Paid and Unpaid Labor

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Legislation has outlawed "child labor" in the United States in various manifestations for decades, yet child labor persists for several reasons and through many different channels. While children no longer work in factories or in other occupations, they still work in family businesses (on farms, in family restaurants, etc.), and less obvious forms of child labor persist in the form of nonprofit fundraisers.

Anyone who has ever been a child in the United States has, in some form or fashion, participated in potentially useful labor for the benefit of some nonprofit organization like a sports league, a church group, or a school. I remember in middle school selling magazine subscriptions for the benefit of my school (and for prizes, like pens and mugs). I sold candy for youth baseball (and got a ticket to a Cincinnati Reds game in the bargain). I sold stationery to win a fishing tackle box. I washed cars for the National Honor Society. I sold fruit for the marching band. Et cetera. But I wasn't "paid" for these efforts in the usual sense.

Paid and Unpaid Labor - Art Carden - Mises Institute

 

[Ravi]

I always hated the school candy sales but I'll admit my kids were employed in the family business since they were six or seven. Great way to put aside money for college and there are strict rules to follow about hours, duties performed, etc.

Not quite the same thing as working on the factory floor for twelve hours a day.

 

[Paulie]

I always hated the school candy sales but I'll admit my kids were employed in the family business since they were six or seven. Great way to put aside money for college and there are strict rules to follow about hours, duties performed, etc.

Not quite the same thing as working on the factory floor for twelve hours a day.

Why bother calling it 12? They're not allowed to work ANY.

If a child WANTS to spend a couple hours a day selling candy and is allowed to, why can't they spend a couple hours a day stacking shelves at a warehouse if they WANTED to?

Let's not make distinctions and create double standards. Labor is labor.

 

[alan1]

I had my first official job with a paycheck from a corporation when I was 13. I saved up enough money to buy a decent used car (and could pay insurance) 2 months before I got my drivers license at age 16. I preferred actually earning a paycheck over selling crap for the school fundraisers, boy scouts or 4-H so I could "win" something.

 

[Ravi]

I always hated the school candy sales but I'll admit my kids were employed in the family business since they were six or seven. Great way to put aside money for college and there are strict rules to follow about hours, duties performed, etc.

Not quite the same thing as working on the factory floor for twelve hours a day.

Why bother calling it 12? They're not allowed to work ANY.

If a child WANTS to spend a couple hours a day selling candy and is allowed to, why can't they spend a couple hours a day stacking shelves at a warehouse if they WANTED to?

Let's not make distinctions and create double standards. Labor is labor.

They are allowed to work if it is in the family business. I guess there is some expectation that you won't exploit your own children...

I also think it varies from state to state as to what age you may hold a job. And it is always hard to know if a child WANTS to be a wage slave or if it is only the influence of their parents.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I made all of my pocket money when I was a kid by mowing lawns. In the summer I would makes as much as $60.00 a week. Back in my day, when I was 11 years old, that was really good money. I'd cut grass just about all day and every day except for Sundays. These days I bet you couldn't drag an 11 year old away from the tv video games long enough to make some money because Mama or Daddy will give it to them. So, what's the problem with child labor?

 

[alan1]

I made all of my pocket money when I was a kid by mowing lawns. In the summer I would makes as much as $60.00 a week. Back in my day, when I was 11 years old, that was really good money. I'd cut grass just about all day and every day except for Sundays. These days I bet you couldn't drag an 11 year old away from the tv video games long enough to make some money because Mama or Daddy will give it to them. So, what's the problem with child labor?

But did you cut grass to earn money for buying the kind of grass you smoke?

 

[Big Black Dog]

But did you cut grass to earn money for buying the kind of grass you smoke?

I don't really smoke grass. Tried it once and felt it was way too over rated and not worth the hastle for me to be involved with it. I joke about smoking pot but I haven't smoked but one joint in my entire life and that was back in 1976. I'm much happier with Old Number 7.

 

[alan1]

But did you cut grass to earn money for buying the kind of grass you smoke?

I don't really smoke grass. Tried it once and felt it was way too over rated and not worth the hastle for me to be involved with it. I joke about smoking pot but I haven't smoked but one joint in my entire life and that was back in 1976. I'm much happier with Old Number 7.

Back when I was 13-14, I smoked pot all the time, then I discovered cocaine, it's a wonder I manged to save enough money to buy the Jeep. Don't mess with drugs anymore, and haven't for 20 years.

 

[Paulie]

I always hated the school candy sales but I'll admit my kids were employed in the family business since they were six or seven. Great way to put aside money for college and there are strict rules to follow about hours, duties performed, etc.

Not quite the same thing as working on the factory floor for twelve hours a day.

Why bother calling it 12? They're not allowed to work ANY.

If a child WANTS to spend a couple hours a day selling candy and is allowed to, why can't they spend a couple hours a day stacking shelves at a warehouse if they WANTED to?

Let's not make distinctions and create double standards. Labor is labor.

They are allowed to work if it is in the family business. I guess there is some expectation that you won't exploit your own children...

I also think it varies from state to state as to what age you may hold a job. And it is always hard to know if a child WANTS to be a wage slave or if it is only the influence of their parents.

I guess you'd have to define "exploit" in this particular context. I will certainly make them learn the value of a Dollar via hard work. I won't be throwing them out on the back forty to plow all day, but I'll be teaching them how to work for their own money and appreciate every last Dollar they receive, that's for sure.

We had a yard sale a few weeks ago and our 5 year old daughter (who isn't mine, but I've been raising her for the last 3 years) and her friends set up a water/lemonade stand. They made a nice little profit and she saves every dollar she makes. She's been saving her money since I can remember. The first time she spent any of it was on Easter Sunday, when the tickets for the boardwalk rides are half price. She bought a couple books worth so she could do fun things all summer long.

She has chores around the house, like empty the little waste cans in the bathrooms, and she tidies up the living room on a regular basis. Mostly because the kids have a toy corner in the living room and the majority of living room mess is the kids' anyway. But she enjoys doing any work she can.

I'd like to think that so far, she's on the right track. What I will say though, is that when she hits the legal labor age of 14, she's getting a job. I had one at 14 and so did her mother.

So when you say "exploit", I'm confused.

 

[Ravi]

Why bother calling it 12? They're not allowed to work ANY.

If a child WANTS to spend a couple hours a day selling candy and is allowed to, why can't they spend a couple hours a day stacking shelves at a warehouse if they WANTED to?

Let's not make distinctions and create double standards. Labor is labor.

They are allowed to work if it is in the family business. I guess there is some expectation that you won't exploit your own children...

I also think it varies from state to state as to what age you may hold a job. And it is always hard to know if a child WANTS to be a wage slave or if it is only the influence of their parents.

I guess you'd have to define "exploit" in this particular context. I will certainly make them learn the value of a Dollar via hard work. I won't be throwing them out on the back forty to plow all day, but I'll be teaching them how to work for their own money and appreciate every last Dollar they receive, that's for sure.

We had a yard sale a few weeks ago and our 5 year old daughter (who isn't mine, but I've been raising her for the last 3 years) and her friends set up a water/lemonade stand. They made a nice little profit and she saves every dollar she makes. She's been saving her money since I can remember. The first time she spent any of it was on Easter Sunday, when the tickets for the boardwalk rides are half price. She bought a couple books worth so she could do fun things all summer long.

She has chores around the house, like empty the little waste cans in the bathrooms, and she tidies up the living room on a regular basis. Mostly because the kids have a toy corner in the living room and the majority of living room mess is the kids' anyway. But she enjoys doing any work she can.

I'd like to think that so far, she's on the right track. What I will say though, is that when she hits the legal labor age of 14, she's getting a job. I had one at 14 and so did her mother.

So when you say "exploit", I'm confused.

I didn't mean you would exploit them, Pauli. The government is okay with employing children in the family business therefore IMO the government thinks families won't exploit their children.

 

[Paulie]

They are allowed to work if it is in the family business. I guess there is some expectation that you won't exploit your own children...

I also think it varies from state to state as to what age you may hold a job. And it is always hard to know if a child WANTS to be a wage slave or if it is only the influence of their parents.

I guess you'd have to define "exploit" in this particular context. I will certainly make them learn the value of a Dollar via hard work. I won't be throwing them out on the back forty to plow all day, but I'll be teaching them how to work for their own money and appreciate every last Dollar they receive, that's for sure.

We had a yard sale a few weeks ago and our 5 year old daughter (who isn't mine, but I've been raising her for the last 3 years) and her friends set up a water/lemonade stand. They made a nice little profit and she saves every dollar she makes. She's been saving her money since I can remember. The first time she spent any of it was on Easter Sunday, when the tickets for the boardwalk rides are half price. She bought a couple books worth so she could do fun things all summer long.

She has chores around the house, like empty the little waste cans in the bathrooms, and she tidies up the living room on a regular basis. Mostly because the kids have a toy corner in the living room and the majority of living room mess is the kids' anyway. But she enjoys doing any work she can.

I'd like to think that so far, she's on the right track. What I will say though, is that when she hits the legal labor age of 14, she's getting a job. I had one at 14 and so did her mother.

So when you say "exploit", I'm confused.

I didn't mean you would exploit them, Pauli. The government is okay with employing children in the family business therefore IMO the government thinks families won't exploit their children.

Ok, my mistake. I thought you were being sarcastic and saying that I would exploit them.

I may do everything in my power to get my boy to be a baseball star, though, so he can fund my retirement.

 

[alan1]

Why bother calling it 12? They're not allowed to work ANY.

If a child WANTS to spend a couple hours a day selling candy and is allowed to, why can't they spend a couple hours a day stacking shelves at a warehouse if they WANTED to?

Let's not make distinctions and create double standards. Labor is labor.

They are allowed to work if it is in the family business. I guess there is some expectation that you won't exploit your own children...

I also think it varies from state to state as to what age you may hold a job. And it is always hard to know if a child WANTS to be a wage slave or if it is only the influence of their parents.

I guess you'd have to define "exploit" in this particular context. I will certainly make them learn the value of a Dollar via hard work. I won't be throwing them out on the back forty to plow all day, but I'll be teaching them how to work for their own money and appreciate every last Dollar they receive, that's for sure.

We had a yard sale a few weeks ago and our 5 year old daughter (who isn't mine, but I've been raising her for the last 3 years) and her friends set up a water/lemonade stand. They made a nice little profit and she saves every dollar she makes. She's been saving her money since I can remember. The first time she spent any of it was on Easter Sunday, when the tickets for the boardwalk rides are half price. She bought a couple books worth so she could do fun things all summer long.

She has chores around the house, like empty the little waste cans in the bathrooms, and she tidies up the living room on a regular basis. Mostly because the kids have a toy corner in the living room and the majority of living room mess is the kids' anyway. But she enjoys doing any work she can.

I'd like to think that so far, she's on the right track. What I will say though, is that when she hits the legal labor age of 14, she's getting a job. I had one at 14 and so did her mother.

So when you say "exploit", I'm confused.

I'm not sure where you live, but these days it's mighty difficult for a 14 year old to get a job. At least where I live it is. Nobody would hire either of my daughters until they turned 16.
My oldest applied for work at a camera store a few months before she turned 16. They interviewed her (twice), but didn't hire her. I'm pretty sure it was because of her age, because 2 months after she turned 16 they called her and offered her a job. She was passionate about photography and was consistently number 1, 2 or 3 in sales for the region.

I'm with you on the "exploit" thing. She was doing a job she loved and was successful at it. The 16 year old kid was only working 20 hours a week and out-selling full time employees because she knew her shit and loved what she was doing. She wasn't exploited.

 

[Paulie]

I live in a summer tourist haven. Around here there are more than enough businesses willing to hire a 14 year old. In NJ, 14 is the age of legal labor. That's when you can get your papers.

We have many boardwalks along the various beaches that LOVE hiring young kids. I swear sometimes I see kids that don't even look 14.

After Labor Day, it's a bit tougher. A lot of businesses close up until next season. But for the most part you can grab a job from, say, April all the way until early October. For a 14 year old, that's a lot of money to be made.

 

[alan1]

I live in a summer tourist haven. Around here there are more than enough businesses willing to hire a 14 year old. In NJ, 14 is the age of legal labor. That's when you can get your papers.

We have many boardwalks along the various beaches that LOVE hiring young kids. I swear sometimes I see kids that don't even look 14.

After Labor Day, it's a bit tougher. A lot of businesses close up until next season. But for the most part you can grab a job from, say, April all the way until early October. For a 14 year old, that's a lot of money to be made.

I grew up in a coastal tourist town. Both my sisters and my brother worked in the tourism industry as teenagers. I landed a job that was year round employment. They made more than me during the summers, but I made the same year round which meant I was still earning decent money during the winter.