Oy! Those Crafty Jews!

[georgephillip]

Unlike Biden I do not believe leftists 'truths' that are not supported by facts.



Did Jews take Israel away from Palestinians? - The Jewish Federation of Sarasota-Manatee
Did Jews take Israel away from Palestinians?
December 8, 2020 | 2020 Blog Archive, CRConnect | 5 comments

By David Millstone

QUESTION:
The Palestinians were in Israel first, then it was flooded with European Jews from the Holocaust. I have sympathy for someone fleeing the Holocaust, but they shouldn’t be able to just take over someone else’s land, should they?

ANSWER:
The statement and question posed above may be something you hear from those who believe the Jews creation of the State of Israel constituted an act of colonialism – an act of taking political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, displacing its indigenous people, and exploiting it economically.
Consider the historic inaccuracies in the statement and question above:

• It is inaccurate to say Arab Palestinians lived there first.
• Jews have lived on the land of Israel continuously for almost 4,000 years.
• The land of Israel is the birthplace of the Jewish people. Approximately 4,000 years ago, Abraham moved to the land of Israel where he lived with his family, raised his children and purchased land to bury his wife and himself.
• After Abraham came Isaac and Jacob. Jacob, who was named Israel by God, had twelve sons whose families became the 12 Tribes of Israel.
• Approximately 3,000 years ago, the Jews established a monarchy in the land that includes Israel, Gaza, the West Bank (Judaea and Samaria), the Golan Heights, parts of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. (See the map below)

The map above shows the lands occupied by the 12 Tribes at the time of the unification by King Saul.

• 200 years later Alexander the Great and Greeks conquered the Persians and the Jews continued to live in Jerusalem and Israel under Greek rule.
• The Romans occupied Jerusalem and Israel in the first century BCE. The Jews revolted against Roman Rule about 130 years later during what became known as the First Jewish Revolt. In response, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple (70 CE). Many Jews were slaughtered by the Romans and most left the country, but some Jews remained. The Romans renamed Judea “Palaestina” in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land. It was from that point forward land became known as Palestine.
• It was not until 622 CE that the Muslim religion was established by Mohammed in Mecca in what is today Saudi Arabia.
• Caliph Umar was a contemporary of Mohammed and began conquering non-Arabian lands, including Palestine, around 636 CE. Jews were permitted to reenter Jerusalem and settled around the Western Wall. However, over the next 400+ years, Jews suffered under Caliphate rule.
• Christian Crusaders conquered Palestine in 1099, slaughtering both Jews and Muslims.
• After 200 years under Christian rule where non-Christians, including Jews and Muslims suffered, the Mamluks began rule of the area. During the Mamluk era there was a decline of towns and commerce and of Jewish communities.
• In 1517 the Ottomans took over control of Palestine and there was a further decline of the land, but an increasing Jewish population.
• During World War I, in 1917, the British took over control of Palestine and the British Mandate for Palestine (discussed further below) was established in 1922.
• Maps from the 19th and early 20th century of “Palestine” demonstrate Palestine was seen historically connected to Jews. This VIDEO shows various maps through time recognizing that the term Palestine applies to the Jewish nature of Palestine from well before the Ottoman Empire.
• From the timeline above, it is clear that Jews preceded both Arabs and Muslims in Palestine by 2600 years if measured from the time of Abraham or by at least 1600 years if measured from the establishment of Kingdom of Israel.
• It is inaccurate to say Jews are interlopers into the Middle East and that they only came to the land after the Holocaust. While Jews were dispersed from the Middle East at various times, Jews have lived continuously in the Land of Israel, including through Babylonian, Persian, Roman, Byzantine, Muslim and Crusader rule.
• Large Jewish populations were established in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century BCE and in other cities throughout Palestine by the eleventh century.
• Crusaders massacred Jews in the 12th century and the Jewish population rebounded over the next two centuries.
• By the fourteenth century when Israel fell under Muslim rule, there were Jewish communities in at least thirty cities, including Haifa, Hebron, Gaza, Jerusalem and Safed.

You didn't answer my question:

How much land did the Jews of Palestine lose in 1948 compared to how much land they stole?

 

[rosends]

^^^ this antisemite thinks that any decent person who doesn’t want Iranian terrorists to murder 7 million Jews in one fell swoop must be from Tel Aviv.

someone should explain that the cost of living in TA is very high and more likely, someone would be from Herzeliya.

 

[teddyearp]

It seems democrats and leftists cannot see the atrocities committed by Jew haters.

Democrats, leftists, aka fascists when confronted with the truth:

 

[teddyearp]

Jewish land ownership in Palestine prior to 1948 seems better documented than the confused, vague or limited documentation of various Arabs and other alleged land owners.



Who owned the land in Palestine prior to 1948
https://www.usmessageboard.com/javascript:void(0)

1. 
   

   Before 1948, land in Palestine was predominantly owned by Arab individuals and families, with Jewish ownership accounting for a small but significant portion, documented through Ottoman and British Mandate legal systems.​

   Overview of Land Ownership​

   Prior to 1948, the majority of land in Palestine was held by Arab peasants (fellahin), absentee landlords, and religious endowments (Waqf), while Jewish land ownership was limited but strategically concentrated. By 1945, Jewish buyers legally owned approximately 5.67% of the Mandate’s total land area, increasing to 6.6% by the end of 1947 through purchases by private individuals and organizations such as the Jewish National Fund and the Palestine Land Development Company Wikipedia. These purchases were often concentrated in the coastal plains, the Jezreel Valley, and parts of Galilee Wikipedia.
   
   

   Ottoman and British Legal Frameworks​

   Under Ottoman rule, land ownership was regulated through the 1858 Land Code, which required registration of land titles (Tapu). Many Palestinian peasants lacked formal deeds, relying on traditional claims, which sometimes led to dispossession due to taxation, debt, or absentee landlords myjli.com. During the British Mandate (1920–1948), land transactions were formally recorded, and Jewish organizations legally acquired land through purchase agreements, often transforming previously uncultivated or underutilized areas into agricultural settlements jordandaily.net+1.
   
   

   Jewish Land Purchases​

   Jewish land acquisition began in the late 19th century, primarily by Ashkenazi immigrants, and continued through the early 20th century. Notable transactions, such as the Sursock Purchases, involved large estates in the Jezreel Valley and Haifa Bay, sometimes resulting in the eviction of Arab tenants Wikipedia. By 1948, Jews had purchased roughly 2 million dunams, forming the territorial nucleus for the future state of Israel israeled.org. Despite claims that Arabs owned 94% of the land, historical research shows that this figure is misleading, as much land was state-owned, uncultivated, or held by absentee landlords israeled.org.
   
   

   Palestinian Land Documentation​

   Extensive archives, such as the Bseiso Family Archive, preserve pre-1948 Palestinian land ownership records, including Hijjeh deeds, Ottoman tax records, maps, and surveys. These documents demonstrate that Palestinians maintained legal ownership and cultivated land under a functioning legal system, even amid colonial governance jordandaily.net+1. The archives provide evidence of both local and absentee Arab landowners, showing that land ownership was complex and not solely concentrated in the hands of a few.
   
   

   Conclusion​

   Before 1948, Palestine’s land ownership was a mix of Arab peasant holdings, absentee landlords, Waqf lands, and a small but growing Jewish-owned portion. Jewish land purchases were legally documented and strategically located, while Palestinian land ownership was maintained through Ottoman and Mandate legal systems. The historical record, supported by archival evidence, highlights the nuanced and legally structured nature of land tenure in pre-1948 Palestine Wikipedia+2.

You forgot to mention that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on the one hand actually facilitated the sale of Arab owned lands to the Jewish Agency, while on the other hand started to foment violence against the Jews. Hmm, maybe HE wanted to steal from the Jews. You know, sell the land to them, then kill them all and take it back.

 

[teddyearp]

Opinions are like pills in unlabeled bottles - they may be good or bad.

Just an FYI. I am on the same side as you, may want to look at my posting history to find the label on the pill bottle bud.

 

[teddyearp]

• At the time of the Ottoman conquest in the early sixteenth century, 200 years later, Jews lived in Jerusalem, Nablus, Hebron, Safed and in many Galilean villages.
• Jews in the Diaspora began to return to Israel in 1770 from Eastern Europe. Many Jews, also, left Eastern Europe in the late 18th and early 19th centuries in order to pray and die in the four sacred cities of the Holy Land: Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron.
• According to a British census in 1864, Jews constituted a majority of the population of Jerusalem. In 1875, an Ottoman census of Jerusalem confirmed the Jewish majority in Jerusalem and another in 1905 showed Jews represented two-thirds of the Jerusalem population.

<snip>

That is another thing. There were Jews returning en masse to the area known as Palestine well before Theodor Hertzel put a name to it in 1897.

 

[teddyearp]

Yes and they are easy to spot and their posts have no credibility . They already lost so whats the point

Yup. And there it is, what is the point of debating with these obvious paid trolls. I find it interesting to see so many one sided posts that fill up pages as I have those who just keep parroting the same script over and over again on ignore.

 

[gipper]

You didn't answer my question:

Mossad trained agents never answer such questions.

 

[gipper]

You just keep thinking that. Already it is clear that your grasp of English is tenuous so your clinging to an inaccurate word is totally in character.

Hey this will make your day!!!

 

[markef]

Jews have been doing all the annihilating in Palestine since 1948:

Are you saying Palestinians have not murdered innocent Jews in more than 70 years? Really? The Jews are doing ALL the killing? Do you know how stupid such a false statement is?

 

[markef]

You didn't answer my question:

What is your question? Tell me again when and how the Palestinians first became owners of the land and how Jews supposedly begin stealing their lands.

 

[Moonglow]

Oy! Those Crafty Jews

Antisemitism is an ancient concept which has just now moved back above the fold.

www.americanthinker.com

I place this post here, in Current Events, because expressing hatred for Jews is in the news a lot these days. Hating on Jews has been a favorite pastime for many a folk with grievance for quite a long time. The last really big anti-Jew movement was back during the 1930s and 1940s. But then Hitler screwed it up by taking it too far. Today's Jew hatred is based upon the Muslim model. Since it has gotten really ramped up, you now see all sorts of Jew hatred crawling out of the woodwork, both from the right and the left. A lot of folks out there just PLAIN HATE THE JEWS!

I have long espoused the theory that the term "Zionism" is a dog-whistle for anti-Semitism. It is code. You will read people condemning Zionism vehemently, then ridiculously arguing that it does not equate to antisemitism. Then, if you disagree with them and their objections to so-called "Zionism", the claim "Well, you just don't understand, man...". In all of their morass of pseudo-intellectual garbage there are 2 facts. First, the people who espouse anti-Zionism are either (a) Muslims who want to violently murder all Jews, or (b) antisemitic bigots. Second, the non-muslim antisemitic bigots' intellectual capacity is right on par with the run-of-the-mill conspiratorialist. Sure, such a person may be "intelligent" in some form. But they are too goofy to know their limitations or too brain-fried to discipline their work with logic.

What is Zionism? It essentially is a broad notion that Jews have a right to a homeland and self-determination free of those people who want to murder them. In fact, the UN agreed with them in 1947 and recognized Israel as the Jewish state. This entire idea is not knew. For example, Russia has been barbarically invaded for centuries. As a result, they like to have a buffer around them. Most recently with the Soviet Union, the used the Eastern European countries (the spoils of Stalin's campaign to destroy the Nazis). Even today you see the tendency in Putin to want to buffer Russia's borders. Likewise, the Jews desired a peaceful existence, secure from all of the antisemitic violence that had stalked them for centuries. Thus, in theory, this is pretty sound thinking and quite rational.
What about Zionism in practice? What, if any, non-Jews are disadvantaged by Israel's Zionism? In my opinion, nobody worth a damn is affected. Essentially, you have the descendants of nomadic Arabs in the Gaza, the West Bank, and Golan Heights. These people want to violently murder all Jews and their children. Why? Are they just a wee bit miffed over Zionistic dislocation? If so, then today's antizionists may have some degree of a point. However, anti-Jewish hatred and violence long predates Zionism. They hate the Jews. Period.

Gazans essentially had self-rule over Gaza a couple of years ago when Hamas sent murderers across their border and into Israel to murder, rape, and kidnap innocents. Reprisal for Zionism? I think not. The fact is that the so-called Palestinian people could have had their own sovereign state YEARS AGO (under Arafat) had they simply played ball. But they did not. They allowed themselves to fall victim to their hatred of Jews and largely lost the opportunity, and all because they refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist (which every nation-state on Earth already acknowledged). Instead, they were necessarily subjected to Israeli security actions. They were not oppressed by Israel at this time. But Hamas had proven itself to be so dangerous and irrational that Israel had to take action. It would have been malfeasance if they did not act to protect themselves.

As I previously mentioned, there are 2 types of people who rant about Zionism. First, there are the Jew-hating muslims. They are a lost cause. No rehabilitation for them is possible as a group. Then there are the non-muslim goof balls. I wonder about these people. What kind of nitwit, in light of the facts I set forth herein and the modern history of this region, can actually rant at Israel over Zionism. Are they completely stupid? I will say this: When these people are confronted with fact and educated argument, they (1) get angry, thereby exposing and irrational bias; and (2) resort to the simplistic mantra "Zionism". The term "Zionism" itself is quite open to interpretation. Does the term genuinely include all the mischief alleged by the antizionists, or are they misusing, and abusing the term, to justify their anti-Semitic bigotry?

Think about this. Who benefits from anti-Zionism? The so-called Palestinians people, who are led by Hamas, a violent Jihadist terror group. Why is Hamas leading the Palestinian people (at least, in Gaza)" Because the "Palestinian" people want them to lead. Are the West Bank Arabs any better off under the PA? They do tend to be a little more tightly wrapped. But they are just as giddy about murdering Jews. These people would gladly blow up and otherwise murder Christians, gays, women, whatever does not comport to their beliefs. They are not good people. They are not civilized. They are not democratic. They are a bunch of Fred Flintstones. Even other Arab countries do not want them. THIS IS WHO YOU ANTI-ZIONIST PEOPLE ARE ALIGNING YOURSELVES WITH. That is DISGUSTING.

Anything that diminishes Israel's right to defend its people, even with the strictest interpretation of Zionism you want to give it, is asking Israel to sacrifice some of its own people. I can think of little more than is more anti-Semitic than this, other than gas chambers and ovens. Therein lies the rub. With each and every one of you antizionist ding-dongs out there, the result of you getting your way is that there will be more dead Jews. And you clearly do not have a problem with this.

The Jews had zero problem with having Jesus killed.

 

[markef]

You forgot to mention that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on the one hand actually facilitated the sale of Arab owned lands to the Jewish Agency, while on the other hand started to foment violence against the Jews. Hmm, maybe HE wanted to steal from the Jews. You know, sell the land to them, then kill them all and take it back.

I am not seeing universal acknowledgement and acceptance of the original 2 state borders established by the British in 1948.

 

[rosends]

The Jews had zero problem with having Jesus killed.

only if you accept the error filled gospels as an accurate historical text. But if you want that to be your driving impetus towards developing an attitude towards Jews, at least you are being open about tapping into the old "deicide" charge.

 

[Moonglow]

only if you accept the error filled gospels as an accurate historical text. But if you want that to be your driving impetus towards developing an attitude towards Jews, at least you are being open about tapping into the old "deicide" charge.

I have no bad feelings towards anyone based on their race or religion. I can't; I am a Christian. The Jews were part of the story, just as the Gentiles and other cultures acted the same towards the disciples. It was all part of God's plan.

 

[rosends]

I have no bad feelings towards anyone based on their race or religion. I can't; I am a Christian. The Jews were part of the story, just as the Gentiles and other cultures acted the same towards the disciples. It was all part of God's plan.

but your statement about "the Jews" is relying on a non-historical account.

 

[gipper]

Are you saying Palestinians have not murdered innocent Jews in more than 70 years? Really? The Jews are doing ALL the killing? Do you know how stupid such a false statement is?

The killing is very lop sided. You know this first hand. You live there.

 

[OldFlame]

Are you saying Palestinians have not murdered innocent Jews in more than 70 years? Really? The Jews are doing ALL the killing? Do you know how stupid such a false statement is?

That's the problem with Jew haters, if you truly had an unbiased view of the entire situation, you would be blaming the muzzies just as much, if not more, for the entire situation. The fact that they only focus on Israel's behavior while ignoring all of the invading muzzie's behavior tells the entire story about them. They're just too stupid to realize it.

 

[gipper]

That's the problem with Jew haters, if you truly had an unbiased view of the entire situation, you would be blaming the muzzies just as much, if not more, for the entire situation. The fact that they only focus on Israel's behavior while ignoring all of the invading muzzie's behavior tells the entire story about them. They're just too stupid to realize it.

Opposing Israel’s genocide and constant warring is hardly antisemitic.

It is projection by fools like you. You want Muslims murdered while condemning anyone who opposes your inhumanity.

You are the antisemite. You really want the real Semites of the ME murdered to benefit Israel. CRAZY!!!!

 

[georgephillip]

Mossad trained agents never answer such questions.

As proven for at least the last half-century:

"WASHINGTON, June 4-(1986) Relations between United States and Israeli intelligence agencies are normally marked by intimate cooperation.

"But the guilty plea today by Jonathan Jay Pollard, combined with the naming of four Israeli officials as co-conspirators who were not indicted, underlines another facet of the relationship: When the interests of the two nations diverge, they spy on each other. By all indications."

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP90-00965R000807260012-9.pdf