Our federal union --- it must be preserved

[Unkotare]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Think of the wealth that was squandered fighting the war and the wealth that could have been raised by taxing 650,000 dead soldiers who fell in the prime of their working lives. That wealth could have been used to buy slaves from the slaveholders and ship them back to the lands of their ancestors.

America today would be so much wealthier by a.) not having the economic/welfare/crime drag of the black community and b.) benefiting from the economic benefits produced by those 650,000 fallen soldiers and their UNBORN descendants compounded over the generations.

 

[Unkotare]

From the moment the first drop of ink was placed on the Declaration of Independence, a reckoning over slavery was all but an inevitability.

 

[gipper]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

Nobody said anything about a new civil war; some of us just don't believe we need to be a huge country.

And if anyone does not accept our political process, it is the traitors that want to "fundamentally transform America" by running roughshod over the Constitution, like the present criminal regime.

Running roughshod over the constitution is defined by overthrowing or abolishing it by secession. Treason, thy name is secession?

Lincoln committed treason by waging war against Americans.



Modern historians often accuse the South of treason, even though they were exercising what most people at that time viewed as a legitimate constitutional right, the states right of secession. At the same time they ignore actions by President Lincoln. The specific language of Article 3 Section 3 of the Constitution defining treason seems perfectly explicit.

Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

The Founding Fathers viewed the states as free, sovereign and independent entities. The Lincoln invasion of the South would seem to clearly fall within the definition of treason as defined in that Article. Lincoln ’s actions stood as a bold repudiation of our Founding Fathers and constituted the very essence of despotism as would have been seen through the eyes of Jefferson and Madison. Lincoln ’s provocation at Ft. Sumter worked and jump started the nation into a fratricidal war.

Lincoln s Treason - Commentary by Bragdon Bowling

 

[Rotagilla]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

that's quite an imagination you have....Reaching "conclusions" based on fantasy scenarios you invented out of thin air...

maybe no one will notice, though....

 

[Rotagilla]

I think these southern Conservatives are traitors for considering plunging this nation into civil war 150 years after the issue was decided. No patriotic American would entertain secession as an alternative to our accepted political process.

Would these neo-secessionists bring back slavery, or would they mask that by calling for no minimum wage? It is a lead pipe cinch that they would be active eroding personal freedom for groups and classes they just hate. Women's rights would disappear, the thought of marriage equality would be a punishable crime, the environment would degrade to the point they soon would seek expert help in correcting their mistakes. Children would be pressed into work because they would not receive an adequate education. Those kids would be forced to believe the Genisis myth and science classes would disappear.

There are no virtues in secession, only vices.

Nobody said anything about a new civil war; some of us just don't believe we need to be a huge country.

And if anyone does not accept our political process, it is the traitors that want to "fundamentally transform America" by running roughshod over the Constitution, like the present criminal regime.

Running roughshod over the constitution is defined by overthrowing or abolishing it by secession. Treason, thy name is secession?

You don't get to make up new definitions of words...

Secession doesn't have anything to do with "running roughshod" or "overthrowing" or "abolishing" anything...It means "withdrawing".

The south tried to peacefully withdraw...but lincoln had to have his war and invaded the south. Patriots always rise up against invaders.

This nation was founded by secessionists who wanted to peacefully withdraw from england. When england refused them the right of self government, the peaceful secessionists became "revolutionaries" and thus our country was born...

I guess to you revisionists the colonists were "traitors" and "treasonous"...We still call them patriots, though

 

[Rotagilla]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Slavery was a fading practice anyway..even the leaders of the south knew it would end eventually..the industrial revolution was occurring and machines are easier and cheaper to maintain than farm animals.

Lincoln said in Congress in 1848;

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can may revolutionize and make their own of so many of the territory as they inhabit."



The lying POS also said in his first inaugural address;


Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern States, that by the accession of a Republican Administration, their property, and their peace, and personal security, are to be endangered.

There has never been any reasonable cause for such apprehension. Indeed, the most ample evidence to the contrary has all the while existed, and been open to their inspection. It is found in nearly all the published speeches of him who now addresses you

I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this, and many similar declarations, and had never recanted them. And more than this, they placed in the platform, for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves, and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes."

I now reiterate these sentiments; and in doing so, I only press upon the public attention the most conclusive evidence of which the case is susceptible, that the property, peace and security of no section are to be in any wise endangered by the now incoming Administration. I add too, that all the protection which, consistently with the Constitution and the laws, can be given, will be cheerfully given to all the States when lawfully demanded, for whatever cause -- as cheerfully to one section as to another.

 

[Unkotare]

The so-called 'Confederates' fired the first shots, not the Union. Too many apologists for the traitors who would destroy our country and kill any number of good men on behalf, ultimately, of an evil institution.

 

[Rotagilla]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Think of the wealth that was squandered fighting the war and the wealth that could have been raised by taxing 650,000 dead soldiers who fell in the prime of their working lives. That wealth could have been used to buy slaves from the slaveholders and ship them back to the lands of their ancestors.

America today would be so much wealthier by a.) not having the economic/welfare/crime drag of the black community and b.) benefiting from the economic benefits produced by those 650,000 fallen soldiers and their UNBORN descendants compounded over the generations.

importing slaves was absolutely THE worst mistake this nation ever made...

 

[jillian]

I just with the Yankees would kick us out.

Those left could love us or leave us.

We keep our share of the nukes though, the South will never be a Ukraine.

the south owes the north a boatload of money since we've carried you for pretty much .... ever.

I think Lincoln may have done us a disservice keeping the union together. but enemies of this country shouldn't get nukes.

now run along like a good little neo-confederate insurrectionist.

 

[Nosmo King]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Think of the wealth that was squandered fighting the war and the wealth that could have been raised by taxing 650,000 dead soldiers who fell in the prime of their working lives. That wealth could have been used to buy slaves from the slaveholders and ship them back to the lands of their ancestors.

America today would be so much wealthier by a.) not having the economic/welfare/crime drag of the black community and b.) benefiting from the economic benefits produced by those 650,000 fallen soldiers and their UNBORN descendants compounded over the generations.

importing slaves was absolutely THE worst mistake this nation ever made...

Are you implying domestically produced slaves would be a better system?

 

[Rotagilla]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Think of the wealth that was squandered fighting the war and the wealth that could have been raised by taxing 650,000 dead soldiers who fell in the prime of their working lives. That wealth could have been used to buy slaves from the slaveholders and ship them back to the lands of their ancestors.

America today would be so much wealthier by a.) not having the economic/welfare/crime drag of the black community and b.) benefiting from the economic benefits produced by those 650,000 fallen soldiers and their UNBORN descendants compounded over the generations.

importing slaves was absolutely THE worst mistake this nation ever made...

Are you implying domestically produced slaves would be a better system?

You're hilarious. A regular comedian.

 

[Nosmo King]

The dirty little secret is that the Union would have been preserved and a half million lives would have been saved and slavery would have ended if Lincoln decided to bow out and not run for reelection.

Think of the wealth that was squandered fighting the war and the wealth that could have been raised by taxing 650,000 dead soldiers who fell in the prime of their working lives. That wealth could have been used to buy slaves from the slaveholders and ship them back to the lands of their ancestors.

America today would be so much wealthier by a.) not having the economic/welfare/crime drag of the black community and b.) benefiting from the economic benefits produced by those 650,000 fallen soldiers and their UNBORN descendants compounded over the generations.

importing slaves was absolutely THE worst mistake this nation ever made...

Are you implying domestically produced slaves would be a better system?

You're hilarious. A regular comedian.

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

 

[Rotagilla]

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

Oh...word games, then?..I see..

Well let's look closely then....See, there's your problem..it's so obvious.... everything you typed after the word "importing" is distortion and fantasy you invented in your own mind and are trying to transfer to me.

You perceive yourself as clever, don't you?

 

[Nosmo King]

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

Oh...word games, then?..I see..

Well let's look closely then....See, there's your problem..it's so obvious.... everything you typed after the word "importing" is distortion and fantasy you invented in your own mind and are trying to transfer to me.

You perceive yourself as clever, don't you?

You implied, I inferred. Given your warped and anachronistic attitude about all things historic, I do not see my inference as out of bounds.

 

[Rotagilla]

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

Oh...word games, then?..I see..

Well let's look closely then....See, there's your problem..it's so obvious.... everything you typed after the word "importing" is distortion and fantasy you invented in your own mind and are trying to transfer to me.

You perceive yourself as clever, don't you?

You implied, I inferred. Given your warped and anachronistic attitude about all things historic, I do not see my inference as out of bounds.

I implied nothing. You're responsible for your own imagination and actually knowing the definitions of words when you challenge someone.

I "PRESUMED" that a mature adult would know the definition of the word "importing" and not try to derail the thread playing word games and dispensing sly ad homs.
Here ya go;
Importing Define Importing at Dictionary.com

"IMPORT"
[v. im-pawrt, -pohrt; n. im-pawrt, -pohrt]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

verb (used with object)
1.
to bring in (merchandise, commodities, workers, etc.) from a foreign country for use, sale, processing, reexport, or services.


....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

 

[Nosmo King]

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

Oh...word games, then?..I see..

Well let's look closely then....See, there's your problem..it's so obvious.... everything you typed after the word "importing" is distortion and fantasy you invented in your own mind and are trying to transfer to me.

You perceive yourself as clever, don't you?

You implied, I inferred. Given your warped and anachronistic attitude about all things historic, I do not see my inference as out of bounds.

I implied nothing. You're responsible for your own imagination and actually knowing the definitions of words when you challenge someone.

I "PRESUMED" that a mature adult would know the definition of the word "importing" and not try to derail the thread playing word games and dispensing sly ad homs.
Here ya go;
Importing Define Importing at Dictionary.com

"IMPORT"
[v. im-pawrt, -pohrt; n. im-pawrt, -pohrt]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

verb (used with object)
1.
to bring in (merchandise, commodities, workers, etc.) from a foreign country for use, sale, processing, reexport, or services.


....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

"Slavery was the worst mistake this country ever made." Notice how I avoided qualifiers such as 'importing'?

They taught me that in grade school. Perhaps a remedial course is available in your area.

 

[Rotagilla]

I asked the obvious question due to the way you worded your post. You included the word "importing" as if that qualifier made the difference between what you might regard as justified slavery as opposed to what society thinks slavery is.

Oh...word games, then?..I see..

Well let's look closely then....See, there's your problem..it's so obvious.... everything you typed after the word "importing" is distortion and fantasy you invented in your own mind and are trying to transfer to me.

You perceive yourself as clever, don't you?

You implied, I inferred. Given your warped and anachronistic attitude about all things historic, I do not see my inference as out of bounds.

I implied nothing. You're responsible for your own imagination and actually knowing the definitions of words when you challenge someone.

I "PRESUMED" that a mature adult would know the definition of the word "importing" and not try to derail the thread playing word games and dispensing sly ad homs.
Here ya go;
Importing Define Importing at Dictionary.com

"IMPORT"
[v. im-pawrt, -pohrt; n. im-pawrt, -pohrt]

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

verb (used with object)
1.
to bring in (merchandise, commodities, workers, etc.) from a foreign country for use, sale, processing, reexport, or services.


....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

"Slavery was the worst mistake this country ever made." Notice how I avoided qualifiers such as 'importing'?

They taught me that in grade school. Perhaps a remedial course is available in your area.

....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.


Get it yet?


....so like I said importing slaves was THE worst mistake this country ever made.

 

[PratchettFan]

Why?

It is a good question someone else raised on another thread. Lincoln is revered for saving the Union -- at the cost of 650,000 lives and destruction of the South where most farmers owned no slaves nor understood the arcane arguments of John Calhoun for nullification or states' rights.

The North had textile mills dependent on cotton and, despite the abolitionist movement, was probably more racist than the few in the South who owned slaves. The ''copperheads,'' therefore, sympathized with the South for economic reasons. A flood of freed slaves to the North willing to work in factories for lower pay was not welcome.

The North had industry and trade; the South, as Rhett Butler said, had nothing but cotton and arrogance. The South needed the North more than the North needed the South. Our Civil War may well have been unnecessary.

I invite thoughts and opinions on this topic.

This really is nothing more than fantasy. There is not a single legislature in the entire country which is even considering doing this, let alone a movement for it. This is not 1863. Not even close.