Opt Out of Obamacare with Health Shares (3 companies referred to me)

[Arianrhod]

After considering the 199 plan under liberty health shares, I decided to go with least cost I found
which was the $45.00 / month under Christian Health Care Ministries.

Because this whole ACA mandate and fine/penalty system, that doesn't treat all choices equally,
violates my Constitutionally beliefs,
I could not by conscience register with the exchange, including not applying for exemptions under that system,
nor could I afford either a regular health care insurance plan or the closest equivalent under these health share memberships.

The cheapest I could find to get by is 45.00 a month x 10 or 11 months.
I don't believe in paying a fine for not choosing
from these very limited options approved under ACA.

But I picked the cheapest way that counts toward being exempted
to avoid having to fight paying a fine which would cost more to fight over.

I don't have time or money to contest this infringement,
but 45 a month is the minimal imposition I could find
that doesn't require me to register for things I don't believe federal govt has the authority to mandate
for individual citizens under threat of penalty.

Did you make sure your doctor(s) and the local hospitals will accept this plan?

 

[emilynghiem]

After considering the 199 plan under liberty health shares, I decided to go with least cost I found
which was the $45.00 / month under Christian Health Care Ministries.

Because this whole ACA mandate and fine/penalty system, that doesn't treat all choices equally,
violates my Constitutionally beliefs,
I could not by conscience register with the exchange, including not applying for exemptions under that system,
nor could I afford either a regular health care insurance plan or the closest equivalent under these health share memberships.

The cheapest I could find to get by is 45.00 a month x 10 or 11 months.
I don't believe in paying a fine for not choosing
from these very limited options approved under ACA.

But I picked the cheapest way that counts toward being exempted
to avoid having to fight paying a fine which would cost more to fight over.

I don't have time or money to contest this infringement,
but 45 a month is the minimal imposition I could find
that doesn't require me to register for things I don't believe federal govt has the authority to mandate
for individual citizens under threat of penalty.

Did you make sure your doctor(s) and the local hospitals will accept this plan?

1. I don't expect to use this plan to pay any bills since the deductible is 5,000. it's the same as paying myself,
since I believe in paying for my own health care myself anyway (with or without using insurance which someone else may buy for me if I can't afford). I will also continue to promote and develop proposals for more effective sustainable health programs to help more people, such as by reforming prisons, VA and mental health systems.

I believe it is up to people to fix that on a local level that is effective, prove what solutions work, and propose the best as models for govt reform to follow -- NOT vice versa. The govt should not abused to impose an unproven proposal, and force taxpayers to fund and follow it; it should be the other way, prove what works first, and then people will naturally choose and follow what is more effective, beneficial and sustainable for more people.

2. This membership is just the minimum to avoid the hassle of a penalty and messing with whatever choices under the exchanges I don't believe are authorized anyway.

 

[hadit]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

 

[dblack]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

atheism is just as much a religion as any other religion.
Atheists have a faith based belief that there is no God, those with religion have an equally strong Faith that there is.

 

[hadit]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

There shouldn't be a need for exemptions in the first place. People should be free to choose whether they want to buy health insurance, belong to an organization like this, or not have it at all.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

There shouldn't be a need for exemptions in the first place. People should be free to choose whether they want to buy health insurance, belong to an organization like this, or not have it at all.

I agree, and there should be no requirement for care givers to treat for free if people dont have the intellect to provide for themselves.

 

[dblack]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

atheism is just as much a religion as any other religion.
Atheists have a faith based belief that there is no God, those with religion have an equally strong Faith that there is.

That's an entirely different argument. Suffice it to say, there are different opinions on the matter. Let's just agree no one should get special exemptions. That's not the point of freedom of religion in the first place.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

atheism is just as much a religion as any other religion.
Atheists have a faith based belief that there is no God, those with religion have an equally strong Faith that there is.

That's an entirely different argument. Suffice it to say, there are different opinions on the matter. Let's just agree no one should get special exemptions. That's not the point of freedom of religion in the first place.

I agree completely, nobody should get special exemptions for any reason.
churches should pay taxes just like any other business, because basically if you look at the catholic church, it is a business. Same with abortion clinics, no exemptions and not government funding, poor people the same, no exemptions or special funding.
we should all pay the same percentage of tax regardless of how we choose to spend it. no mortgage deductions or health deductions for anyone.
no more deductions for charitable contributions either. We need to become a country that is build by people standing on their own and supporting and directing their own lives. Not a country full of exemptions and safety nets.

 

[jillian]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

G-d will provide her with health insurance.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.
at least you can be honest about it. There was nothing wrong with the industry before the government fucked it all up with the unaffordable care act.
Hey, but at least as a guy I know Im covered for an abortion should I ever need one.

 

[Arianrhod]

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.

No.

Medicaid provides coverage for people who are unemployed.

It also provides coverage for people in certain categories who are employed.

COBRA offers [often prohibitive] coverage to people who are between jobs.

The PPACA provides access to coverage for everyone else whose employer does not offer them coverage.

The reason so many of you are so angry is because you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[dblack]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.
at least you can be honest about it....

If that's all it did, it wouldn't disgust me so much. If it were merely an expansion of the welfare state, I wouldn't consider it treasonous.

The problem with ACA isn't that it redistributes wealth to those in need. The problem is that it funnels everything through corporate insurance, ensuring that they get their cut first. That's why it was passed in Congress. The only reason.

 

[Care4all]

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Are the premiums for these "health share memberships" (I wonder if y'all realize they're co-ops?) higher than they would be for a policy with an established insurer through the marketplace sites?

Arianrhod
It depends on your income level.
For many people the health shares are cheaper.
But limits on coverage as BULLDOG pointed out.

I was looking at either the 199 monthly membership under Liberty with the one time set up fee
and 75 annual membership after that. with 1,000,000 one million dollar coverage and 500 deductible,
or figure out what is the lowest option under Medi-Shares to compare which is cheaper monthly.

Or the lowest 45 a month Bronze plan under the CHM but they charge higher set up fees
and it has a 5,000 deductible per incident.

I was just looking to get by with the minimal to not pay fines until this mandate is removed
that violates Constitutional standards and beliefs.

But if I am going to pay money into any such program, I would want to invest in groups that would agree to expand to manage facilities for medical/nursing training, internships, and residencies to serve the public. If companies are willing to apply resources toward creating sustainable health services, I would want to invest my dollars there. The spiritual healing I would ask to research and provide there, in order to reduce costs as much as possible and serve the maximum people for free or low cost, could not be required through govt (except possibly in criminal cases), but it can be offered through private programs freely chosen by the public.

Emily, please try this on the exchange.....enter all of your personal information that they ask for to give you an estimate, but instead of choosing a Bronze plan, choose the cheapest Silver plan you can find and check that..... it may appear to be more expensive than the Bronze Plan on the surface....

Anyway, if your income is low, you will qualify for additional help.... it is called Cost Sharing Reductions.... this is in addition to the insurance premium help, (the subsidy). This govt cost sharing reduction, is not available with any other Insurance plan, than the plans at the Silver level, it will not show up on your Bronze plan selections...or even a Gold or platimum plan selection, only the Silver Plan.

If you qualify for the additional Cost Sharing Reduction, the government comes in and pays for all (if you make little money) or in the least, most of this plan's deductibles, and out of pocket expenses, as mentioned, in addition to the subsidy helping with the insurance monthly premium...

Please just try this...if you have limited income, this could be the best for you....getting full health care coverage, with no or low deductibles and out of pocket expense, and also with free annual doctor visits, and as little as $10-$30 for copays on your other doctor visits...

You have to look out for yourself Emily, and this could be best for you.

At least check it out Em, even if you choose not to go with this Silver plan with cost sharing reductions, at least you would have all of your options available, including the other religious exempt plans outside of the ACA, to compare.

 

[emilynghiem]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

Are they not capable of setting up their own similar organizations?

Not under the special rights set-aside for religions, which is the key to the exemption.

There shouldn't be a need for exemptions in the first place. People should be free to choose whether they want to buy health insurance, belong to an organization like this, or not have it at all.

I agree, and there should be no requirement for care givers to treat for free if people dont have the intellect to provide for themselves.

Dear Maryland Patriot
Most conservatives I know are okay with the ER treating anyone who comes in. The problem is people abusing the ER for nonER use since that's the only place they can go.

So that's where the liberals argue that the policy is already "socialized" with the public paying for ER and hospital bills, and they are trying to "reduce" that burden by requiring insurance.

What if the parties set up systems for their members, then they could use whatever they wanted to pay those costs and not try to regulate, dictate or mandate through federal govt.

Who said there had to be one system for all people?
The states can set up their own for their populations,
and under states, the parties can help manage the divorce in beliefs and funding between
* prochoice and prolife
* govt health care and free market
* insurance or charity
* even same sex vs traditional marriage and benefits
since people don't agree on that either

The Federal Govt can recognize the States having an alternative,
and the States can recognize the different parties setting up their own tracks, similar to the health sharing programs.

Again, I'd recommend to my fellow Democrats to use this opportunity to take back prison reform and push alternatives to the death penalty and pushing medical service education and treatment facilities; while the Republicans more concerned about privatizing the VA and health care can take that on and clean that up to serve both Vets and the general population.

I think we need both prison, mental health and VA reform using similar solutions of investing in facilities that combine medical education, internships and public health outreach. Developing that along the border (on both sides) would stabilize the immigrant and border crisis with trafficking and slave labor that needs to be replaced with sustainable jobs that could be provided by cleaning up these other systems currently wasting taxpayers money that could already pay for health care, educational loans, etc.

If the parties agree to work together instead of fighting to one up each other, maybe we'd all come out ahead instead of getting further behind in debts.

Thanks everyone
I believe it will take a concerted team effort,
and I look forward to seeing what leadership comes out of
these proposals to collaborate among the different parties
on unified solutions to our govt and debt issues.

Thank you!

 

[emilynghiem]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.
at least you can be honest about it....

If that's all it did, it wouldn't disgust me so much. If it were merely an expansion of the welfare state, I wouldn't consider it treasonous.

The problem with ACA isn't that it redistributes wealth to those in need. The problem is that it funnels everything through corporate insurance, ensuring that they get their cut first. That's why it was passed in Congress. The only reason.

Thank you dblack The progressive advocates for Singlepayer Universal care ALSO denounce the corporate middle man mucking it up.

But we don't hear this because the rightwing get all the spotlight fighting that battle (same reason the media didn't highlight the rightwing protesting Bush and the Patriot Act overreaching, but only the leftwing yelling about Bush to discredit the common grievances that really do have valid support on both sides of the fence, the media only shows the polarizing protests that stir people up but don't show where both sides could unite on corrections).

If the left and right could unite, we could kick out the middle man politics, but they keep playing that game. Instead of being afraid the other side is going to replace ACA with something worse, let's agree to both replace it with separate plans and let everyone fund the track of their choice.

Programs we all agree on can remain publicly funded,
but we can start separating the benefits since people don't agree on same sex marriage, and the health care as well since people don't agree on or trust prochoice and prolife administrations if they are from the opposite camp.

If this can work in Texas that is clearly segregated politically,
maybe we can offer this bipartisan solution to other states.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.

No.

Medicaid provides coverage for people who are unemployed.

It also provides coverage for people in certain categories who are employed.

COBRA offers [often prohibitive] coverage to people who are between jobs.

The PPACA provides access to coverage for everyone else whose employer does not offer them coverage.

The reason so many of you are so angry is because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Exactly.

Stop being ignorant, stop being angry.

 

[emilynghiem]

what it does is forces people that work and earn their income to pay for those that don't.

No.

Medicaid provides coverage for people who are unemployed.

It also provides coverage for people in certain categories who are employed.

COBRA offers [often prohibitive] coverage to people who are between jobs.

The PPACA provides access to coverage for everyone else whose employer does not offer them coverage.

The reason so many of you are so angry is because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Hi Arianrhod

What about the part where the FINES from people not buying into the mandates, regulations and requirements
go into the Federal Govt to pay for THAT program (which Constitutionalists like me don't agree with funding through INVOLUTARY federal mandates without first voting on a Constitutional Amendment so States and People have a say before giving up these PRIVATE decisions on health care and financial planning/"how to pay for it" to feds).

We DON'T have a choice in where our 'tax penalties' go;
so it currently goes into this same regime of managing MORE of our personal health care and financial decisions "through the Federal govt without the people/states voting on it first" which is EXACTLY what is being contested but is still being FORCED on us, even if against our beliefs.

What MIGHT be fair:
Each track has a system of exemptions where the fines/penalties go into a GENERAL FUND
under THAT system of paying/providing for health care NOT THE OTHER TRACK.

So if people are under the Free Market pool, then if they don't meet the requirements for exemptions under THAT system, their tax fines go into a pool that is managed under FREE MARKET principles (and/or prolife if these taxpayers also split off into a separate pool to avoid conflicting with prochoice taxpayers).

And if people are under the SinglePayer pool, then if they don't meet the requirements for exemptions under THAT system, their tax fines go into a pool managed under the current federal mandates, federal exchanges or whatever that administration comes up with.

So that way you DO have a choice what to opt into. You sign up and pay under the mandate for the track YOU believe in supporting, whether it's (for example):
* prolife and free market pool
* prochoice and singlepayer pool (can be managed by state or federal govt as long as people have VOLUNTARY CHOICE to opt in or out, currently we don't, because the fines go to federal govt to fund the current system that is DOES NOT include the Free Market track as an equal option)

Currently you don't have a choice, all citizens/taxpayers are under these federal mandates and if you don't comply the tax fines still go into THAT system. That's what the complain it, there is no free choice, so if we were going to give up our choice, that's where Constitutionalists are arguing there should have been a VOTE on a Constitutional Amendment agreeing to hand more of these private liberties/rights reserved to State/people over to federal govt (since the taxpayers affected are not proven to have committed any crime justifying depriving us of liberty, we are still owed some form of "due process" before depriving us of more of our natural rights / free choice).

Arianrhod how would the "prochoice crowd" like it if the federal govt decided to manage all health care under a prolife system, that fined anyone who wanted to pay under a prochoice system instead (since those were NOT approved exemptions). You are "still free" NOT to buy under the prolife plans, and TECHNICALLY can you can choose to fund and set up your own prochoice options, BUT YOU STILL GET FINED. And that penalty goes into the PROLIFE system that the federal govt is endorsing. So if you want to fund prochoice, by the tax fine you are still FORCED to fund the prolife IN ADDITION to whatever you pay for through your own prochoice systems, BUT NOT VICE VERSA because the federal govt wouldn't be forcing the prolife to fund the prochoice through the tax fines. Clearly that would NOT EQUAL but biased TOWARD prolife by forced funding and biased AGAINST prochoice by not exempting those options equally.

Wouldn't the prochoice crowd yell about having equal rights to fund programs through their prochoice system instead of being forced to either BUY into the prolife options or PAY FINES into the federal prolife system if they don't. Either way, they are being FORCED to pay a fine into the system that excludes what they believe in.

 

[emilynghiem]

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Are the premiums for these "health share memberships" (I wonder if y'all realize they're co-ops?) higher than they would be for a policy with an established insurer through the marketplace sites?

Arianrhod
It depends on your income level.
For many people the health shares are cheaper.
But limits on coverage as BULLDOG pointed out.

I was looking at either the 199 monthly membership under Liberty with the one time set up fee
and 75 annual membership after that. with 1,000,000 one million dollar coverage and 500 deductible,
or figure out what is the lowest option under Medi-Shares to compare which is cheaper monthly.

Or the lowest 45 a month Bronze plan under the CHM but they charge higher set up fees
and it has a 5,000 deductible per incident.

I was just looking to get by with the minimal to not pay fines until this mandate is removed
that violates Constitutional standards and beliefs.

But if I am going to pay money into any such program, I would want to invest in groups that would agree to expand to manage facilities for medical/nursing training, internships, and residencies to serve the public. If companies are willing to apply resources toward creating sustainable health services, I would want to invest my dollars there. The spiritual healing I would ask to research and provide there, in order to reduce costs as much as possible and serve the maximum people for free or low cost, could not be required through govt (except possibly in criminal cases), but it can be offered through private programs freely chosen by the public.

Emily, please try this on the exchange.....enter all of your personal information that they ask for to give you an estimate, but instead of choosing a Bronze plan, choose the cheapest Silver plan you can find and check that..... it may appear to be more expensive than the Bronze Plan on the surface....

Anyway, if your income is low, you will qualify for additional help.... it is called Cost Sharing Reductions.... this is in addition to the insurance premium help, (the subsidy). This govt cost sharing reduction, is not available with any other Insurance plan, than the plans at the Silver level, it will not show up on your Bronze plan selections...or even a Gold or platimum plan selection, only the Silver Plan.

If you qualify for the additional Cost Sharing Reduction, the government comes in and pays for all (if you make little money) or in the least, most of this plan's deductibles, and out of pocket expenses, as mentioned, in addition to the subsidy helping with the insurance monthly premium...

Please just try this...if you have limited income, this could be the best for you....getting full health care coverage, with no or low deductibles and out of pocket expense, and also with free annual doctor visits, and as little as $10-$30 for copays on your other doctor visits...

You have to look out for yourself Emily, and this could be best for you.

At least check it out Em, even if you choose not to go with this Silver plan with cost sharing reductions, at least you would have all of your options available, including the other religious exempt plans outside of the ACA, to compare.

Dear Care4all
No thank you. This violates my beliefs like asking a Muslim to eat pork or asking a Hindu to eat beef.
If I were starving to death and had no other way, I might eat beef or pork.

But if beef or pork were being FORCED on me while INSULTING and DENYING my right
to my Muslim or Hindu beliefs, I would rather STARVE TO DEATH to protest the DENIAL of equal rights.

In this case, I would actually rather pay for all my health care, and all my neighbors' through CHARITY
than go through a federal system FORCED ON PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR BELIEFS.
If it came to dying if nobody donated the medical care or costs, I would rather DIE
than violate my Constitutional convictions. But fortunately my Christian and Constitutional friends who know my convictions would rather pay for my insurance or health care rather than see me go on strike to protest.
They are the only reason I haven't gone on a hunger strike; my friends convinced me this battle can be won without having to go that far.

Because this is being FORCED in a mindset of DENIAL that creeds and beliefs are being excluded, discriminated against, and trampled upon, that alone is worth boycotting this system to point out it is DISCRIMINATORY and contradicts the very PROCHOICE arguments the Democratic party and liberals have been making against Prolife beliefs. When it comes to right to health care, all those arguments get overridden,
so the Prolife have the right to push their views through govt if the argument about "free choice" is so easily overridden. SURELY if the right to free choice of abortion without ANY penalty is SO important it is even worth the risk and damage that abortion may cause, then why penalize the free choice whether or not to buy insurance that doesn't cause near as much risk or harm?

Thank you Care4all
but you are like asking Rosa Parks to set her butt down like a good [neighbor] in the back of the bus to avoid going to jail.

Sorry but that's how I feel. I am not throwing my Constitutional beliefs and ethics under the bus.

If I don't like the rules of the bus, and how these rules are being enforced without equal say or free choice, I shouldn't be fined for using a different system that I believe works better by respecting free choice. So it is wrong for the federal govt to fine the free choice of other systems, especially when I never agreed to hand over those rights to govt to regulate, mandate and penalize.

No thanks!

 

[rdean]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

It's the propaganda. It's eroded their brains as sure as the water in Flint eroded the pipes.