Opt Out of Obamacare with Health Shares (3 companies referred to me)

[emilynghiem]

These three links are examples of Christian health share programs recommended to me
in order to be exempted from any other Obamacare regulations or penalties:

Liberty HealthShare

My Christian Care

Christian Healthcare Ministries: Home

Some of these companies offer bonuses for referrals. If you want to raise money for medical charities,
I would recommend whole churches to refer their members and donate the referrals to help pay medical costs
or membership costs for those less fortunate.

If anyone else wants to join the movement to get out of Obamacare completely,
these are some examples of religious health care sharing programs that qualify for exemption.

Does anyone else have referrals to add?
What about reviews of health sharing programs?
Please post freely.

 

[Grandma]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

 

[emilynghiem]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

Dear Grandma:

Just ask the Universal Health Care advocates who don't want corporate insurance controlling health care either.

Paying for insurance is NOT paying for health care.
It doesn't build facilities or pay for education and training for service providers.

What would make more sense is investing tax dollars and business tax deductions
into developing teaching hospitals and internship programs, where medical education
is paid for having interns and residents serve in public health to pay the costs of medical school.

So that is investing money directly into developing health care programs that are sustainable,
supervised through medical schools, and provide services and access to the public.

That is NOT the same as the current legislation requiring that citizens pay insurance companies.
The insurance companies that lobbied for ACA also negotiated trillions of our tax dollars paid to them in advance.

Why do you think the Singlepayer and Universal Health Care advocates are trying to replace ACA with something else?

Nobody wants to be forced to buy and fund corporate interests that lobbied for financial benefits so this bill could pass. The mandates were to appease corporate interests -- that is not helping the citizens to be forced to buy insurance still priced for corporate profits instead of paying for health care where the resources go into creating a sustainable network of service provisions. Note: I also propose revamping state prison budgets to convert mental health and prison facilities into medical programs that can serve more than just the prison population but the greater public.

 

[BULLDOG]

Lots of reasons why these programs wouldn't be suitable.Here are just a few.

If you don’t fit these organizations’ rather narrow view of Christianity (Catholics, Mormons and others who consider themselves Bible-reading Christians don’t qualify, nor do Jews, Muslims, Atheists etc), you’re just out of luck. (although I’ve been told Catholics are okay and in fact the person who brought it to my attention is Catholic.) The fact that these organizations have been granted an exception to PPACA is ridiculous since there is no provision for a similar religious or non-religious organization to get the same exception. This is frankly unfair and ought to be illegal. Either everyone should be able to start an organization like this or members of this organization shouldn’t be exempt from PPACA penalties.

One of the reason PPACA-compliant plans cost more than a similar health care insurance plan is that these insurance plans provide preventive care. You’re on your own for this with these three organizations. Most don’t allow you to “share” costs below a certain amount, such as $3-500. You can burn through a lot of money at less than $500 per need. Immunizations aren’t covered. Frugal folks tend to skip a preventive visit when they actually have to pay for it, which may lead to more health problems and costs down the road.

The point of health insurance is to keep you from having to declare bankruptcy in the event of unexpected health care costs. These plans limit you to just a few hundred thousand dollars for a health care problem. It doesn’t take long for a chronic illness, or a particularly severe acute illness or injury, to surpass that sum. Imagine a 30 day trauma ICU stay or a preemie requiring months of NICU care. You’re still going bankrupt because you don’t have real health insurance. One of the best parts of Obamacare is that it eliminates idiotic insurance plans (like the one my Aunt had when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The maximum annual benefit was $2000. Yes, you read that right, just $2K.) Some of the features of these sharing plans aren’t much different from many bad insurance plans in the past. There is no guarantee that your health care needs will actually be paid for. There is no contract.
Christian Health Care Sharing Versus Health Insurance | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance Information For Physicians, Dentists, Residents, Students, And Other Highly-Educated Busy Professionals

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

Correct.

The ACA is not 'health insurance,' there is nothing to 'opt out' from.

The Act is Federal legislation authorizing a health exchange where private companies are allowed to participate in a marketplace for those seeking health insurance; it affords those eligible subsidies to pay for part of their insurance premium, it allows the states to expand their Medicaid programs to insure low income residents who can't afford insurance in the exchange, and it creates regulatory policy to address the costs of healthcare and provisions of coverage, such as applicants with preexisting conditions.

The ACA does not 'force' anyone to have health insurance; those who wish to have no health insurance are at liberty to do so, they pay a tax to help fund the program, just as Constitutional as any other tax, and they remain eligible to purchase insurance at a future date should they decide to have insurance.

And those who refuse to pay the tax are not subject to any punitive measures, where any tax refund is subject to garnishment if available.

Opposition to the ACA is predicated solely on partisan politics, ignorance, lies, and myths, and an unwarranted hostility toward the president, not the merits of the Act.

 

[emilynghiem]

Lots of reasons why these programs wouldn't be suitable.Here are just a few.

If you don’t fit these organizations’ rather narrow view of Christianity (Catholics, Mormons and others who consider themselves Bible-reading Christians don’t qualify, nor do Jews, Muslims, Atheists etc), you’re just out of luck. (although I’ve been told Catholics are okay and in fact the person who brought it to my attention is Catholic.) The fact that these organizations have been granted an exception to PPACA is ridiculous since there is no provision for a similar religious or non-religious organization to get the same exception. This is frankly unfair and ought to be illegal. Either everyone should be able to start an organization like this or members of this organization shouldn’t be exempt from PPACA penalties.

One of the reason PPACA-compliant plans cost more than a similar health care insurance plan is that these insurance plans provide preventive care. You’re on your own for this with these three organizations. Most don’t allow you to “share” costs below a certain amount, such as $3-500. You can burn through a lot of money at less than $500 per need. Immunizations aren’t covered. Frugal folks tend to skip a preventive visit when they actually have to pay for it, which may lead to more health problems and costs down the road.

The point of health insurance is to keep you from having to declare bankruptcy in the event of unexpected health care costs. These plans limit you to just a few hundred thousand dollars for a health care problem. It doesn’t take long for a chronic illness, or a particularly severe acute illness or injury, to surpass that sum. Imagine a 30 day trauma ICU stay or a preemie requiring months of NICU care. You’re still going bankrupt because you don’t have real health insurance. One of the best parts of Obamacare is that it eliminates idiotic insurance plans (like the one my Aunt had when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The maximum annual benefit was $2000. Yes, you read that right, just $2K.) Some of the features of these sharing plans aren’t much different from many bad insurance plans in the past. There is no guarantee that your health care needs will actually be paid for. There is no contract.
Christian Health Care Sharing Versus Health Insurance | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance Information For Physicians, Dentists, Residents, Students, And Other Highly-Educated Busy Professionals

Dear BULLDOG that's great if these work.
So why not fund the discount rates and exchange programs
directly and independent of federal govt and forced mandates.

Nobody is forced to fund or participate in the health shares.
Why not set up the exchanges and reformed insurance plans the same way,
where participants have equal freedom of choice and religious freedom to opt in.

If it works so well, then like the Catholic schools or prolife programs that work so well,
why not run that on VOLUNTARY participation and funding.

No matter how well a Christian school or nonprofit might work,
that is unconstitutional to force the public to fund and be required to participate in it or face fines.

Why aren't the health care choices treated the same way?
Let them ALL be voluntarily funded with voluntary participation.

 

[Dale Smith]

The ACA was written by insurance companies for insurance companies.

 

[BULLDOG]

Lots of reasons why these programs wouldn't be suitable.Here are just a few.

If you don’t fit these organizations’ rather narrow view of Christianity (Catholics, Mormons and others who consider themselves Bible-reading Christians don’t qualify, nor do Jews, Muslims, Atheists etc), you’re just out of luck. (although I’ve been told Catholics are okay and in fact the person who brought it to my attention is Catholic.) The fact that these organizations have been granted an exception to PPACA is ridiculous since there is no provision for a similar religious or non-religious organization to get the same exception. This is frankly unfair and ought to be illegal. Either everyone should be able to start an organization like this or members of this organization shouldn’t be exempt from PPACA penalties.

One of the reason PPACA-compliant plans cost more than a similar health care insurance plan is that these insurance plans provide preventive care. You’re on your own for this with these three organizations. Most don’t allow you to “share” costs below a certain amount, such as $3-500. You can burn through a lot of money at less than $500 per need. Immunizations aren’t covered. Frugal folks tend to skip a preventive visit when they actually have to pay for it, which may lead to more health problems and costs down the road.

The point of health insurance is to keep you from having to declare bankruptcy in the event of unexpected health care costs. These plans limit you to just a few hundred thousand dollars for a health care problem. It doesn’t take long for a chronic illness, or a particularly severe acute illness or injury, to surpass that sum. Imagine a 30 day trauma ICU stay or a preemie requiring months of NICU care. You’re still going bankrupt because you don’t have real health insurance. One of the best parts of Obamacare is that it eliminates idiotic insurance plans (like the one my Aunt had when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. The maximum annual benefit was $2000. Yes, you read that right, just $2K.) Some of the features of these sharing plans aren’t much different from many bad insurance plans in the past. There is no guarantee that your health care needs will actually be paid for. There is no contract.
Christian Health Care Sharing Versus Health Insurance | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance Information For Physicians, Dentists, Residents, Students, And Other Highly-Educated Busy Professionals

Dear BULLDOG that's great if these work.
So why not fund the discount rates and exchange programs
directly and independent of federal govt and forced mandates.

Nobody is forced to fund or participate in the health shares.
Why not set up the exchanges and reformed insurance plans the same way,
where participants have equal freedom of choice and religious freedom to opt in.

If it works so well, then like the Catholic schools or prolife programs that work so well,
why not run that on VOLUNTARY participation and funding.

No matter how well a Christian school or nonprofit might work,
that is unconstitutional to force the public to fund and be required to participate in it or face fines.

Why aren't the health care choices treated the same way?
Let them ALL be voluntarily funded with voluntary participation.

The three groups are special carve outs only for "Christian" organizations. NOBODY ELSE. They are great for some goober who wants to say they are completely outside of the ACA boundaries, but they suck at being a reasonable protection from medical expenses. Read the link for more info.

 

[guno]

These three links are examples of Christian health share programs recommended to me
in order to be exempted from any other Obamacare regulations or penalties:

Liberty HealthShare

My Christian Care

Christian Healthcare Ministries: Home

Some of these companies offer bonuses for referrals. If you want to raise money for medical charities,
I would recommend whole churches to refer their members and donate the referrals to help pay medical costs
or membership costs for those less fortunate.

If anyone else wants to join the movement to get out of Obamacare completely,
these are some examples of religious health care sharing programs that qualify for exemption.

Does anyone else have referrals to add?
What about reviews of health sharing programs?
Please post freely.

Why Do Christians Want or need Health Insurance in the first place?

For the Christians who claim to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus and are cared for by a benevolent god, why do they need health insurance? Why avail themselves of modern medicine at all? Shouldn't prayer be sufficient?

How about this plan Emily : Under a revised ACH plan, rational normal people would receive health care at government expense just like what everyone receives in the counties with the highest quality health care systems. Christians and believers of other idiotic absurdities would automatically be placed on the Prayer Care Plan. This plan would not cost the government (or anyone else) anything at all. When believers got sick, they would pray for recovery. It's really that simple.

If you believe in the sort of god in which you claim to believe, why isn't prayer sufficient for you?

 

[Dale Smith]

These three links are examples of Christian health share programs recommended to me
in order to be exempted from any other Obamacare regulations or penalties:

Liberty HealthShare

My Christian Care

Christian Healthcare Ministries: Home

Some of these companies offer bonuses for referrals. If you want to raise money for medical charities,
I would recommend whole churches to refer their members and donate the referrals to help pay medical costs
or membership costs for those less fortunate.

If anyone else wants to join the movement to get out of Obamacare completely,
these are some examples of religious health care sharing programs that qualify for exemption.

Does anyone else have referrals to add?
What about reviews of health sharing programs?
Please post freely.

Why Do Christians Want or need Health Insurance in the first place?

For the Christians who claim to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus and are cared for by a benevolent god, why do they need health insurance? Why avail themselves of modern medicine at all? Shouldn't prayer be sufficient?

How about this plan Emily : Under a revised ACH plan, rational normal people would receive health care at government expense just like what everyone receives in the counties with the highest quality health care systems. Christians and believers of other idiotic absurdities would automatically be placed on the Prayer Care Plan. This plan would not cost the government (or anyone else) anything at all. When believers got sick, they would pray for recovery. It's really that simple.

If you believe in the sort of god in which you claim to believe, why isn't prayer sufficient for you?

These three links are examples of Christian health share programs recommended to me
in order to be exempted from any other Obamacare regulations or penalties:

Liberty HealthShare

My Christian Care

Christian Healthcare Ministries: Home

Some of these companies offer bonuses for referrals. If you want to raise money for medical charities,
I would recommend whole churches to refer their members and donate the referrals to help pay medical costs
or membership costs for those less fortunate.

If anyone else wants to join the movement to get out of Obamacare completely,
these are some examples of religious health care sharing programs that qualify for exemption.

Does anyone else have referrals to add?
What about reviews of health sharing programs?
Please post freely.

Why Do Christians Want or need Health Insurance in the first place?

For the Christians who claim to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus and are cared for by a benevolent god, why do they need health insurance? Why avail themselves of modern medicine at all? Shouldn't prayer be sufficient?

How about this plan Emily : Under a revised ACH plan, rational normal people would receive health care at government expense just like what everyone receives in the counties with the highest quality health care systems. Christians and believers of other idiotic absurdities would automatically be placed on the Prayer Care Plan. This plan would not cost the government (or anyone else) anything at all. When believers got sick, they would pray for recovery. It's really that simple.

If you believe in the sort of god in which you claim to believe, why isn't prayer sufficient for you?

Jesus Christ isn't a genie in a lamp that you rub when you need something. He expects people to use the resources that are available. According to your logic, Christians shouldn't worry about working or feeding themselves and simply depend on God to provide food and shelter....doesn't work that way. Personally, I have the cheapest plan that my employer offers with a high deductible and it's mega-cheap but I suspect that it will go through the roof when the employer mandate kicks in and then I will refuse any insurance care. I am not interested in hanging around this prison planet any longer than I have to and I am certainly not going to spend Federal Reserve debt notes in order to extend my stay on this shitty planet. You, on the other hand? You would dig up your sainted mother and steal her DNA for stem-cell research if you thought that it would prolong your existence for even a week....just so you could continue to be the aggravating douche that you are......am I wrong? I think not....Jesus loves you......turn to him because it's gonna get REALLY bad before long.

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

 

[Dale Smith]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

 

[Dale Smith]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

 

[Dale Smith]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.



The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

 

[emilynghiem]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

Correct.

The ACA is not 'health insurance,' there is nothing to 'opt out' from.

The Act is Federal legislation authorizing a health exchange where private companies are allowed to participate in a marketplace for those seeking health insurance; it affords those eligible subsidies to pay for part of their insurance premium, it allows the states to expand their Medicaid programs to insure low income residents who can't afford insurance in the exchange, and it creates regulatory policy to address the costs of healthcare and provisions of coverage, such as applicants with preexisting conditions.

The ACA does not 'force' anyone to have health insurance; those who wish to have no health insurance are at liberty to do so, they pay a tax to help fund the program, just as Constitutional as any other tax, and they remain eligible to purchase insurance at a future date should they decide to have insurance.

And those who refuse to pay the tax are not subject to any punitive measures, where any tax refund is subject to garnishment if available.

Opposition to the ACA is predicated solely on partisan politics, ignorance, lies, and myths, and an unwarranted hostility toward the president, not the merits of the Act.

OK C_Clayton_Jones and Grandma

I am going to try to write this correction out more LITERALLY:

1. I see where my poor wording you are taking EXACTLY LITERALLY
so I agree that is the WRONG wording and NOT WHAT I MEAN

SORRY C_Clayton_Jones and Grandma BULLDOG and others
who need a LITERALLY CORRECT SPELLED OUT TRANSCRIPTION.

2. The CONCEPT I mean is correct, the WORDING IS NOT, SO
PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THIS CORRECT BELOW IN BOLD WORKS FOR YOU:

What I MEAN and thought it was clear was MEMBERSHIP in these
health share programs that qualify as RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS UNDER ACA
means that members are not fined or penalized for not buying insurance as required by ACA

3. these health share programs qualify as RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS so they are a valid option
for citizens to be members in good standing of these health share programs and

a. not be required to buy "health insurance that meets the ACA regulations to avoid fine/tax penalty"
because these health share programs qualify as RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS under ACA

b. not be required to be ENROLLED or purchase from the ACA exchanges
because these health share programs qualify as RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS under ACA

c. not be required to pay tax penalty fines to federal govt
because these health share programs qualify as RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS under ACA

Liberty HealthShare


Excerpt from 26 U.S.C. § 5000A(d)(2)(B): US Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act: Liberty HealthShareSM
(a healthcare sharing ministry of the Gospel Light Mennonite Church Medical Aid Plan, Inc.)
‘‘(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.
‘‘(B) HEALTH CARE SHARING MINISTRY.
‘‘(i) IN GENERAL. Such term [Our note: ‘term’ refers to ‘penalty’] shall not include any individual for any month if such individual is a member of a health care sharing ministry for the month.
‘‘(ii) HEALTH CARE SHARING MINISTRY. The term ‘health care sharing ministry’ means an organization:
‘‘(I) which is described in section 501(c)(3) and is exempt from taxation under section 501(a),
‘‘(II) members of which share a common set of ethical or religious beliefs and share medical expenses among members in accordance with those beliefs and without regard to the State in which a member resides or is employed,
‘‘(III) members of which retain membership even after they develop a medical condition,
‘‘(IV) which (or a predecessor of which) has been in existence at all times since December 31, 1999, and medical expenses of its members have been shared continuously and without interruption since at least December 31, 1999, and
‘‘(V) which conducts an annual audit which is performed by an independent certified public accounting firm in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles and which is made available to the public upon request.

---------------------------------------------

NOTE to BULLDOG I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT GOVT SHOULD NOT BE IN THE
BUSINESS OF REGULATING WHICH RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS OR PAID MEMBERSHIPS
QUALIFY FOR TAX EXEMPTIONS OR NOT. ALL PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RELIGIOUS
FREEDOM TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN MEMBERSHIP AND WAYS OF PAYING FOR HEALTH CARE
WITHOUT BEING FINED FOR NOT CHOOSING THE PROGRAMS ENDORSED BY GOVERNMENT.

The Difference between you and me, is that we arrive at different conclusions.
* Because you disagree with this, you want to block or remove the religious exemption clause from allowing
citizens to get out of fines/tax penalties for the reasons you cited, through these narrowly defined exemptions.
* Because I ALSO disagree with it, I propose to OPEN UP the regulations to reward ALL citizens and groups for investing in their own sustainable health care programs and not fine anyone for their choices (as long as the standard regulations are met that currently apply to hospitals, medical schools, medical practice, etc.)

Why not make investments in sustainable health care and medical programs tax deductible?
Why not reward people and party members for developing their own programs and funding those by choice?

It's perfectly agreeable to specify and enforce CERTAIN STANDARDS on what constitutes a medical program that meets state medical and health regulations in order to qualify for a tax break --- that is NOT the same as fining citizens for "choosing other options outside what is mandated and required by ACA."

There are better ways to do this: you want to keep pushing the given programs, which should be a choice for you and others who BELIEVE and CHOOSE to fund those voluntarily.

I am say open up the process so all people and parties can create and choose their own affiliations for providing and paying for health care WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING FINED.

The problem with ACA is that the rules for "state alternatives" don't kick in until 2017.
Then those proposed programs have to go through a process of being approved by the govt
by "proving they meet certain standards of coverage"
Well, the current required options under ACA (either buying health insurance that meets regulations, being a member of a health share program that meets regulations, or being a member meeting regulations under the federal exchanges) AREN'T treated equally and never required proof to show they work first BEFORE REQUIRING THIS FOR CITIZENS.

So this is
a. Faith based, requiring unproven programs to be paid for that are against the beliefs of citizens
who still face fines/tax penalties
b. not equal, where the options under ACA are already ESTABLISHED as REQUIRED by GOVT
or else people face fines/tax penalties for not complying; and that any other options besides the ones approved under ACA get PENALIZED.

I argue this is religious and political discrimination by CREED.
AND THAT THE ACA MANDATES SHOULD BE OPTIONAL.

And any costs paid by people or groups to comply with unconstitutional mandates should be either tax deductible and/or paid for by the Democratic Party AS A POLITICAL BELIEF SYSTEM THAT IS OPTIONAL, NOT IMPOSED BY GOVT BY PENALIZING PEOPLE OR GROUPS OF OTHER BELIEFS.

Because of Democratic Party members and leaders, such as Obama Pelosi and the Democratic majority of Congress who voted for ACA as the majority (while the Republican Party and its members voted against it on the grounds it wasn't fully Constitutional), the Democratic Party can and should be held responsible for the full cost, implementation, and managing "voluntary membership" under the given provisions for those supporters.

Before any such bill is passed or enforced for the ENTIRE nation, to be "fully Constituitonal" either an Amendment needed to pass first and/or the citizens needed to vote on any such bill directly affecting their financial and health care choices such as keeping this on a STATE level NOT FEDERAL, in order to fully satisfy CONSTITUTIONAL standards AND/OR BELIEFS.

Even if we don't agree on Constitutional standards, where we differ counts as a POLITICAL BELIEF.
So both sides can still argue to defend BOTH POLITICAL BELIEFS OR SIDES EQUALLY.

Sorry not everyone believes in protecting political beliefs equally, but I do as a Constitutionalist.
So I have the right to defend and practice my Constitutional beliefs without facing discriminatory penalties for those beliefs.

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.



The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

So, Encyclopedia Brown, which political flavor do you belong to?

 

[emilynghiem]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Are the premiums for these "health share memberships" (I wonder if y'all realize they're co-ops?) higher than they would be for a policy with an established insurer through the marketplace sites?