Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

Something you and Catholics agree on

Oh my word! I didn't know I couldn't preach! Why didn't someone stop me! And the last time was so recent! Woe is me! Shame! Shame! Shame! (Now I'll stop laughing.)

Well now you know what Christians who are not Catholics believe. And they say they are the real Christians. Are they real Christians? Seems like you’ll let anyone call themselves real Christians

 

[sealybobo]

Something you and Catholics agree on

Oh my word! I didn't know I couldn't preach! Why didn't someone stop me! And the last time was so recent! Woe is me! Shame! Shame! Shame! (Now I'll stop laughing.)

The guy even sited passages in the Bible that talked against women preachers.

Now upyou see you can find a passage in the Bible for anything. I even found where it said being gay doesn’t matter but most Christians disagree with my interpretation of two women grinding

 

[sealybobo]

I'm betting here is where you and I disagree: Sex should between a male and female within the bonds of marriage only. That is the ideal.

Yep, you got that right. I disagree that:

• Sex should between a male and female (only)
• within the bonds of marriage only
• That that is "the ideal" (there's none)

Our younger citizens have no issue with any of this nonsense. They just think you're nuts and "can't wait" for us old farts to die off. Can't say as I blame them in the least.

I'd agree that married couples who vow to never cheat on one another should obviously not do so. If you break a contract there should be consequences. But different contracts for different folks. What's really a "sin" is shamelessly sticking one's nose in other's bedrooms. Judge not lest..

Oh, and like it or not, marriage is a state function in this country. No religion required. I've been married by a JP twice. No priest, reverend, pastor, nor minister sought or required.

And most people go to their church to get married but they go to a lawyer to get divorced.

I understand Catholics migh5 be different but most Americans don’t consult a priest when they get divorced they lawyer up

 

[Grumblenuts]

YouTube described this video as recommended for me. So like a good dog I watched it believing that it might shed some light on how Einstein got it so wrong. No such luck. Some obvious, important errors and omissions, such as zero mention of Tesla for example, sadly revealing how stuffy, defensive, revisionist, and parochial the conventional wisdom remains. However, that said, it's vastly delightful, inspiring, and refreshingly focused upon the actual, useful science we still vastly must rely upon today since Einstein all but destroyed interest in that sort of science - a life's devotion to rigorous fundamental experiments and meticulous note taking. Also, surprisingly, the guy effectively admits to the Aether existing (albeit with name changed) toward the end despite repeatedly insisting otherwise earlier. So Michelson's instincts were right all along, but they'll keep claiming the opposite come hell or high water.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I'm betting here is where you and I disagree: Sex should between a male and female within the bonds of marriage only. That is the ideal.

Yep, you got that right. I disagree that:

• Sex should between a male and female (only)
• within the bonds of marriage only
• That that is "the ideal" (there's none)

Our younger citizens have no issue with any of this nonsense. They just think you're nuts and "can't wait" for us old farts to die off. Can't say as I blame them in the least.

I'd agree that married couples who vow to never cheat on one another should obviously not do so. If you break a contract there should be consequences. But different contracts for different folks. What's really a "sin" is shamelessly sticking one's nose in other's bedrooms. Judge not lest..

Oh, and like it or not, marriage is a state function in this country. No religion required. I've been married by a JP twice. No priest, reverend, pastor, nor minister sought or required.

And most people go to their church to get married but they go to a lawyer to get divorced.

I understand Catholics migh5 be different but most Americans don’t consult a priest when they get divorced they lawyer up

I actually did the opposite first go round. Let my cheating ex just have everything because I valued my great friendship with her family over all else. Lost a ton financially but soon won in terms of peace of mind and no regrets since.

 

[Meriweather]

Well now you know what Christians who are not Catholics believe. And they say they are the real Christians. Are they real Christians? Seems like you’ll let anyone call themselves real Christians

That is not where the infection is. Catholicism has survived hundreds of years with many of the great Saints disagreeing over this, that, and the other. Today Catholics get along with non-Catholic Christians in much the same way. We disagree over this, over that, over the other. Personally, if Catholicism disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, my choice would be Judaism, not any Protestant denomination. Even so, it is not all the Christian denominations disagreeing with one another that is the infection. The infection is government.

It is government that whispered to Christians that they could divorce, that they had to agree with it, even if they would not indulge in it themselves. Others would die if they did not. The same whisper came with abortion, with expanding sexual practices, etc. They didn't have to choose, but if they didn't embrace the next issue, people would die. And, they had to give up teaching and practicing religion in school. It was upsetting people, and besides they had their churches, synagogues and weekends, correct. They could do what they wanted in those places at that time.
And the government still whispered. The religious wanted to take over science classes; let's laugh, let's deride everyone that claims to be Christian, even if it is only a small minority who push this.

Can Church push back against any of this? Certainly not! That is why we have separation of Church and State! Once something is is the State's purview, Church loses any say at all. That is the way separation of Church and State works. State is being oh so reasonable, Church that is not.

Over a hundred years before Christ, mankind recognized this. Government cannot maintain Godly standards. Yes, every so often a Godly man would come into power--and they predicted one more man would. Godly ways would prevail for about a century...but in the end the ungodly would again regain control and its power and the length of its power would be ten times longer and stronger than that of the Godly. They saw only one solution. God, Himself, would have to come down and take over the kingship on earth. This became known as The Day of the Lord.

What does Genesis tell us, what did ancient man observe? When men became undisciplined, their tribes and nations fell. How can we they tell when a nation is becoming undisciplined? Genesis--our ancestors--tells us, Look at sexual practices. Disicipline or lack of discipline can easily be observed in that area. And when a tribe or nation's discipline fails, look for its downfall.

State has taken over Church. So don't speak of Christians not agreeing with one another. Speak of how what was to be an equality between Church and State became the ungodly (State) once more overpowering the Godly...you know, the ones playing by the rules of "separation". The State basically said, "Forget that. Divide and conquer. And in doing so, they are bringing about their own downfall.

 

[Grumblenuts]

White Christian majority member crying victim? "The truth hurts" - Ben Finegold.

 

[LuckyDuck]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Rather than referring to yourself as an Agnostic Atheist.....? Either pick a side and get off the fence or refer to yourself as a "Possibilian." That way, your stance is clearly open to either there is or isn't a deity.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm betting here is where you and I disagree: Sex should between a male and female within the bonds of marriage only. That is the ideal.

Yep, you got that right. I disagree that:

• Sex should between a male and female (only)
• within the bonds of marriage only
• That that is "the ideal" (there's none)

Our younger citizens have no issue with any of this nonsense. They just think you're nuts and "can't wait" for us old farts to die off. Can't say as I blame them in the least.

I'd agree that married couples who vow to never cheat on one another should obviously not do so. If you break a contract there should be consequences. But different contracts for different folks. What's really a "sin" is shamelessly sticking one's nose in other's bedrooms. Judge not lest..

Oh, and like it or not, marriage is a state function in this country. No religion required. I've been married by a JP twice. No priest, reverend, pastor, nor minister sought or required.

And most people go to their church to get married but they go to a lawyer to get divorced.

I understand Catholics migh5 be different but most Americans don’t consult a priest when they get divorced they lawyer up

I actually did the opposite first go round. Let my cheating ex just have everything because I valued my great friendship with her family over all else. Lost a ton financially but soon won in terms of peace of mind and no regrets since.

Screw that. Are they going to pay your bills if times get tough? Do you still hang out with them to this day? I bet you do not.

If it gave you peace of mind great and if it wasn't worth it sure but you said it was a TON of money and to that I say F that. LOL

 

[Grumblenuts]

I was simply offering it as an exception to the rule. And, yes, her parents are still kicking. My wife and I both adore them now and visit often. Her brother remains my best friend. She just went nuts. I forgave her long ago and just feel sorry for her now. But, yeah, as a rule? Lawyer up! Definitely! LOL

 

[sealybobo]

Well now you know what Christians who are not Catholics believe. And they say they are the real Christians. Are they real Christians? Seems like you’ll let anyone call themselves real Christians

That is not where the infection is. Catholicism has survived hundreds of years with many of the great Saints disagreeing over this, that, and the other. Today Catholics get along with non-Catholic Christians in much the same way. We disagree over this, over that, over the other. Personally, if Catholicism disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, my choice would be Judaism, not any Protestant denomination. Even so, it is not all the Christian denominations disagreeing with one another that is the infection. The infection is government.

It is government that whispered to Christians that they could divorce, that they had to agree with it, even if they would not indulge in it themselves. Others would die if they did not. The same whisper came with abortion, with expanding sexual practices, etc. They didn't have to choose, but if they didn't embrace the next issue, people would die. And, they had to give up teaching and practicing religion in school. It was upsetting people, and besides they had their churches, synagogues and weekends, correct. They could do what they wanted in those places at that time.
And the government still whispered. The religious wanted to take over science classes; let's laugh, let's deride everyone that claims to be Christian, even if it is only a small minority who push this.

Can Church push back against any of this? Certainly not! That is why we have separation of Church and State! Once something is is the State's purview, Church loses any say at all. That is the way separation of Church and State works. State is being oh so reasonable, Church that is not.

Over a hundred years before Christ, mankind recognized this. Government cannot maintain Godly standards. Yes, every so often a Godly man would come into power--and they predicted one more man would. Godly ways would prevail for about a century...but in the end the ungodly would again regain control and its power and the length of its power would be ten times longer and stronger than that of the Godly. They saw only one solution. God, Himself, would have to come down and take over the kingship on earth. This became known as The Day of the Lord.

What does Genesis tell us, what did ancient man observe? When men became undisciplined, their tribes and nations fell. How can we they tell when a nation is becoming undisciplined? Genesis--our ancestors--tells us, Look at sexual practices. Disicipline or lack of discipline can easily be observed in that area. And when a tribe or nation's discipline fails, look for its downfall.

State has taken over Church. So don't speak of Christians not agreeing with one another. Speak of how what was to be an equality between Church and State became the ungodly (State) once more overpowering the Godly...you know, the ones playing by the rules of "separation". The State basically said, "Forget that. Divide and conquer. And in doing so, they are bringing about their own downfall.

1. Yes, in a free country people can get divorced. Sorry if that bothered your religion.

2. I would blame the womens lib movement if I were you. So do you wish we could go back to the good old days where women were powerless and couldn't get a divorce? You know as soon as women could start making their own money is when divorce started happening more and why less people today get married. Women don't need men anymore. Not financially anyways. Isn't that a good thing?

And do you also miss the good old days where our "government" didn't whisper to gays that it's ok to be gay? I bet you wish they'd go back in the closet. Back then they were miserable but you loved it. So you see, the old ways may work better for you but they don't work for non religious Americans and this land is for all of us. And for the record, I don't think this society is going to shit other than I can't believe people vote Republican. To me, that's why the middle class is struggling and the rich are richer than ever. Reality TV for example, the Apprentice. It's all making us stupid. That's why Trump won. Anti science, denying global warming, against common sense gun legislation. All the mass shootings. I can't believe there haven't been any rampages since the coronavirus started.

3. Yes, today Catholics and other Christians get along. Kind of hard to call bullshit on their story when your story is basically the same story right? So I can see why you don't call them out for the stupid shit they believe. Same way you guys don't call bullshit on the Muslim or Mormon religions. But the truth is, the Mormon story is that your religion is no longer valid. That's pretty insulting no?

4. So Iran and Saudi Arabia are in a better place than we are? I mean, they don't have separation of church and state. Are they better than us? They probably don't allow abortion and they probably have less divorces. Do you want to move to one of those countries? I don't think so.

5. My mom always said if she were to join another church she'd become a Jew too. I love it. You remind me of my mom and grandmother. Both were fun to talk to about things like religion and politics.

 

[sealybobo]

White Christian majority member crying victim? "The truth hurts" - Ben Finegold.

That's what I'm thinking too. To suggest that the country is going to shit because too many have turned away from Jesus? That's insulting to me. That would mean that I'm one of the people who's making this country shittier. How so? I vote. Voting is a sign of being a good citizen. I believe in cleaning up this planet. I believe in a woman's right to choose. I don't know how a poor young woman having a baby she doesn't want would make our country better. If we had more orphins maybe that would fill more pew seats? I think we are overpopulated and I don't have any kids. So I'll leave this world without leaving such a big carbon footprint. I'm not a criminal. My family and friends love me. I make my company money. Isn't capitalism important to our country? Look at how it went to shit as soon as the economy shut down.

I love it when people complain that our government is interfering too much in our lives or that they want church and state to be equal. I just got my stimulus check. $950. Did half of that money come from a church? No. In fact churches also got money from the government. No, I don't want church and state to be equals. Same way I don't like corporations having too much control of our politicians.

And look at how the Christian community supports Trump.

The president is about as far from a model of piety as can be imagined but many reach for a biblical figure to justify their support

Before the end of 2016 there was little in Donald Trump’s life, or frequently offensive political campaign, to suggest that as president he would be hailed as God’s appointee on Earth, be beloved by born-again Christians, or compared to a biblical king.
Yet that is exactly what has happened in the three years since Trump took office, as he has surrounded himself with a God-fearing cabinet and struck up an unlikely but extremely beneficial relationship with white evangelical supporters.

'Unparalleled privilege': why white evangelicals see Trump as their savior

The president is about as far from a model of piety as can be imagined but many reach for a biblical figure to justify their support

www.theguardian.com

 

[sealybobo]

I was simply offering it as an exception to the rule. And, yes, her parents are still kicking. My wife and I both adore them now and visit often. Her brother remains my best friend. She just went nuts. I forgave her long ago and just feel sorry for her now. But, yeah, as a rule? Lawyer up! Definitely! LOL

You know why you forgave her? Jesus.

 

[sealybobo]

Well now you know what Christians who are not Catholics believe. And they say they are the real Christians. Are they real Christians? Seems like you’ll let anyone call themselves real Christians

That is not where the infection is. Catholicism has survived hundreds of years with many of the great Saints disagreeing over this, that, and the other. Today Catholics get along with non-Catholic Christians in much the same way. We disagree over this, over that, over the other. Personally, if Catholicism disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, my choice would be Judaism, not any Protestant denomination. Even so, it is not all the Christian denominations disagreeing with one another that is the infection. The infection is government.

It is government that whispered to Christians that they could divorce, that they had to agree with it, even if they would not indulge in it themselves. Others would die if they did not. The same whisper came with abortion, with expanding sexual practices, etc. They didn't have to choose, but if they didn't embrace the next issue, people would die. And, they had to give up teaching and practicing religion in school. It was upsetting people, and besides they had their churches, synagogues and weekends, correct. They could do what they wanted in those places at that time.
And the government still whispered. The religious wanted to take over science classes; let's laugh, let's deride everyone that claims to be Christian, even if it is only a small minority who push this.

Can Church push back against any of this? Certainly not! That is why we have separation of Church and State! Once something is is the State's purview, Church loses any say at all. That is the way separation of Church and State works. State is being oh so reasonable, Church that is not.

Over a hundred years before Christ, mankind recognized this. Government cannot maintain Godly standards. Yes, every so often a Godly man would come into power--and they predicted one more man would. Godly ways would prevail for about a century...but in the end the ungodly would again regain control and its power and the length of its power would be ten times longer and stronger than that of the Godly. They saw only one solution. God, Himself, would have to come down and take over the kingship on earth. This became known as The Day of the Lord.

What does Genesis tell us, what did ancient man observe? When men became undisciplined, their tribes and nations fell. How can we they tell when a nation is becoming undisciplined? Genesis--our ancestors--tells us, Look at sexual practices. Disicipline or lack of discipline can easily be observed in that area. And when a tribe or nation's discipline fails, look for its downfall.

State has taken over Church. So don't speak of Christians not agreeing with one another. Speak of how what was to be an equality between Church and State became the ungodly (State) once more overpowering the Godly...you know, the ones playing by the rules of "separation". The State basically said, "Forget that. Divide and conquer. And in doing so, they are bringing about their own downfall.

“It’s incredibly troubling,” said Rachel Laser, president and CEO of Americans United, a nonpartisan organization dedicated to the separation of church and state.

A sustained effort by influential Christian voices to justify Trump’s personal misdeeds and political cruelty has led to the frequent portrayal of Trump as a flawed vessel for God’s will. In particular, Trump has been compared to King Cyrus, who, according to the Bible, liberated the Jews from Babylonian captivity, despite himself being a Persian ruler.

The concept has since gone international, with Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, making the comparison in March 2018.

In return, they have been rewarded with attacks on reproductive rights and the freedoms of LGBTQ+ people, and the appointment of scores of conservative judges.


“Many of Trump’s political appointees have, as their primary qualification, the fact that they are committed to a very distinct, conservative religious agenda,” said Katherine Stewart, author of an upcoming book The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism.

“Absent the Trump administration, many of them would never have been seen near the halls of power, and so they owe everything to Trump and his people.”

In 2015 Pompeo also confirmed he believes in the Rapture, the concept of an end of days event – usually some sort of catastrophe – whereby Jesus Christ will return to Earth and escort qualified believers into heaven.


Other committed evangelicals include Vice-President Mike Pence, who as governor of Indiana signed a law which allowed businesses to refuse service to LGBTQ+ people, citing religious freedom.

Some of the people Trump has appointed are already making a difference. Ben Carson, who has been in charge of housing and urban development since 2017. Under Carson’s leadership, Laser pointed out, Hud has proposed legislation which would allow federally funded homeless shelters to discriminate against transgender people, on religious grounds.


In March 2019 Pew Research found that “white evangelical Protestants” continued to overwhelmingly support Trump, where most other religious groups were as divided as the American people as a whole.

It is that support that Trump, the imperfect vessel, will be counting on in November 2020.

 

[Meriweather]

1. Yes, in a free country people can get divorced. Sorry if that bothered your religion.

2. I would blame the womens lib movement if I were you. So do you wish we could go back to the good old days where women were powerless and couldn't get a divorce? You know as soon as women could start making their own money is when divorce started happening more and why less people today get married. Women don't need men anymore. Not financially anyways. Isn't that a good thing?

And do you also miss the good old days where our "government" didn't whisper to gays that it's ok to be gay? I bet you wish they'd go back in the closet. Back then they were miserable but you loved it. So you see, the old ways may work better for you but they don't work for non religious Americans and this land is for all of us. And for the record, I don't think this society is going to shit other than I can't believe people vote Republican. To me, that's why the middle class is struggling and the rich are richer than ever. Reality TV for example, the Apprentice. It's all making us stupid. That's why Trump won. Anti science, denying global warming, against common sense gun legislation. All the mass shootings. I can't believe there haven't been any rampages since the coronavirus started.

3. Yes, today Catholics and other Christians get along. Kind of hard to call bullshit on their story when your story is basically the same story right? So I can see why you don't call them out for the stupid shit they believe. Same way you guys don't call bullshit on the Muslim or Mormon religions. But the truth is, the Mormon story is that your religion is no longer valid. That's pretty insulting no?

4. So Iran and Saudi Arabia are in a better place than we are? I mean, they don't have separation of church and state. Are they better than us? They probably don't allow abortion and they probably have less divorces. Do you want to move to one of those countries? I don't think so.

5. My mom always said if she were to join another church she'd become a Jew too. I love it. You remind me of my mom and grandmother. Both were fun to talk to about things like religion and politics.

You did not understand one word I said. But you sure made up a lot of conclusions.

 

[Meriweather]

where most other religious groups were as divided as the American people as a whole.

Precisely. Take religion out of it and try to face what is going on. A group of fed up people fighting Washington D.C. It is not about President Trump. It is about D.C.

 

[ding]

Ideologues are gonna Ideologue.

 

[ding]

I was simply offering it as an exception to the rule. And, yes, her parents are still kicking. My wife and I both adore them now and visit often. Her brother remains my best friend. She just went nuts. I forgave her long ago and just feel sorry for her now. But, yeah, as a rule? Lawyer up! Definitely! LOL

You know why you forgave her? Jesus.

You can make fun of it but forgiveness is a successful behavior. So is being thankful and humble.

One could argue they are the father, son and holy ghost of behaviors who come together to form objectivity.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

YouTube described this video as recommended for me. So like a good dog I watched it believing that it might shed some light on how Einstein got it so wrong. No such luck. Some obvious, important errors and omissions, such as zero mention of Tesla for example, sadly revealing how stuffy, defensive, revisionist, and parochial the conventional wisdom remains. However, that said, it's vastly delightful, inspiring, and refreshingly focused upon the actual, useful science we still vastly must rely upon today since Einstein all but destroyed interest in that sort of science - a life's devotion to rigorous fundamental experiments and meticulous note taking. Also, surprisingly, the guy effectively admits to the Aether existing (albeit with name changed) toward the end despite repeatedly insisting otherwise earlier. So Michelson's instincts were right all along, but they'll keep claiming the opposite come hell or high water.

You misrepresent him and scientists. All that is admitted is the possibility of an "aether", but it is quite different than the older ideas of what it was.

 

[Grumblenuts]

YouTube described this video as recommended for me. So like a good dog I watched it believing that it might shed some light on how Einstein got it so wrong. No such luck. Some obvious, important errors and omissions, such as zero mention of Tesla for example, sadly revealing how stuffy, defensive, revisionist, and parochial the conventional wisdom remains. However, that said, it's vastly delightful, inspiring, and refreshingly focused upon the actual, useful science we still vastly must rely upon today since Einstein all but destroyed interest in that sort of science - a life's devotion to rigorous fundamental experiments and meticulous note taking. Also, surprisingly, the guy effectively admits to the Aether existing (albeit with name changed) toward the end despite repeatedly insisting otherwise earlier. So Michelson's instincts were right all along, but they'll keep claiming the opposite come hell or high water.

You misrepresent him and scientists. All that is admitted is the possibility of an "aether", but it is quite different than the older ideas of what it was.

Not really, but I agree to disagree. Let's not do this here.