Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

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It's not my interpretation. The language is clear. The message sent to the children was clear. The only one who has to put any effort into "interpreting" it to mean something other than what it clearly says is you. Because it embarrasses you.
No it doesn't. Not only am I working off a more accurate translation, but seem to have more information on Mark 16:16 than was presented to you. What astonishes me is that even as a child you knew something about what someone was teaching you wasn't making sense, but then as an adult you did nothing to pursue the truth.

So...what I feel is not embarrassment, but rather amusement that someone with a child's understanding thinks I can be embarrassed by such a limited interpretation.

A reminder I first heard from someone of the Jewish faith: Scripture is to be studied, not read. I highly recommend it.
No it doesn't. Not only am I working off a more accurate translation, but seem to have more information on Mark 16:16 than was presented to you.
.
another forgery written into their bible -

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 2 John 1:9-11

they likewise refuse to admonish.
Notice how much more work the apologist has to do to make a clear sentence mean something other than what it obviously means. While all others have to do is simply read it left to right. At least it keeps him busy.
I really do hope you act like this in real life.
 

Hollie

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I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.
IMHO, the fear of death, fear of the unknown and a search for meaning is at the heart of the religious impulse. We are driven by the despair of our own mortality to generate meaning and purpose for ourselves. I think this is all the result of the unavoidable psychological conflict between our basic instinct for survival and the intellectual realization of our own mortality. We find meaning in self transcendent acts and concepts. By reaching out beyond ourselves to find connections to larger communities and realities we somehow escape our own mortalities, at least symbolically. If our creative efforts, or our children, or our communities, or our species, survive our own personal mortality, we gain a symbolic sense of immortality through our connections to these things. If the rigorous pursuit of scientific knowledge through reason contributes to the health of the planet and the survival of our species, it is profoundly meaningful. We place our trust and our hope in things which give us a sense of meaning and a way to cope with despair.

Whatever our ultimate source of meaning or object of hope, and through all the irrational fears mankind has been victimized by, various gods have been invented both as the cause and relief from those fears. Irrationality is the great sin which threatens to devour us. The question then becomes, is the health of the planet, and the survival of our species actually promoted by an irrational belief in the currently configure gods.

The only "condemning aspect" of my life is the Christian based idea that as an imperfect being I deserve Hell by default. I'm fairly honest, I work hard, I love my friends and family, etc.-- in short, I'm your average person who lives a quiet life dealing with life's challenges. I cannot imagine rating eternal torment because I don't acquiesce to the Christian- defined salvation program. I ask myself:

"Which is more likely: That there's really this angry god out there who would actually behave that way, or it's really in the religion's interest to establish a social dynamic where eternal torment is the outcome for not joining in that religion and btw supporting it financially. What's more likely, man needs a savior for being human, or the Church, an entity of sweeping power for more than a thousand years, needs to convince me I need them and only them?"

I think the answer is really obvious and simple. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such a god who would condemn me for such a trivial issue, nor can I do anything about the fact (my term) that after death it's nothing but a dreamless sleep. Both are equally depressing, hopeless, and bleak, and there's a marginal difference between condemning most people who ever existed to an eternity of despair versus everyone being condemned to an eternity of nothingness. It's hopeless because if such a god exists, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment.
 

Meriweather

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How does anyone study supernatural events?
There is nothing supernatural about the written word (scripture).

In an earlier post you clearly reject the idea of an angry God, a God who pounces on you for not doing this, that, or the other, a God who rejects you for being a nice person. What I find odd about this is that apparently you can comprehend such a God and also have no trouble believing people worship such a God.

I continue to recommend, first seek God. This results in the awe of knowing that God is love, apparently well hidden Bible verses. With the certainty of knowing God's love, the Bible presents itself quite differently. The themes, the lessons, and the context the original authors presented come into light.

Reading the Bible with no understanding of God's love is like reading the Bible in darkness.
 

zaangalewa

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We live in a physical world. God is spirit. What physical evidence is expected to materialize?
None. Spirit is a magical idea. No evidence for or against magic can be found, by definition.
I don't have any idea why so many people in the world don't see what's directly in front of their ears. What is your scribbling here? What do I hear when I read it? Is it expression of your matter or expression of your spirit? Indeed I do not even use your language for my thoughts and I understand what you say. A wonder. Or another very easy understandable example for spirit: The spirituality of physics we call normally mathematics. Try to do physics without mathematics and it will not be very successful. But you are right: Spirit is indeed a magical idea of god. Ask one of the three magi, who we call normally the three holy kings of wisdom.
 
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Fort Fun Indiana

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Or another example: The spirituality of pyhsics we call normally mathematics.
That's not what is meant by "God is spirit". It's a magical idea. "Transcends the material"... said over and over, in this thread.

The only way evidence is possible is in a material, deterministic framework. If no determinism (causality), no evidence. Enter "magic!", and you have already disqualified yourself from use of any evidence.
 

zaangalewa

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As I noted...Scripture is best studied, not read.
I don't disagree, but probably for somewhat different reasons. I am glad you read it the way you do. I think it makes you not a fundamentalist.
I am a fundamentalist. My fundament is the Christian faith. What the people today often call "fundamentalists" are godless terrorists and extremists.
 

zaangalewa

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Or another example: The spirituality of pyhsics we call normally mathematics.
That's not what is meant by "God is spirit". It's a magical idea. "Transcends the material"... said over and over, in this thread.
No one here spoke about transcendence. You started with this theme here now.

The only way evidence is possible is in a material, deterministic framework. If no determinism (causality), no evidence. Enter "magic!", and you have already disqualified yourself from use of any evidence.
It's nonsense what you say here. Natural science is an expression of natural philosophy - and within this philosophy natural science is a reduction to the philosophy of empirism. This makes not anything else wrong what bases on other forms of philosophy.
 
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zaangalewa

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Lol Many atheists have faith or devotion to an ideology or dictator
If a dictator, then its just religion under a different name. If they attribute the dictator magical powers, it's just theism, under a different name.

Nobody is claiming all atheists lack faith of any kind. Just in gods. Some atheists, for example, have faith in homeopathic medicine.
Many atheists are irrational/superstitious.


Don’t you realize Marxism is a strictly materialist philosophy?

Marxist dupes served Lenin and Stalin but said dupes didn’t think Lenin and Stalin created the universe.
Did you notice what the Soviets did do with Lenin after his death? They made a kind of dead pharao out of him. With an immense expense they had to save the matter of his body, because they were not able to think his soul left his body. And they did not like to lose him. The more and more people have to save their bodies for the eternity the more and more comes back the slavery of death of the ancient Egypt culture.

Where is your evidence that a considerable number of people in the USSR thought Lenin or Stalin had godlike powers - maybe the ability to fly or alter the laws of nature? I know you like facts so you must have some available.

Atheists often look for a God-substitute. They may devote themselves to a political ideology or they may worship themselves, but they are still atheists.

They are also disappointed.
Let me say sarcastically: The Soviets never found the country (nor founded any country), where milk and honey flows.
 

zaangalewa

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You are so happy with how it reads and your interpretation of it
It's not my interpretation. The language is clear. The message sent to the children was clear. The only one who has to put any effort into "interpreting" it to mean something other than what it clearly says is you. Because it embarrasses you.
There are 31,102 verses in the Bible.
It's not my interpretation. The language is clear. The message sent to the children was clear.
.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16)
they spent a century writing the christian bible 300 years past the relevant event for their religion - the above is only one of countless and purposeful forgeries all written for duplicitous reasons.

not one of the adherents above are willing to correct their errors that explains the uninterupted history of all three desert religions of persecuition and victimization of the innocent from those times to the present day.
Are you interested in finding one of the mistakes, which you made here?
 

Hollie

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How does anyone study supernatural events?
There is nothing supernatural about the written word (scripture).

In an earlier post you clearly reject the idea of an angry God, a God who pounces on you for not doing this, that, or the other, a God who rejects you for being a nice person. What I find odd about this is that apparently you can comprehend such a God and also have no trouble believing people worship such a God.

I continue to recommend, first seek God. This results in the awe of knowing that God is love, apparently well hidden Bible verses. With the certainty of knowing God's love, the Bible presents itself quite differently. The themes, the lessons, and the context the original authors presented come into light.

Reading the Bible with no understanding of God's love is like reading the Bible in darkness.
The ''written word'' consists of an assembly of many, largely unknown authors who wrote of supernatural events.

I'm not sure how you interpreted any of my comments as rejecting the idea of an angry god. The Hebrew portion of the Bible in particular depicts a viciously angry, vindictive god who is only marginally less angry in Christian theology. A ''god of love'' who behaves as is delineated in the Bible is an utter contradiction.
 

zaangalewa

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How does anyone study supernatural events?
There is nothing supernatural about the written word (scripture).

In an earlier post you clearly reject the idea of an angry God, a God who pounces on you for not doing this, that, or the other, a God who rejects you for being a nice person. What I find odd about this is that apparently you can comprehend such a God and also have no trouble believing people worship such a God.

I continue to recommend, first seek God. This results in the awe of knowing that God is love, apparently well hidden Bible verses. With the certainty of knowing God's love, the Bible presents itself quite differently. The themes, the lessons, and the context the original authors presented come into light.

Reading the Bible with no understanding of God's love is like reading the Bible in darkness.
The ''written word'' consists of an assembly of many, largely unknown authors who wrote of supernatural events.

I'm not sure how you interpreted any of my comments as rejecting the idea of an angry god. The Hebrew portion of the Bible in particular depicts a viciously angry, vindictive god who is only marginally less angry in Christian theology. A ''god of love'' who behaves as is delineated in the Bible is an utter contradiction.
God of creation and god of love are the same. No contradiction. Example: Noah saved all life - and only the people, who did not like to survive and continued to be a threat for the survival per se died out. The alternative would had been: A dead planet without any living animals. Now it's our decision what we do with all life on this planet - and looks like we made the decision to murder the planet. So who lacks love? God or we?

 
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Hollie

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How does anyone study supernatural events?
There is nothing supernatural about the written word (scripture).

In an earlier post you clearly reject the idea of an angry God, a God who pounces on you for not doing this, that, or the other, a God who rejects you for being a nice person. What I find odd about this is that apparently you can comprehend such a God and also have no trouble believing people worship such a God.

I continue to recommend, first seek God. This results in the awe of knowing that God is love, apparently well hidden Bible verses. With the certainty of knowing God's love, the Bible presents itself quite differently. The themes, the lessons, and the context the original authors presented come into light.

Reading the Bible with no understanding of God's love is like reading the Bible in darkness.
The ''written word'' consists of an assembly of many, largely unknown authors who wrote of supernatural events.

I'm not sure how you interpreted any of my comments as rejecting the idea of an angry god. The Hebrew portion of the Bible in particular depicts a viciously angry, vindictive god who is only marginally less angry in Christian theology. A ''god of love'' who behaves as is delineated in the Bible is an utter contradiction.
God of creation and god of love are the same. No contradiction. Example: Noah saved all life - and only the people, who did not like to survive and continued to be a threat for the survival per se died out. The alternative would had been: A dead planet without any life. Now it's our ecvsion what we do with all life on this planet -and looks like we made the decision to murder the planet. So who lacks love? God or we?
The Noah pleasure cruise fable was not a literal event. Stop the madness.
 

zaangalewa

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How does anyone study supernatural events?
There is nothing supernatural about the written word (scripture).

In an earlier post you clearly reject the idea of an angry God, a God who pounces on you for not doing this, that, or the other, a God who rejects you for being a nice person. What I find odd about this is that apparently you can comprehend such a God and also have no trouble believing people worship such a God.

I continue to recommend, first seek God. This results in the awe of knowing that God is love, apparently well hidden Bible verses. With the certainty of knowing God's love, the Bible presents itself quite differently. The themes, the lessons, and the context the original authors presented come into light.

Reading the Bible with no understanding of God's love is like reading the Bible in darkness.
The ''written word'' consists of an assembly of many, largely unknown authors who wrote of supernatural events.

I'm not sure how you interpreted any of my comments as rejecting the idea of an angry god. The Hebrew portion of the Bible in particular depicts a viciously angry, vindictive god who is only marginally less angry in Christian theology. A ''god of love'' who behaves as is delineated in the Bible is an utter contradiction.
God of creation and god of love are the same. No contradiction. Example: Noah saved all life - and only the people, who did not like to survive and continued to be a threat for the survival per se died out. The alternative would had been: A dead planet without any life. Now it's our ecvsion what we do with all life on this planet -and looks like we made the decision to murder the planet. So who lacks love? God or we?
The Noah pleasure cruise fable was not a literal event. Stop the madness.
But we murder the planet really, isn't it? Although every child could know this is wrong and everyone should save all and every life.

By the way: Long years ago here in Germany some people rewrote the bible and called this result "bible in just language". They replaced all famous male persons with females. Also god became a woman. A bishop had to laugh a lot, when he found out they had forgotten someone: the devil still was male.

Question: Did you ever attack god because of a mass-murderer around the story of Noah? ... I'm sure you did. Isn't it? Lots of our "critics" do so. ... Not a literal event you say now? ... Sure? ...
 

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