Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

Fort Fun Indiana

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"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16)

The Pastor wasn't just pulling things out of his ass. He was reading to us directly from his bronze aged handbook.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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Were you taught anything that had little or nothing to do with hell that had a positive effect on how you live your life?
Nope, cant say that i was. And there is no moral statement a religious person can make that a non religious person can not, anyway. Even if i had been told to "be good to people", i wouldn't attribute that to religion. One doesn't need religion to figure that out. My kids sure didn't.
 

ding

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I seriously doubt that.
So what? You aren't credible. Yes, in fact, our pastor was very adamant about this. As it turns out, it is doctrine. Now go on, try to gaslight everyone for 10 pages, because you are uncomfortable. I will leave you to it.
I call BS on this. You did not hear it ALL the time.
 

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"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16)

The Pastor wasn't just pulling things out of his ass. He was reading to us directly from his bronze aged handbook.
That's one. Now show all the others. Then when you are done compare that number to the number of verses you didn't quote.

There are 31,102 verses in the Bible.
 
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Tom Paine 1949

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I
Probably most children. I know i went to a moderate lutheran church and i heard it all the time.

Putting me under the watch of a man (our pastor) who threatened me to believe every word or suffer forever was a form of child abuse. Luckily i already was fairly well educated and laughed these threats off.
Were you taught anything that had little or nothing to do with hell that had a positive effect on how you live your life?
I think our personal experiences are a good place to keep the discussion. This is a good question. Personally, as a kid I never heard a single threat uttered about damnation, though my Catholic friends sure did. Some silly stories, sure, those we all heard. My parents and my friends’ parents just provided us kids with a milieu and a tolerant tradition. Jewish mostly, but not entirely, and not narrowly so. Actual belief in God disappeared intellectually when I was about nine. But I never “learned” to be an atheist. Just one day my friends and I started stepping on the cracks in the sidewalk and daring God to punish us ... and he didn’t. My best friends and I grew up thinking religious intolerance was silly, that it would die out completely. I was amazed when it didn’t. I confess I had superstitions and fear of the dark even after my baby “epiphany”!
 
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You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

  • Atheist - There is no god.
  • Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
  • Secular - Lack of religion.
  • Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
  • Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
  • Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
  • Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
  • Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
  • Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
  • Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
  • Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
  • Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
  • Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
  • Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
  • Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.
What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.
There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.
Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.
 

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I
Probably most children. I know i went to a moderate lutheran church and i heard it all the time.

Putting me under the watch of a man (our pastor) who threatened me to believe every word or suffer forever was a form of child abuse. Luckily i already was fairly well educated and laughed these threats off.
Were you taught anything that had little or nothing to do with hell that had a positive effect on how you live your life?
I think our personal experiences are a good place to keep the discussion. This is a good question. Personally, as a kid I never heard a single threat uttered about damnation, though my Catholic friends sure did. Some silly stories, sure, those we all heard. My parents and my friends’ parents just provided us kids with a milieu and a tolerant tradition. Jewish mostly, but not entirely, and not narrowly so. Actual belief in God disappeared intellectually when I was about nine. But I never “learned” to be an atheist. Just one day my friends and I started stepping on the cracks in the sidewalk and daring God to punish us ... and he didn’t. My best friends and I grew up thinking religious intolerance was silly, that it would die out completely. I was amazed when it didn’t. I confess I had superstitions and fear of the dark even after my baby “epiphany.” :nocknockHT:
I can tell you from my Catholic upbringing, hell wasn't discussed at all that I can remember.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16)
What else do you know about Mark 16:16?
Doesn't matter what i know. What matters is that reading this to a child has clear intent. And you are not going to squirm and equivocate your way out of it.
 

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Context is everything. Cherry picking is for fools.

One must see the whole picture, lest he be made the fool.
 

Meriweather

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as a kid I never heard a single threat uttered about damnation, though my Catholic friends sure did.
As someone who went through Catholic school, and later taught religion to Catholic students, I seriously doubt this. As I mentioned earlier, in my entire life, in any number of parishes throughout the US, I have only heard three homilies on hell.

In Catholic school, our lesson on hell was as follows: A person was given a vision of hell. Everyone was sitting around a large table and there was a feast spread out in the middle of the table. Everyone had a long spoon to reach the food, but everyone was miserable because although the spoon could reach the food, it was too long to bring what was on the spoon in reach of the mouth.

The person was then shown a vision of heaven. To his astonishment it was the same setting, with people sitting around a large table, food in the middle, and a long spoon to reach the food. Everyone was laughing, talking, and having a good time because...they were feeding each other.

We were told that God does not send people to hell. People choose to go there.
 

Meriweather

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Doesn't matter what i know. What matters is that reading this to a child has clear intent. And you are not going to squirm and equivocate your way out of it.
Shrug. Why would I want to? You are so happy with how it reads and your interpretation of it. Far be it from me to take this happiness from you. I was just curious if you ever cared to discuss or research this passage with anyone once you were an adult...given that as a child it didn't make a lot of sense.
 

Tom Paine 1949

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as a kid I never heard a single threat uttered about damnation, though my Catholic friends sure did.
As someone who went through Catholic school, and later taught religion to Catholic students, I seriously doubt this. As I mentioned earlier, in my entire life, in any number of parishes throughout the US, I have only heard three homilies on hell.

In Catholic school, our lesson on hell was as follows: A person was given a vision of hell. Everyone was sitting around a large table and there was a feast spread out in the middle of the table. Everyone had a long spoon to reach the food, but everyone was miserable because although the spoon could reach the food, it was too long to bring what was on the spoon in reach of the mouth.

The person was then shown a vision of heaven. To his astonishment it was the same setting, with people sitting around a large table, food in the middle, and a long spoon to reach the food. Everyone was laughing, talking, and having a good time because...they were feeding each other.

We were told that God does not send people to hell. People choose to go there.
That’s a good story. I think I heard it before. My memory may be poor. I’m 71. The Catholic kids certainly had sterner memories about Catholic education. The girls too. But I could be confused. :nocknockHT:
 
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Fort Fun Indiana

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You are so happy with how it reads and your interpretation of it
It's not my interpretation. The language is clear. The message sent to the children was clear. The only one who has to put any effort into "interpreting" it to mean something other than what it clearly says is you. Because it embarrasses you.
 

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I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.
Explain gravity.
 

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Certainly atheist cultures have embraced mass murder.
Some problems with your red herring:

1) This doesn't lend support to any of your claims
2) Stalinism was its own religion. You are mistaken to say stalinists were atheists. Stalin was a god like figure, and presented himself as such. His mass murder was in the name of religion: Stalinism.

Just as North Korea is the most religious state in the world. The Kim family are the gods.
So ridiculous! Lol Many atheists have faith or devotion to an ideology or dictator.

Are you really trying to tell us Stalin’s League of Militant Atheists were not atheists??

When atheists reject God they often turn in desperation to some shouting supposed superman.

More on atheist intolerance and mass murder:
 
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Meriweather

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That’s a good story. My memory may be poor. I’m 71. The Catholic kids certainly had sterner memories about Catholic education. The girls too. But I could be confused.
When I was in Catholic school, for years there were 54 students in my class, one teacher. Teachers (nun and lay people) were strict with us. They had to be 54 vs 1. These days I am in awe of them, every time I am given a class of 36. We were never struck, we were never stood in a corner, we were simply expected to behave. At. all. times.

I do remember comparing notes with another Catholic student once I hit college. We were taught by different orders of nun. I do remember this girl telling me, "We didn't have the order of nuns you had. We had the Sisters of Mercy--and they had none." So it could be there are different experiences...but I've been to so many Catholic churches and Catholic schools your comment did strike me as odd.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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Lol Many atheists have faith or devotion to an ideology or dictator
If a dictator, then its just religion under a different name. If they attribute the dictator magical powers, it's just theism, under a different name.

Nobody is claiming all atheists lack faith of any kind. Just in gods. Some atheists, for example, have faith in homeopathic medicine.
 

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