SavannahMann
Platinum Member
- Nov 16, 2016
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Yes the nation is in a lot of troubleI hesitate to agree with sociology professors who are almost as useless journalism teachers.
But I agree that society is so divided that it could end in a bloodbath of competing ideologies
All right. Now take a step back. Look at the two parties. Not just this election. But every election you can remember. If you are at least as old as I am you remember when they debated policies and idealism. A vote for Democrats generally speaking meant more pay for the civil servants. A vote for Republicans generally meant more defense spending. America was a pendulum swinging back and forth. Not much. Just a little bit here and there.
Democrats meant slightly higher taxes. Republicans meant slightly lower. Nothing that the average family would really notice. It generally meant a night at the movies for a family of four every month. Or no night at the movies for the family of four.
Now look at it. Deep down each side knows they are no better than the other. The policy questions are bullshit. Both parties do exactly the same thing. The arguments now are who do you want in charge of the corrupt system? If Democrats are in charge they will use the corrupt system to target you. If our side is in charge we will use the same corruption to target them. Let them get a taste of their own medicine. That will teach them.
Nobody and I mean nobody is ever going to end the corruption. Nobody is going to abolish the FISA courts no matter how many abuses are exposed. Nobody is going to shut down the NSA and FBI data mining systems. You could argue it is to protect the nation. And some might believe it a little. But most of us know even if we don’t admit it that the entire thing is wrong.
So why do we go along? We go along because we are afraid of being soft on Terrorists. Think about it. Every time some surveillance program is mentioned the Heads of those departments run out and scream that without this program they have been abusing daily we would be victims of terrorism and child predators. Nobody likes child predators and anyone who says the abused system should be shut down must be a pedophile.
So we pretend that the same FBI that has been corrupt since J. Edger Hoover was in charge is going to straighten up and fly right. We pretend that the rank and file are just like us and we would never do that. It is the bosses. It is the other political party. It is the appointees who screwed it up.
When the FBI Black Bag Jobs were exposed. The FBI went to Congress and testified that there would never be another Black Bag Job. They kept doing them. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So no more Black Bag Jobs.
When Carnivore was exposed. They promised it was shut down. No more Carnivore Email interceptions. Of course not. A totally updated and improved program was already working with a new name. Still doing the same things only with a new name.
That has been the pattern. And both parties enable it. We never stop the abuses. We just rename them
We are doomed. And we will not scream in outrage when it falls. We won’t even whimper. We will cheer that they are going to be dealt with once and for all. I just don’t know who the They will be. But I do know the Republic is dead. Like a victim twitching after death. Stray electrical signals sending random twitches to hands and feet. And we cheered all along this path.
But for me turning my back giving up is not the solution
nor in spite of what you tell us is it your solution either
if it were you would not be on this forum to begin with
so I’ll keep fighting for what I believe no matter how futile it might be
The question isn’t if you or I fight. The question is what side we fight on, and do we dare win?
Let’s say for the sake of argument that the Republicans sweep the House and Senate and Trump wins reelection. Now what? The entire purpose of the Constitution was to restrict Government, not the people. The reason behind the Second was so that the Government would fear the people, not people fearing the Government.
The Government will still be corrupt. It will still be targeting people. It will still be abusing the rights of people. But it will be “our” side doing the abusing.
It was an old joke. Nobody is opposed to a dictatorship, so long as they are the dictator. In other words, if you were the one with absolute power, you would be perfectly satisfied that this system made sense. If anyone else has that power, it would not make sense. Douglas Adams wrote that anyone who wanted to be President, probably shouldn’t be allowed to have the job. I thought it was funny the first time I read it, now I think it was prophetic.
I’ve written before. The only outcomes I see from this election is either left wing totalitarian regime, or right win totalitarian regime. Nobody can change the course now. So by voting and supporting one party over the other, you are choosing one hell for another.
Actually Hell is a bad term. Between War and Hell, War is worse. The teachings of the churches are that nobody is in Hell by mistake. There are no innocents in Hell. There are so many innocents in War.
So by supporting Republicans, and voting Republican, and encouraging others to vote Republican, you are choosing the RW Totalitarian Regime. The point isn’t right wing or left wing. The point is totalitarian regime.
What I fight for, and argue for, is always the same. The Constitution. Period. I will always argue for your rights. Your right to free speech. The right of the free press. The right of the people to their rights when accused of a crime. Your right to keep and bear arms. All of those rights are vital. They are like a fabric, woven with intent. You can’t pull at one thread without weakening the entire fabric. Ever since the Constitution was ratified, we have spent millions of hours trying to get around, or to minimize those rights.
You have the right to be secure in your person or papers, free from unreasonable search and seizure. But what is unreasonable changes every time the question is raised. And each exception becomes the new rule, and the foundation of the next exception. If we are to allow this, we have to allow that. Until finally the right is so watered down it doesn’t matter. The right is essentially gone.
Right to an attorney. Simple one. You ask for an attorney, you get one. Well, no. Not really. A man was being questioned, and told the police he wanted a lawyer. His exact words were. “Get me a lawyer dog.” The courts decided that there were no canines admitted to the BAR, so there were no lawyer dogs, and thus the request was not proper. The courts have decided that your right to an attorney depends entirely on your phrasing. Water down the right just a little.
Why? Why do we do this? Because we as people are jealous and envious and want them whoever they are, to pay. 155 high income households paid their lawyers and accountants to find every possible loophole and paid no taxes. How outrageous. We can’t let them get away with that. So we cranked up the Alternative Minimum Tax. To insure that they paid. The Government came up with the rules, and the exceptions to the taxes, and then got angry when someone actually used them.
We do that all the time. We have to make sure they don’t get away with this, or that. We punish clever people. We punish the ones who figure out the rules, and how to take advantage of them. We punish those people because they are cheating by using the rules that someone else made. We can’t let them get away with it.
Even today people are outraged when Exxon or some oil company uses the rules to cut their taxes. Sometimes actually paying nothing. How is this possible? They created enticements for carpooling, one tax break. They used green energy in their offices, another tax break. They used energy efficient water and electrical fixtures. The bastards. They put solar panels on the offices where they directed the production of fossil fuels to contribute to greenhouse gasses. Outrageous. People want to make sure they pay. It isn’t fair.
We walked willingly down the rabbit hole. We marched in lockstep. We sacrificed our liberty for security decades ago, long before 9-11. And we got neither. We Cheered. We believed the propaganda. And now, we are on the precipice and there is no way back, do we jump left, or right? It doesn’t really matter. The fall may not kill us, but the sudden stop at the end, surely will.