Onlookers laugh and cheer as police officer is beaten on live Facebook feed

[SavannahMann]

I hesitate to agree with sociology professors who are almost as useless journalism teachers.

But I agree that society is so divided that it could end in a bloodbath of competing ideologies

All right. Now take a step back. Look at the two parties. Not just this election. But every election you can remember. If you are at least as old as I am you remember when they debated policies and idealism. A vote for Democrats generally speaking meant more pay for the civil servants. A vote for Republicans generally meant more defense spending. America was a pendulum swinging back and forth. Not much. Just a little bit here and there.

Democrats meant slightly higher taxes. Republicans meant slightly lower. Nothing that the average family would really notice. It generally meant a night at the movies for a family of four every month. Or no night at the movies for the family of four.

Now look at it. Deep down each side knows they are no better than the other. The policy questions are bullshit. Both parties do exactly the same thing. The arguments now are who do you want in charge of the corrupt system? If Democrats are in charge they will use the corrupt system to target you. If our side is in charge we will use the same corruption to target them. Let them get a taste of their own medicine. That will teach them.

Nobody and I mean nobody is ever going to end the corruption. Nobody is going to abolish the FISA courts no matter how many abuses are exposed. Nobody is going to shut down the NSA and FBI data mining systems. You could argue it is to protect the nation. And some might believe it a little. But most of us know even if we don’t admit it that the entire thing is wrong.

So why do we go along? We go along because we are afraid of being soft on Terrorists. Think about it. Every time some surveillance program is mentioned the Heads of those departments run out and scream that without this program they have been abusing daily we would be victims of terrorism and child predators. Nobody likes child predators and anyone who says the abused system should be shut down must be a pedophile.

So we pretend that the same FBI that has been corrupt since J. Edger Hoover was in charge is going to straighten up and fly right. We pretend that the rank and file are just like us and we would never do that. It is the bosses. It is the other political party. It is the appointees who screwed it up.

When the FBI Black Bag Jobs were exposed. The FBI went to Congress and testified that there would never be another Black Bag Job. They kept doing them. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So no more Black Bag Jobs.
When Carnivore was exposed. They promised it was shut down. No more Carnivore Email interceptions. Of course not. A totally updated and improved program was already working with a new name. Still doing the same things only with a new name.

That has been the pattern. And both parties enable it. We never stop the abuses. We just rename them

We are doomed. And we will not scream in outrage when it falls. We won’t even whimper. We will cheer that they are going to be dealt with once and for all. I just don’t know who the They will be. But I do know the Republic is dead. Like a victim twitching after death. Stray electrical signals sending random twitches to hands and feet. And we cheered all along this path.

Yes the nation is in a lot of trouble

But for me turning my back giving up is not the solution

nor in spite of what you tell us is it your solution either

if it were you would not be on this forum to begin with

so I’ll keep fighting for what I believe no matter how futile it might be

The question isn’t if you or I fight. The question is what side we fight on, and do we dare win?

Let’s say for the sake of argument that the Republicans sweep the House and Senate and Trump wins reelection. Now what? The entire purpose of the Constitution was to restrict Government, not the people. The reason behind the Second was so that the Government would fear the people, not people fearing the Government.

The Government will still be corrupt. It will still be targeting people. It will still be abusing the rights of people. But it will be “our” side doing the abusing.

It was an old joke. Nobody is opposed to a dictatorship, so long as they are the dictator. In other words, if you were the one with absolute power, you would be perfectly satisfied that this system made sense. If anyone else has that power, it would not make sense. Douglas Adams wrote that anyone who wanted to be President, probably shouldn’t be allowed to have the job. I thought it was funny the first time I read it, now I think it was prophetic.

I’ve written before. The only outcomes I see from this election is either left wing totalitarian regime, or right win totalitarian regime. Nobody can change the course now. So by voting and supporting one party over the other, you are choosing one hell for another.

Actually Hell is a bad term. Between War and Hell, War is worse. The teachings of the churches are that nobody is in Hell by mistake. There are no innocents in Hell. There are so many innocents in War.

So by supporting Republicans, and voting Republican, and encouraging others to vote Republican, you are choosing the RW Totalitarian Regime. The point isn’t right wing or left wing. The point is totalitarian regime.

What I fight for, and argue for, is always the same. The Constitution. Period. I will always argue for your rights. Your right to free speech. The right of the free press. The right of the people to their rights when accused of a crime. Your right to keep and bear arms. All of those rights are vital. They are like a fabric, woven with intent. You can’t pull at one thread without weakening the entire fabric. Ever since the Constitution was ratified, we have spent millions of hours trying to get around, or to minimize those rights.

You have the right to be secure in your person or papers, free from unreasonable search and seizure. But what is unreasonable changes every time the question is raised. And each exception becomes the new rule, and the foundation of the next exception. If we are to allow this, we have to allow that. Until finally the right is so watered down it doesn’t matter. The right is essentially gone.

Right to an attorney. Simple one. You ask for an attorney, you get one. Well, no. Not really. A man was being questioned, and told the police he wanted a lawyer. His exact words were. “Get me a lawyer dog.” The courts decided that there were no canines admitted to the BAR, so there were no lawyer dogs, and thus the request was not proper. The courts have decided that your right to an attorney depends entirely on your phrasing. Water down the right just a little.

Why? Why do we do this? Because we as people are jealous and envious and want them whoever they are, to pay. 155 high income households paid their lawyers and accountants to find every possible loophole and paid no taxes. How outrageous. We can’t let them get away with that. So we cranked up the Alternative Minimum Tax. To insure that they paid. The Government came up with the rules, and the exceptions to the taxes, and then got angry when someone actually used them.

We do that all the time. We have to make sure they don’t get away with this, or that. We punish clever people. We punish the ones who figure out the rules, and how to take advantage of them. We punish those people because they are cheating by using the rules that someone else made. We can’t let them get away with it.

Even today people are outraged when Exxon or some oil company uses the rules to cut their taxes. Sometimes actually paying nothing. How is this possible? They created enticements for carpooling, one tax break. They used green energy in their offices, another tax break. They used energy efficient water and electrical fixtures. The bastards. They put solar panels on the offices where they directed the production of fossil fuels to contribute to greenhouse gasses. Outrageous. People want to make sure they pay. It isn’t fair.

We walked willingly down the rabbit hole. We marched in lockstep. We sacrificed our liberty for security decades ago, long before 9-11. And we got neither. We Cheered. We believed the propaganda. And now, we are on the precipice and there is no way back, do we jump left, or right? It doesn’t really matter. The fall may not kill us, but the sudden stop at the end, surely will.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Disgusting beyond words.


Video captures man beating police officer as some onlookers cheered





'Ingraham Angle' voter focus group reacts to final 2020 debate
'Mama, they just shot us for nothing': Illinois police officer fatally shoots Black teen, injures woman
Video captures man beating police officer as some onlookers cheered
Video captures man beating police officer as some onlookers cheered
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View attachment 405497A North Carolina police officer was beaten during a Facebook Live video while some onlookers laughed and cheered on the attacker.

© Provided by Washington Examiner"Let 'em whup his a--! Let 'em whup his a--!” one man is heard saying in a nearly 11-minute video of the attack.
"Don't you let that man take you to f---in' jail!" was also heard being yelled.

Some in the crowd urged bystanders to help the officer.

Video captures man beating police officer as some onlookers cheered

Like the cops never beat up anybody.

Well I guess that makes it ok then.

 

[Mac-7]

I’ve written before. The only outcomes I see from this election is either left wing totalitarian regime, or right win totalitarian regime.

I dont think trump is or will be a dictator, and the same goes for the republicans in congress

and you can look at the states for examples to go by

California is a one-party state that may never elect a republican again

I think its the model for what liberals want to do for the whole country

what you should appreciate about trump is that he’s not an inside washington swamp rat

democrats and republicans hate him because he’s not one of him and that should make you happy

 

[SavannahMann]

I’ve written before. The only outcomes I see from this election is either left wing totalitarian regime, or right win totalitarian regime.

I dont think trump is or will be a dictator, and the same goes for the republicans in congress

and you can look at the states for examples to go by

California is a one-party state that may never elect a republican again

I think its the model for what liberals want to do for the whole country

what you should appreciate about trump is that he’s not an inside washington swamp rat

democrats and republicans hate him because he’s not one of him and that should make you happy

The biggest problem with Trump is he won’t listen, or learn. To quote the movie Patriot. A man can have his rights abused by a parliament of three thousand people one mile away, as easily as one man three thousand miles away.

Trump isn’t trying to reign in the abuses. He is trying to control them towards his enemies. He isn’t dismantling the systems designed to control us, he is trying to take control of those groups to direct them towards targets he designates. His Tweet a few days ago. He is determined to fire the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, and the rest. A plan that I and history call a Loyalty Purge. Stalin was a big fan of them.

If he finds those who are loyal, the only change will be that these systems will be directed at those Enemies that Trump identifies. The abuses continue. And can you honestly say that you won’t be the target?

We don’t need a Trump, or a Biden to save us. We need a pyromaniac who will burn the entire system to the ground. Abolish the FBI. Slash the courts. Shut down the NSA, Homeland Insecurity, and the rest. Create new organizations with strict limits, and strict oversight.

The very first thing, pardon anyone who has been convicted or charged under the Espionage Act. You know how that was passed, and when right? President Wilson demanded it. To protect the Soldiers and Troops off to fight World War One. That wasn’t the real purpose.

Wilson overrode the State Department and instructed, ordered, them to transmit and receive German Diplomatic Messages in German Code, in direct violation of the understood rules of Neutrality. One of those messages was the Zimmerman Telegram, which was the straw that sent us into war with Germany during War One. If the people had learned that Wilson had done this, had actually ordered that the State Department deliver a message instructing the German Ambassadors to organize a war against us by Mexico, Impeachment would have been certain, the public probably would have stormed the White House and torn him limb from limb.

Hence the Espionage Act. It became illegal to reveal secret information. It became illegal to print that information. Reporters could be held accountable if they revealed secrets.

It changed the entire system. No longer was it incumbent upon someone to not speak these secrets. Now it was expected that no one listen and certainly not repeat.

So every person since who has come out and spoken to the Reporters to expose an abuse by our Government has faced charges under the Espionage act. Passed not to protect the lives of our troops. But to protect a well placed individual who feared exposure of his wrongdoing.

And how many times has it been used during the War on Terror? Even now we are pursing those charges against Snowden and others. People who exposed wrongdoing by the Government. Think about that. The people who expose the wrongs are the bad guys, not the ones doing the wrongs. Since when did the truth become something to fear? When did the Truth Talkers become the enemy? And what does that say about our own society?

Trump could have pardoned everyone but he didn’t. He wants them in jail. He wants them punished for telling the world Truth. For exposing the secrets to the public that showed how the Government was abusing our rights.

Trump isn’t hated because he will stop this shit. Trump is hated because he will manage it even more recklessly than it has been. The people in Government aren’t opposing Trump Because they fear his shutting them down or holding them accountable. They fear that they may be the target of his next loyalty purge.

I watched a Documentary on the Government of Secrets since 9-11. Everyone who was interviewed. Every one said they would do whatever it took to prevent another 9-11.

I joined the Army in the late 80’s. I took the oath while Reagan was President. I served through Bush to Clinton. I left the Army during the Clinton admin. I served under Republicans and Democrats. I was proud of my service until the mid 2000’s, when I realized everything I had fought against we had become. For a few years I was annoyed at Bush, and Obama for not stopping it.

I learned and realized during Obama that it would never be stopped. And I had been duped by propaganda just as the others had.

The thing I was fighting against was totalitarianism. The Rights in the Constitution are the only thing worth fighting for. The only thing worth siding with. And we all cheered when the Federal Agents became more like the Stasi than the Police we had grown up with. That fight was lost before I joined. It had the final nails put in the proverbial coffin before Trump was elected.

The Constitution. Obama pissed me off when he said that the Constitution only said what the Government couldn’t do, and it needed to say what the Government would do for you. Lawyers have centuries of legal precedent to back up that belief. And Trump isn’t fighting it, he’s trying to control it, for his gain.

Trump could go to Congress and say he wants to fight for Reform. He wants to hold the various agencies accountable. He wants to hold the people accountable. He could get legislation through defaulting the pensions of these people who are abusing our rights for the abuses. He could fight to remove Qualified Immunity. He could do a lot of things, but a loyalty purge, not the best or even a good thing.

Ask yourself this. What changes need to be made to end the corruption at all levels of Government? And if Trump is for that, why hasn’t he proposed legislation about it? Why hasn’t he used his authority to declassify things strictly using his own judgement to expose it? He has the power, and he doesn’t use it. He could pardon people and he isn’t. He could expose the secrets, and he won’t do that. You say he’s not a dictator, true enough. But he certainly isn’t helping, or even doing what you hope he would.

Instead, he is pushing even more of the same bullshit. Less than two percent of Opiod overdoses are people who are on prescriptions. Well we have an epidemic, and we’re going to make people suffer who are in chronic pain. We have to fight the Opioid Epidemic. Republicans argued that medicine should be between you and your Doctor when Obamacare was debated. And I thought, and said at the time, they were right. My Doctor and I will figure out what is best for me. Now, Doctors are being busted for writing prescriptions. What they can proscribe is being monitored and explanations must be provided when the Doctor treats a pain patient. How dare you treat that patient? Let them go home to suffer and die. That is what American needs.

We can’t control the illegal drugs coming in to the nation, so we’re going to punish people who get their medications properly and legally. Because after decades of wasted money and effort we are still losing the war on drugs. And like all the other examples of “we have to do something” failed, we’re going to keep on down the same old tired path.

Do you want to end drugs? I mean end it totally? No problem. Make them legal. People can then sue for a defective product or dangerous procedures during processing, and the cartels would be bankrupt in what? A couple years minimum?

Is that what the Founders intended? Is that what the Founders dreamed of? A nation of more rules than anyone can possibly learn? Our Tax Code makes the Bible Look like light reading by comparison.

Trump is not the savior you hoped for. He is just another person who wanted power that never should have existed.

 

[Beef_Supreme]

we cant maintain a civil society with people like you on the streets

Really? I am the cause of the lack of your idea of whatever society is supposed to be? The most serious crime I have ever been convicted of is riding a dirt bike across the street to where the transport truck was. A hair more serious than a speeding ticket. Nowhere near as serious as a DUI, which I have never gotten.

So I am not certain how I am responsible for the failure of whatever society you imagine.

The most serious crime I know of about you is equating cops to criminals

you are a very confused person even for a lib

Time and again people have pointed out problems in the LEO’s. Corruption. Rampant perjury. And criminal activity in the departments rivaling anything they are protecting us from. Supposedly protecting us from. Every time any reform is mentioned you and your ilk run around like your assholes are on fire screaming that it will lead to anarchy. You tell us the choice is simple. Anarchy or the cops. People are choosing anarchy. At least with Anarchy it is a fair fight.

For years I have been predicting this sort of thing. For years I advocated common sense reforms. For years I have warned of a huge pushback against the privilege of the police. And for years I have been told I hate cops by people just like you.

I warned that if the police did not lead the reform movement it would result in more dead cops. And I was told I was an idiot and a fool. Now we have more cops dying and I am not running around with my asshole on fire. So I must hate laws and order.

I don’t care. I am not about to run around pretending to be outraged when the clearly obvious result to clearly corrupt problems comes true.

Let’s say that someone builds a neighborhood over a landfill. I warn that this is a bad idea from stability of the ground issues and possible toxic environment in the rotting trash. I am told that I do not understand. A decade later foundations are cracking and plumbing is breaking from the settling ground. Cancer is up and people are outraged. Why would I get angry? I warned them this would happen.

YoI want to know who is most responsible for this? You and your fellow cops or anarchy idiots. The morons like you who were outraged that Obama told the military to never again give the cops bayonets or grenade launchers. You and your fellow support the cops no matter what or we will have anarchy fools. Anytime reform was suggested you all ran around hysterical about anarchy and dead cops. So the people got fed up. It always happens. Now you are pissed at the guy who warned that massive and extreme reforms would result eventually. Well guess what? It is coming.

More cops are going to die. Especially if Biden is elected. Because if he bans guns you and your cop loving friends will kill cops wholesale to defend your rights. And do not pretend that you won’t. You would stack the dead cops like cordwood in your yards and pronounce that they deserved it for breaking the Constitution.

There will be a lot more dead cops. And I still will not choose the corrupt status quo. I am not about to start running around like my asshole is on fire. This is what you wanted. Not me. Like a stock market crash. I saw it coming. So blame someone else. Start with the asshole in the mirror.

It seem like you are arguing against one extreme (the support the cops no matter what crowd) while arguing from the other extreme. Exactly what reforms do you feel need to take place?

I hesitate to agree with sociology professors who are almost as useless journalism teachers.

But I agree that society is so divided that it could end in a bloodbath of competing ideologies

All right. Now take a step back. Look at the two parties. Not just this election. But every election you can remember. If you are at least as old as I am you remember when they debated policies and idealism. A vote for Democrats generally speaking meant more pay for the civil servants. A vote for Republicans generally meant more defense spending. America was a pendulum swinging back and forth. Not much. Just a little bit here and there.

Democrats meant slightly higher taxes. Republicans meant slightly lower. Nothing that the average family would really notice. It generally meant a night at the movies for a family of four every month. Or no night at the movies for the family of four.

Now look at it. Deep down each side knows they are no better than the other. The policy questions are bullshit. Both parties do exactly the same thing. The arguments now are who do you want in charge of the corrupt system? If Democrats are in charge they will use the corrupt system to target you. If our side is in charge we will use the same corruption to target them. Let them get a taste of their own medicine. That will teach them.

Nobody and I mean nobody is ever going to end the corruption. Nobody is going to abolish the FISA courts no matter how many abuses are exposed. Nobody is going to shut down the NSA and FBI data mining systems. You could argue it is to protect the nation. And some might believe it a little. But most of us know even if we don’t admit it that the entire thing is wrong.

So why do we go along? We go along because we are afraid of being soft on Terrorists. Think about it. Every time some surveillance program is mentioned the Heads of those departments run out and scream that without this program they have been abusing daily we would be victims of terrorism and child predators. Nobody likes child predators and anyone who says the abused system should be shut down must be a pedophile.

So we pretend that the same FBI that has been corrupt since J. Edger Hoover was in charge is going to straighten up and fly right. We pretend that the rank and file are just like us and we would never do that. It is the bosses. It is the other political party. It is the appointees who screwed it up.

When the FBI Black Bag Jobs were exposed. The FBI went to Congress and testified that there would never be another Black Bag Job. They kept doing them. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So no more Black Bag Jobs.
When Carnivore was exposed. They promised it was shut down. No more Carnivore Email interceptions. Of course not. A totally updated and improved program was already working with a new name. Still doing the same things only with a new name.

That has been the pattern. And both parties enable it. We never stop the abuses. We just rename them

We are doomed. And we will not scream in outrage when it falls. We won’t even whimper. We will cheer that they are going to be dealt with once and for all. I just don’t know who the They will be. But I do know the Republic is dead. Like a victim twitching after death. Stray electrical signals sending random twitches to hands and feet. And we cheered all along this path.

it seems we have much, much more in common than I initially thought.

 

[Mac-7]

He is determined to fire the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, and the rest. A plan that I and history call a Loyalty Purge. Stalin was a big fan of them.

I call it a Deep State cabal purge

What he wants are directors who are impartial and not conspiring to overthrow him

But with only more career washington swamp rats available to replace them it will still be a crap shoot with the enemy holding loaded dice

 

[Mac-7]

Trump is not the savior you hoped for.

Nor is he the bogeyman you think he is

He’s a bulwark against leftist policies that I believe a majority of Americans do not want

He’s not some hippy-dippy green new deal wacko who thinks the earth is being destroyed by CO2

Nor is trump for open borders and the flood of unsupportable poor people that democrats embrace

There is more to like about trump but thats enough for now

 

[SavannahMann]

we cant maintain a civil society with people like you on the streets

Really? I am the cause of the lack of your idea of whatever society is supposed to be? The most serious crime I have ever been convicted of is riding a dirt bike across the street to where the transport truck was. A hair more serious than a speeding ticket. Nowhere near as serious as a DUI, which I have never gotten.

So I am not certain how I am responsible for the failure of whatever society you imagine.

The most serious crime I know of about you is equating cops to criminals

you are a very confused person even for a lib

Time and again people have pointed out problems in the LEO’s. Corruption. Rampant perjury. And criminal activity in the departments rivaling anything they are protecting us from. Supposedly protecting us from. Every time any reform is mentioned you and your ilk run around like your assholes are on fire screaming that it will lead to anarchy. You tell us the choice is simple. Anarchy or the cops. People are choosing anarchy. At least with Anarchy it is a fair fight.

For years I have been predicting this sort of thing. For years I advocated common sense reforms. For years I have warned of a huge pushback against the privilege of the police. And for years I have been told I hate cops by people just like you.

I warned that if the police did not lead the reform movement it would result in more dead cops. And I was told I was an idiot and a fool. Now we have more cops dying and I am not running around with my asshole on fire. So I must hate laws and order.

I don’t care. I am not about to run around pretending to be outraged when the clearly obvious result to clearly corrupt problems comes true.

Let’s say that someone builds a neighborhood over a landfill. I warn that this is a bad idea from stability of the ground issues and possible toxic environment in the rotting trash. I am told that I do not understand. A decade later foundations are cracking and plumbing is breaking from the settling ground. Cancer is up and people are outraged. Why would I get angry? I warned them this would happen.

YoI want to know who is most responsible for this? You and your fellow cops or anarchy idiots. The morons like you who were outraged that Obama told the military to never again give the cops bayonets or grenade launchers. You and your fellow support the cops no matter what or we will have anarchy fools. Anytime reform was suggested you all ran around hysterical about anarchy and dead cops. So the people got fed up. It always happens. Now you are pissed at the guy who warned that massive and extreme reforms would result eventually. Well guess what? It is coming.

More cops are going to die. Especially if Biden is elected. Because if he bans guns you and your cop loving friends will kill cops wholesale to defend your rights. And do not pretend that you won’t. You would stack the dead cops like cordwood in your yards and pronounce that they deserved it for breaking the Constitution.

There will be a lot more dead cops. And I still will not choose the corrupt status quo. I am not about to start running around like my asshole is on fire. This is what you wanted. Not me. Like a stock market crash. I saw it coming. So blame someone else. Start with the asshole in the mirror.

It seem like you are arguing against one extreme (the support the cops no matter what crowd) while arguing from the other extreme. Exactly what reforms do you feel need to take place?

I hesitate to agree with sociology professors who are almost as useless journalism teachers.

But I agree that society is so divided that it could end in a bloodbath of competing ideologies

All right. Now take a step back. Look at the two parties. Not just this election. But every election you can remember. If you are at least as old as I am you remember when they debated policies and idealism. A vote for Democrats generally speaking meant more pay for the civil servants. A vote for Republicans generally meant more defense spending. America was a pendulum swinging back and forth. Not much. Just a little bit here and there.

Democrats meant slightly higher taxes. Republicans meant slightly lower. Nothing that the average family would really notice. It generally meant a night at the movies for a family of four every month. Or no night at the movies for the family of four.

Now look at it. Deep down each side knows they are no better than the other. The policy questions are bullshit. Both parties do exactly the same thing. The arguments now are who do you want in charge of the corrupt system? If Democrats are in charge they will use the corrupt system to target you. If our side is in charge we will use the same corruption to target them. Let them get a taste of their own medicine. That will teach them.

Nobody and I mean nobody is ever going to end the corruption. Nobody is going to abolish the FISA courts no matter how many abuses are exposed. Nobody is going to shut down the NSA and FBI data mining systems. You could argue it is to protect the nation. And some might believe it a little. But most of us know even if we don’t admit it that the entire thing is wrong.

So why do we go along? We go along because we are afraid of being soft on Terrorists. Think about it. Every time some surveillance program is mentioned the Heads of those departments run out and scream that without this program they have been abusing daily we would be victims of terrorism and child predators. Nobody likes child predators and anyone who says the abused system should be shut down must be a pedophile.

So we pretend that the same FBI that has been corrupt since J. Edger Hoover was in charge is going to straighten up and fly right. We pretend that the rank and file are just like us and we would never do that. It is the bosses. It is the other political party. It is the appointees who screwed it up.

When the FBI Black Bag Jobs were exposed. The FBI went to Congress and testified that there would never be another Black Bag Job. They kept doing them. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So no more Black Bag Jobs.
When Carnivore was exposed. They promised it was shut down. No more Carnivore Email interceptions. Of course not. A totally updated and improved program was already working with a new name. Still doing the same things only with a new name.

That has been the pattern. And both parties enable it. We never stop the abuses. We just rename them

We are doomed. And we will not scream in outrage when it falls. We won’t even whimper. We will cheer that they are going to be dealt with once and for all. I just don’t know who the They will be. But I do know the Republic is dead. Like a victim twitching after death. Stray electrical signals sending random twitches to hands and feet. And we cheered all along this path.

it seems we have much, much more in common than I initially thought.

What Reforms do I think the Police need? I’ll tell you what I have been saying for years.

First, an end to Qualified Immunity. A couple years ago, I would have said that anything that was not strictly within policy should be fodder for lawsuits. Today, I would argue it all needs to go. The why is simple. We keep finding new excuses. Originally Qualified Immunity was intended to protect cops who were following policy. I can support that. A cop does what he is trained to do, in accordance with policy, then he shouldn’t be sued.

Over time it has mutated. A new definition was given to us by Courts. The new definition was simple. If someone was not sued successfully for that exact incident, it was covered by Qualified Immunity. So if nobody successfully sued, and won, in a courtroom because a cop strip searched a woman on the side of the road, then nobody can be sued for it.

Second. Training. A lot of training. It takes a year to turn a qualified and experienced soldier, someone with a couple years experience already, into a Green Beret. In the time we take to turn out a cop we barely let a Marine paint the globe and anchor on his Shirt. Then that new Marine heads off to specialty training, and even then is taken in hand by senior people who make sure that the individual is acting like a Marine.

Churchill said it took two years to train a soldier. And from experience I can say he was right. At least two years. But we turn out cops in a handful of months, and are surprised when we turn them loose and they screw up.

Pilots work for years to get the experience they need to drive the airliners. The LAPD at least has the right idea, for two years after the academy the cop is with a trainer. And training should never stop.

Now, onto the trainers, and the rest.

Lie Detector Tests. Before you wave your hands around and start screaming civil rights, let me explain. People with Top Secret Clearances who are entrusted with national secrets get put on the box from time to time. Routine Security Screenings. If they fail the test, they aren’t fired, or locked up in jail, or buried in a hole at the bottom of a secret prison. They just don’t get to work on Top Secret Material anymore.

Half a dozen questions. All the cop has to pass is half a dozen questions, say every six months.

In the last six months have you lied under oath? In the last six months have you seen anyone lie under oath and not reported it?

In the last six months have you planted any evidence? Have you seen anyone plant any evidence?

Have you used excessive force? Have you seen anyone use excessive force and not reported it?

Pass the test, thank you have a nice day. IF you fail you are not fired. Yes, I know that personal problems at home or whatever can screw up your test. Fine. Let’s give you some time to get things sorted out. Let’s give you some time to get those problems handled so you can pass the test. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect someone to be able to handle the problems they are dealing with over a few weeks, do you?

If you come back and still fail, you’re not going to jail, but while you’re failing the test, you are not headed out on the street wearing a badge and gun.

Again, we expect this of people working with secret information, and someone who has the power to arrest, and narrate the crimes of the accused is equally important isn’t it?

Now, I know that there are sociopaths who can pass the test even if they have done everything they are saying they did not. But we could eliminate say at least 98% of those bad cops. The rest will be gotten in time. Someone will see them and report the misconduct. The way the system is supposed to work. That someone will know they can’t pass the test if they don’t, because everyone is not going to be sociopathic.

Finally. Use of Force Investigations. Right now, investigations, such as they are, are designed to look for criminal conduct, or eliminate that possibility. If they can shoehorn the narrative into a he was or was not justified.

There is a lot more than can be learned. And it is important to learn those lessons instead of the wrong lessons we usually learn. I often say I’d like to see Aircraft Crash Investigations as the template. Because the investigators not only try and figure out what, and how, but why.

A flight known as the Queens Catastrophe. It was absolutely pilot error. But the investigators could not figure out why the pilot acted like that. So they dove into his training and history. They found out why. A bit of training he had gotten had taught him the wrong lesson, and directly contributed to the accident. They required all the other pilots who had gotten the same training scenario be retrained, to insure that nobody else learned the wrong lesson.

A real world example.



Ok, from the moment the suspect pulled the gun, I have no heartburn with the cops shooting him. I have no issue with that shooting at all. The police saw a weapon, and did not know it was a BB gun. They were already too close to seek cover and assess the situation more. No issue at all.

But what can we learn to prevent it if possible in the future? Avoiding the situation entirely would be safer for everyone, especially the police. Because if it had been a real gun, two cops might well be dead now. Perhaps we should look at encouraging the police to search the guy for weapons right away. I don’t know all the possibilities, but I know there are Always Alternatives that we can examine.

Now these reforms would make it better for the citizens and the police. It would be safer if every lesson we can learn was milked out of situations. The next generation could learn the lessons without the deaths and problems of the current gen.

Now it is important to realize the police will resist the changes. They always do. One they resisted was bullet proof vests. The cops complained they were hot and were afraid they would feel like Superman and not take precautions. The first cops to wear the vests were mocked. Now any cop who doesn’t wear one is chastised. The change saved lives. It increases the odds of survival.

 

[SavannahMann]

He is determined to fire the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, and the rest. A plan that I and history call a Loyalty Purge. Stalin was a big fan of them.

I call it a Deep State cabal purge

What he wants are directors who are impartial and not conspiring to overthrow him

But with only more career washington swamp rats available to replace them it will still be a crap shoot with the enemy holding loaded dice

You destroy the deep state not by swapping the head. You do it by dragging the dark secrets into the light.

Want to reform the FBI? And while you are at it end the abuses with an appointment? Hire the head of The Innocence Project to run the show. Want to end Civil Rights abuses? Hire the head of the ACLU to run Civil Rights Investigations in the DOJ.

Trump instead shut down those investigations. He wanted to show he supported the cops. The Constitution directs him to defend the rights of the citizens. Not make sure nobody is looking at the abuses.

Remember when Trump said we were pulling out of Syria? We are still there and still building up our forces? We just sent in additional armored equipment to counter Russian weapons.

US deploys additional troops and armoured vehicles to eastern Syria

The move follows a number of clashes with Russian forces now stationed along the Turkish border

www.theguardian.com

Now take a moment and consider what Conservative meant. In 1990 Scalia joined four others in the famous Texas v. Johnson case. That was the one that allowed flag burning. Conservatives believed that limiting Government was first and foremost the intent of the Constitution. Maximum Freedom for the citizens.

Conservative meant getting and keeping the Government off your back. Not using the government to encourage or enforce compliance with idealism.

 

[Mac-7]

He is determined to fire the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, and the rest. A plan that I and history call a Loyalty Purge. Stalin was a big fan of them.

I call it a Deep State cabal purge

What he wants are directors who are impartial and not conspiring to overthrow him

But with only more career washington swamp rats available to replace them it will still be a crap shoot with the enemy holding loaded dice

You destroy the deep state not by swapping the head. You do it by dragging the dark secrets into the light.

Want to reform the FBI? And while you are at it end the abuses with an appointment? Hire the head of The Innocence Project to run the show. Want to end Civil Rights abuses? Hire the head of the ACLU to run Civil Rights Investigations in the DOJ.

Trump instead shut down those investigations. He wanted to show he supported the cops. The Constitution directs him to defend the rights of the citizens. Not make sure nobody is looking at the abuses.

Remember when Trump said we were pulling out of Syria? We are still there and still building up our forces? We just sent in additional armored equipment to counter Russian weapons.

US deploys additional troops and armoured vehicles to eastern Syria

The move follows a number of clashes with Russian forces now stationed along the Turkish border

www.theguardian.com

Now take a moment and consider what Conservative meant. In 1990 Scalia joined four others in the famous Texas v. Johnson case. That was the one that allowed flag burning. Conservatives believed that limiting Government was first and foremost the intent of the Constitution. Maximum Freedom for the citizens.

Conservative meant getting and keeping the Government off your back. Not using the government to encourage or enforce compliance with idealism.

I dont accept your examples of the The Innocence Project or ACLU.

But I agree that the washington establishment needs new blood that is not loyal to the establishment

 

[Mac-7]

As for syria, trump is sending 6 Bradly‘s and 100 troops which is not a big escalation of a US commitment in a war that trump did not initiate

lets wait and see what happens next

 

[Correll]

Trump isn’t trying to reign in the abuses. He is trying to control them towards his enemies. He isn’t dismantling the systems designed to control us, he is trying to take control of those groups to direct them towards targets he designates. His Tweet a few days ago. He is determined to fire the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, and the rest. A plan that I and history call a Loyalty Purge. Stalin was a big fan of them.

If he finds those who are loyal, the only change will be that these systems will be directed at those Enemies that Trump identifies. The abuses continue. And can you honestly say that you won’t be the target?

We republicans don't have anything close to the level of group think or the abandonment of professional responsibilities and ethics in favor of partisan politics.


Your assumption that we do, I have seen no evidence of.

 

[SavannahMann]

I dont accept your examples of the The Innocence Project or ACLU.

But I agree that the washington establishment needs new blood that is not loyal to the establishment

Both the ACLU and the Innocence Project have become familiar with misconduct and the lies told by the LEO’s. If we want to stop the abuses we must start by putting someone in charge who has spent years righting the wrongs of the Agents.

The FBI has been lying for years. Take Lead Matching. When the bullet was too mangled for ballistic comparison the FBI decided that spectral analysis of the lead was the way to go. They would match the lead to other ammunition found at the suspects location.

Scientists asked for information on how the FBI was matching the lead. Because the scientists experimented and found the lead was pretty much the same. The FBI said that only their labs were able to conduct these tests. A miracle test that only the wizard Merlin can do. Got it.

This was not the 1970’s or earlier. This was the start of this century. Finally the FBI withdrew the test. Admitting that they could not confirm the assessment. But they kept it quiet. They didn’t tell the Defense Attorneys of those who the evidence had helped convict that the test was bullshit.

The FBI doesn’t need someone loyal to Trump. They need someone loyal to the truth. They need someone who will object to these kinds of bullshit lies and put a stop to them. We need to know. We the people need to know what we are funding and what the Public Servants are doing in our name.

The people you hire can’t be from in house. Not when there are widespread problems in that house. You need someone from outside.

History shows that those choices are the best ones. When we have someone inside running the show the result is always wasted money and misconduct.

 

[SavannahMann]

As for syria, trump is sending 6 Bradly‘s and 100 troops which is not a big escalation of a US commitment in a war that trump did not initiate

lets wait and see what happens next

Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing | September 18, 2020 | The White House

James S. Brady Press Briefing Room 3:09 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, everyone. So a lot of work has been going on with respect to the vac

www.whitehouse.gov

We are out of Syria. Except we kept the oil. That is what President Trump said.

Now think back. What is it called when you go into another country uninvited and take things that do not belong to you? What kind of foreign policy is that again?

 

[Mac-7]

The FBI doesn’t need someone loyal to Trump. They need someone loyal to the truth

Thats what I just said

trump does not need a pro trump FBI or CIA director

but the nation needs swamp rats who are non partisan, impartial, and apolitical

if we had that in 2016 the last four years would have been very different

 

[Mac-7]

We are out of Syria. Except we kept the oil. That is what President Trump said.

“We’re out of Syria, other than we kept the oil. I kept the oil. And we have troops guarding the oil. Other than that, we’re out of Syria. “

what does that mean exactly?

are we shipping the oil directly to America and giving the money to Exxon?

I seriously doubt that

my guess is that we are withholding the money from Assad

normally that revenue goes into a trust account that ultimately belongs to the syrian people

but thats just my guess

 

[westwall]

Police in N Carolina get 16 weeks of training.
In California, it's 27 weeks.

Neither seems long enough considering they carry weapons.

In the UK, Met Police spend 3 years to become fully trained.

It seems a daily occurrence in the US that so many incidents that make the national headlines involve Police acting in a dumb and dangerous way. In the present climate, a white copper single-handedly trying to arrest a black man in front of his mates and at night seems crazy.
Feel sorry for the cop, but surely he can't have been following procedure, by not asking for back up before an arrest.
You would think he would need a colleague as a witness and a minimum requirement.

It is still lost on me how communities controlled by Progs for fifty, sixty and even up to seventy years have not done anything to change what the Black community is railing against. Somehow during a presidential election year it blossoms into riots. That means the politicians that did nothing are frauds. White and Black. No society has enough resources to do what is being proposed also.

Cos they are not "controlled" by Progs, - they are 'represented'
You righties look at everything 'arse about face'.

No. They are absolutely controlled. They allow no contradictory thoughts, or actions. They do not represent their constituents, they RULE them.

 

[justoffal]

sooo if a person doesn't intermarry they are racist? wow

He’s a limey

pay no attention to his insane and uninformed comments

No doubt brain-dead from years of being pussified by his new muslim bitch masters over there.

Jo

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

Police in N Carolina get 16 weeks of training.
In California, it's 27 weeks.

Neither seems long enough considering they carry weapons.

In the UK, Met Police spend 3 years to become fully trained.

It seems a daily occurrence in the US that so many incidents that make the national headlines involve Police acting in a dumb and dangerous way. In the present climate, a white copper single-handedly trying to arrest a black man in front of his mates and at night seems crazy.
Feel sorry for the cop, but surely he can't have been following procedure, by not asking for back up before an arrest.
You would think he would need a colleague as a witness and a minimum requirement.

It is still lost on me how communities controlled by Progs for fifty, sixty and even up to seventy years have not done anything to change what the Black community is railing against. Somehow during a presidential election year it blossoms into riots. That means the politicians that did nothing are frauds. White and Black. No society has enough resources to do what is being proposed also.

Cos they are not "controlled" by Progs, - they are 'represented'
You righties look at everything 'arse about face'.

No. They are absolutely controlled. They allow no contradictory thoughts or actions. They do not represent their constituents, they RULE them.

Don't be ridiculous. The progs keep voting them back.

 

[westwall]

Police in N Carolina get 16 weeks of training.
In California, it's 27 weeks.

Neither seems long enough considering they carry weapons.

In the UK, Met Police spend 3 years to become fully trained.

It seems a daily occurrence in the US that so many incidents that make the national headlines involve Police acting in a dumb and dangerous way. In the present climate, a white copper single-handedly trying to arrest a black man in front of his mates and at night seems crazy.
Feel sorry for the cop, but surely he can't have been following procedure, by not asking for back up before an arrest.
You would think he would need a colleague as a witness and a minimum requirement.

It is still lost on me how communities controlled by Progs for fifty, sixty and even up to seventy years have not done anything to change what the Black community is railing against. Somehow during a presidential election year it blossoms into riots. That means the politicians that did nothing are frauds. White and Black. No society has enough resources to do what is being proposed also.

Cos they are not "controlled" by Progs, - they are 'represented'
You righties look at everything 'arse about face'.

No. They are absolutely controlled. They allow no contradictory thoughts or actions. They do not represent their constituents, they RULE them.

Don't be ridiculous. The progs keep voting them back.

Of course they do. They are dumbed down in shit schools so that they don't know how to think for themselves. The people aren't stupid, they are just ignorant, because the politicians MAKE them that way.