Zone1 One significant reason why many do not believe in religion, it is just too damn hard

[BreezeWood]

The real fairy tale is believing that all life, all intelligence, everything that is seen and unseen is one big accident, the result of dumb luck.

I could never have enough faith to be an atheist.

there in lies your error ... the heavens oversee their domain, material and spiritual to be holy as best they may ... is of its own accord secular and religious - there be atheist in heaven.

- the error of the desert religions through evolution they know will disappear with the last of their bibles.

 

[Meriweather]

The real fairy tale is believing that all life, all intelligence, everything that is seen and unseen is one big accident, the result of dumb luck.

I could never have enough faith to be an atheist.

All my life I've lived with atheists and people of faith--and a search for common ground. Beginning with my grandfather, moving on to my uncle, my husband, and my inlaws has been the assurance they would not want me to be any different than I am--a person of faith, a person seeking after God. I've been asked to give advice/input from the faith perspective--and that has been accepted and valued. None of this has ever moved any of them to have faith in God.

So...what I have been seeking is common ground. Recently I heard a homily that spoke about common ground. It was speaking of personal relationships, but afterwards I began thinking this could also be the common ground for atheists and people of faith. Two points of the homily were that we all want to be happy in the truth. The second point is that while we all want some truths about ourselves to remain hidden/private, we are more comfortable with the whole, entire truth of others being revealed.

Atheists and people of faith both want the truth about God and creation to be revealed. Atheists, for their own individual reasons do not want the truth about God to be revealed. People of faith may ignore the immensity of what science offers them. I teach a lot of science, so I know much about science. But science does not guide me through daily living, while faith does. Many atheists have the position of "even if"...even if...God exists, they don't want him meddling in their daily lives.

We all want to be happy in the truth

Atheists do not have to address God as a fairy tale. If an atheist does not want God meddling in his/her daily life, let that be one's prayer.

Jesus' words to Thomas weigh on me: Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe.

I wanted to seek and find to such an extent, I did see. Seeing is a great weight to bear, because I know I should be trying harder than I am. That is not God's expectation of me--it is the weight of the expectations--that by knowing--I place on myself.

 

[buttercup]

All my life I've lived with atheists and people of faith--and a search for common ground. Beginning with my grandfather, moving on to my uncle, my husband, and my inlaws has been the assurance they would not want me to be any different than I am--a person of faith, a person seeking after God. I've been asked to give advice/input from the faith perspective--and that has been accepted and valued. None of this has ever moved any of them to have faith in God.

So...what I have been seeking is common ground. Recently I heard a homily that spoke about common ground. It was speaking of personal relationships, but afterwards I began thinking this could also be the common ground for atheists and people of faith. Two points of the homily were that we all want to be happy in the truth. The second point is that while we all want some truths about ourselves to remain hidden/private, we are more comfortable with the whole, entire truth of others being revealed.

Atheists and people of faith both want the truth about God and creation to be revealed. Atheists, for their own individual reasons do not want the truth about God to be revealed. People of faith may ignore the immensity of what science offers them. I teach a lot of science, so I know much about science. But science does not guide me through daily living, while faith does. Many atheists have the position of "even if"...even if...God exists, they don't want him meddling in their daily lives.

We all want to be happy in the truth

Atheists do not have to address God as a fairy tale. If an atheist does not want God meddling in his/her daily life, let that be one's prayer.

Jesus' words to Thomas weigh on me: Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe.

I wanted to seek and find to such an extent, I did see. Seeing is a great weight to bear, because I know I should be trying harder than I am. That is not God's expectation of me--it is the weight of the expectations--that by knowing--I place on myself.

This might be controversial to some...but I think that anyone (including atheists, agnostics, etc) who genuinely values truth and wants the truth will eventually find it and come to God...since God is the source of truth and truth itself. Like Jesus said, "Seek and you will find."

As for what you said, I think it's great that you try to find common ground. As much as I like to debate, I don't think that one can debate someone into faith. Apologetics is good for addressing misconceptions or breaking down certain barriers that nonbelievers have. But ultimately it takes more than that for someone to come to faith in God.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't question what percent you post about religion. When you do post about religion, what percent is respectful and positive?

Zero.

There's nothing positive about religion. Religion has never done anything good in the whole of human history, not once, not even by accident.

 

[ding]

Zero.

There's nothing positive about religion. Religion has never done anything good in the whole of human history, not once, not even by accident.

Darwin would disagree.

 

[BreezeWood]

Darwin would disagree.

- and your example where religion throughout history has not been at the forefront of persecution and victimization of the innocent is what exactly.

 

[Meriweather]

Zero.

There's nothing positive about religion. Religion has never done anything good in the whole of human history, not once, not even by accident.

You know that is not the consensus of professionals, scholars, and most people. This means your personal opinion about religion was formed from your personal life. What drives hate in personal life? While I loathe AI, I didn't know another quick way to research personal hate towards something. (And, frankly, nor did I want to take the time.)

AI noted that hate is a learned, complex, and often a defensive reaction driving by fear and insecurity; that hate is the mechanism one uses to manage internal pain, such as low self-esteem, trauma, and by projecting one's negative feelings onto others.

How to overcome hate is more within my line of study and religious faith. Forgiveness. Do you, by chance, have a long list of people you cannot forgive?

 

[JoeB131]

You know that is not the consensus of professionals, scholars, and most people. This means your personal opinion about religion was formed from your personal life. What drives hate in personal life? While I loathe AI, I didn't know another quick way to research personal hate towards something. (And, frankly, nor did I want to take the time.)

AI noted that hate is a learned, complex, and often a defensive reaction driving by fear and insecurity; that hate is the mechanism one uses to manage internal pain, such as low self-esteem, trauma, and by projecting one's negative feelings onto others.

How to overcome hate is more within my line of study and religious faith. Forgiveness. Do you, by chance, have a long list of people you cannot forgive?

I don't feel like forgiving your church for making my childhood a miserable experience.

And there's no reason why I should.

Now, yes, I guess I should "count my blessings" that I wasn't molested by a priest, killed in a crusade, tortured as a heretic, or any of the other nasty stuff you God-botherers do in the name of Jay-a-zus.

But the human race would be so much better off if we let Jesus go the way of Zeus and Odin.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't feel like forgiving your church for making my childhood a miserable experience.

And there's no reason why I should.

Now, yes, I guess I should "count my blessings" that I wasn't molested by a priest, killed in a crusade, tortured as a heretic, or any of the other nasty stuff you God-botherers do in the name of Jay-a-zus.

But the human race would be so much better off if we let Jesus go the way of Zeus and Odin.

I sincerely doubt your life would have been any better but for Jesus and the Catholic faith. I've listened to your childhood story several times and what comes across is the misery of a little boy that no one could heal, and that he would allow no one to heal. He acted out--he felt he was owed that. And as he was miserable, it was right everyone else should be miserable as well. He would see to that. People would pay for his misery.

I deeply understand that misery, because I went through it as an adult when during the holiday season I lost three family members, including my dad--and my best friend. I remember telling God, "I cannot be comforted. Please don't try. I need time apart." The grief...I don't need to tell you about that. It's a deep pit, and I didn't even begin to emerge for six months. I understood that year of mourning practiced in older times. This past year, right before the school year began, a young man lost his father. He was a mess, and he was given all the leeway he needed, including walking out of class without asking permission. I was with that class nearly four months, and even with encouragement, he couldn't sustain a passing grade. He is doing better now.

The point is, no one could have helped you over that deep of grief. You grew to hate, and that hate is with you to this day. You won't let it go. Maybe it's about time to be free of it? Keep in mind hate is not the opposite of love--that's indifference. For your own health, peace, and well-being perhaps transfer into indifference. Even better than indifference is forgiveness, but that may be kept for a later time, with one exception. Start with your mom. Forgive her for dying when you needed her, wanted her, loved her. And she, you. She's your St. Monica.

 

[JoeB131]

I sincerely doubt your life would have been any better but for Jesus and the Catholic faith. I've listened to your childhood story several times and what comes across is the misery of a little boy that no one could heal, and that he would allow no one to heal. He acted out--he felt he was owed that. And as he was miserable, it was right everyone else should be miserable as well. He would see to that. People would pay for his misery.

yes, being constantly abused by pyschopathic nuns would make anyone miserable.

The sad thing is, every last one of them was a lesbian who probably would have been much happier if she had embraced her sexuality rather than trying to pray away the gay and making small children miserable.

 

[rightwinger]

yes, being constantly abused by pyschopathic nuns would make anyone miserable.

The sad thing is, every last one of them was a lesbian who probably would have been much happier if she had embraced her sexuality rather than trying to pray away the gay and making small children miserable.

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 1256044

Funny thing about that. A few years back, I was over visiting my sister and her husband, all of us products of the Catholic School system.

My nieces also went to Catholic School, but they didn't have nuns.

So we were all watching the Blues Brothers (which is a great movie!) and we get to that scene, and the adults are all laughing hysterically at it.

My nieces were mortified!

 

[Meriweather]

yes, being constantly abused by pyschopathic nuns would make anyone miserable.

The sad thing is, every last one of them was a lesbian who probably would have been much happier if she had embraced her sexuality rather than trying to pray away the gay and making small children miserable.

So....even to this day you have a deep hatred and resentment towards frustrated lesbian women. When did you learn your teachers were lesbians? Did they tell you, did you learn this from someone else, or did you diagnose them yourself?

 

[rightwinger]

Funny thing about that. A few years back, I was over visiting my sister and her husband, all of us products of the Catholic School system.

My nieces also went to Catholic School, but they didn't have nuns.

So we were all watching the Blues Brothers (which is a great movie!) and we get to that scene, and the adults are all laughing hysterically at it.

My nieces were mortified!

That scene would not be funny if there was not some truth to it.

 

[JanetTheGreat]

 

[Meriweather]

Christopher Hitchens (and others) needed to do a better study of the story of Abraham and Isaac. Start with Isaac had grown to adulthood. Next, what was the sacrifice God provided? Perhaps the story comes across better in the original Hebrew rather than the King James English.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

My post made you feel bad about yourself? Why? The intent of the post was to remind an atheist that to Christians, living one's faith, it is not a fairy tale--it is reality. Not only is it reality, it takes effort and commitment. It means a lot to us and does not deserve to be dismissed as a fairy tale.

Girlyman Jesus Was a Truth-Fairy

Quit lying. You know perfectly well that I meant that you want to make us Realists feel inferior, lazy, and lost. You didn't get what you wanted from me, and like a spoiled brat, you pretend that you did.

There is such a right as freedom not to be bothered. You violate that with your self-righteous preaching, so expect us to fight back, especially when you are seducing confused people desperate for simple answers that cover everything.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

All my life I've lived with atheists and people of faith--and a search for common ground. Beginning with my grandfather, moving on to my uncle, my husband, and my inlaws has been the assurance they would not want me to be any different than I am--a person of faith, a person seeking after God. I've been asked to give advice/input from the faith perspective--and that has been accepted and valued. None of this has ever moved any of them to have faith in God.

So...what I have been seeking is common ground. Recently I heard a homily that spoke about common ground. It was speaking of personal relationships, but afterwards I began thinking this could also be the common ground for atheists and people of faith. Two points of the homily were that we all want to be happy in the truth. The second point is that while we all want some truths about ourselves to remain hidden/private, we are more comfortable with the whole, entire truth of others being revealed.

Atheists and people of faith both want the truth about God and creation to be revealed. Atheists, for their own individual reasons do not want the truth about God to be revealed. People of faith may ignore the immensity of what science offers them. I teach a lot of science, so I know much about science. But science does not guide me through daily living, while faith does. Many atheists have the position of "even if"...even if...God exists, they don't want him meddling in their daily lives.

We all want to be happy in the truth

Atheists do not have to address God as a fairy tale. If an atheist does not want God meddling in his/her daily life, let that be one's prayer.

Jesus' words to Thomas weigh on me: Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe.

I wanted to seek and find to such an extent, I did see. Seeing is a great weight to bear, because I know I should be trying harder than I am. That is not God's expectation of me--it is the weight of the expectations--that by knowing--I place on myself.

Cross off Any Crosses to Bear

Religions make believers too hard on themselves, which causes a breakdown followed by a depressing guilt at failure to match up to a sadistic test.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You know that is not the consensus of professionals, scholars, and most people. This means your personal opinion about religion was formed from your personal life. What drives hate in personal life? While I loathe AI, I didn't know another quick way to research personal hate towards something. (And, frankly, nor did I want to take the time.)

AI noted that hate is a learned, complex, and often a defensive reaction driving by fear and insecurity; that hate is the mechanism one uses to manage internal pain, such as low self-esteem, trauma, and by projecting one's negative feelings onto others.

How to overcome hate is more within my line of study and religious faith. Forgiveness. Do you, by chance, have a long list of people you cannot forgive?

Hate Is Part of the Survival Instinct. Tolerant Pushovers Have a Death Wish.

 

[Meriweather]

There is such a right as freedom not to be bothered.

What I have noted is that while taking time to react negatively to my posts, you seldom respond to what I post. This time you responded not by discussing the Christian pathway of affliction>endurance>character>hope=relationship of trust in God but by making it about you and telling me what I "really" meant. Sorry, but I am more interested in my own journey than in yours.

So....While this, too, will probably upset you, try and understand that just as I did not mean any of my past posts to upset you, I don't mean this to, either. You do have the freedom not to be bothered when posting/reading this forum. It's called ignore. Simply put me on ignore--problem solved and you have exercised your right not to be bothered since it appears my posts are upsetting to you. My apologies. Cheers, and may your future time here be happier and more peaceful.