One Of The 'Big' Questions On Immigration Debate

[Annie]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/04/immigrants_must_choose.html

April 14, 2006
Immigrants Must Choose
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- Many of the hundreds of thousands of Hispanic demonstrators who poured out into the streets on April 10 may not know much English, but they've learned the language of American politics: Flags. Tons of flags. And make them American.

That last detail was lost on the first wave of protesters two weeks earlier whose highly televised demonstrations were distinguished by the ubiquity of Mexican flags. Poor salesmanship. If you are appealing to Americans to give you the rights and privileges of citizenship, it is not a very good idea to hail Mexico, and an even worse idea to hold up signs such as ``This is our continent, not yours!" and ``Honkies are illegal aliens too.''

But by April 10, the demonstrators were as American as apple pie. All stars-and-stripes and white T-shirts, a nice additional touch, painting the television screen with the color of peace and brotherhood. As one demonstrator explained, ``I think we have been somewhat educated.''

And so they have. They are now reading from the original civil rights textbook written by Martin Luther King, whose genius was to ensure that his people's struggle was always expressed in quintessentially American terms. There was nothing cynical or contrived about it. Of course it was good politics, but King was passionate in his belief in America and in the belief that the struggle for black equality was a fulfillment of America's true creed. Which is why King spoke naturally, if pointedly, in classic American cadences, invoking the sacred language of Lincoln, the Declaration and Exodus.

But it is not enough to speak in the right cadences. You need to know how to articulate and frame your goals. Americans instinctively know the difference between these two civil rights crusades. Blacks were owed. For centuries they had been the victims of a historic national crime. The principal crime involved in the immigrant crusade is the violation of immigration laws by the illegals themselves.

To be sure, that is not a high crime. But it does not behoove one who has stealthily stolen into another's house to then make demands about rights -- or to march under the banner of ``The National Day of Action for Immigrant Justice.''

Justice? On what grounds do those who come into a country illegally claim rights? They seek good will and understanding. And Americans might give it -- but on request, not on demand.

Martin Luther King had a case for justice that was utterly incontrovertible, yet he always appealed to the better angels of America's nature. It is all the more important for illegals, whose claims rest not on justice but on compassion, to appeal to American generosity, openness and idealism.

There is much generosity in America to be tapped. But that will require two things. First, a change of tone. And second, a clarification of goals.

If you find a stranger living in your basement, you would be far more inclined to let him stay if he assured you that his ultimate intent is just to improve his own life and not to prepare the way for his various cousins waiting on the other side of your fence.

And that's the critical issue that the demonstrators and their supporters ignore. Is the amnesty they are demanding/requesting the beginning or the end? Is it a precedent or a one-time -- last time -- exception? Are they seeking open-ended immigration or do they agree that they should be the last wave of illegals?

We know they support the spirit of the failed Senate bill which, when all the phony length-of-stay distinctions are stripped away, is about legalization and amnesty. And we know they oppose the House bill because it declares illegals to be felons. But House Republicans recognize that they made a huge political error with that language and are pledged to remove it. Will the demonstrators support the rest of the House bill, which would radically restrain new illegal immigration by means of a physical barrier and other measures?

If the answer to that is yes, then we have the makings of a national consensus to combine the House and Senate bills -- a fence plus amnesty -- into a comprehensive new policy. But we need an answer.

The Hispanic civil rights movement is young and lacking unified leadership. That would be an excuse for temporary incoherence about goals if the massive demonstrations did not insist on bringing the issue to a head now. The politically mobilized millions need to tell America where they stand: Are they ready to be welcomed into the American family as the last illegals -- or only as the first of many millions more?

 

[William Joyce]

Sure, but it would be a grave mistake to think that any of the racial movements in America have been about "American values" or universal justice. Instead, they're all about the fortunes of a particular race or ethnic group, period. "Civl rights" just means more stuff for blacks. "Immigrant rights" just means more stuff for Hispanics. "Family values" just means whites don't like Jewish Hollywood.

So to say that Hispanics don't have the same moral claim that blacks once did, while true, ignores the common demominator of all this business: forcing whites aside by making them feel guilty. This tactic requires no logic whatsoever. Whites will go along if the cards are played right, and trust me --- you don't need that good of a hand.

I think the real question is whether white America has the resolve to survive.

 

[dilloduck]

Sure, but it would be a grave mistake to think that any of the racial movements in America have been about "American values" or universal justice. Instead, they're all about the fortunes of a particular race or ethnic group, period. "Civl rights" just means more stuff for blacks. "Immigrant rights" just means more stuff for Hispanics. "Family values" just means whites don't like Jewish Hollywood.

So to say that Hispanics don't have the same moral claim that blacks once did, while true, ignores the common demominator of all this business: forcing whites aside by making them feel guilty. This tactic requires no logic whatsoever. Whites will go along if the cards are played right, and trust me --- you don't need that good of a hand.

I think the real question is whether white America has the resolve to survive.

It's gonna have to come from our youth or it ain't coming at all.

 

[007]

Sure, but it would be a grave mistake to think that any of the racial movements in America have been about "American values" or universal justice. Instead, they're all about the fortunes of a particular race or ethnic group, period. "Civl rights" just means more stuff for blacks. "Immigrant rights" just means more stuff for Hispanics. "Family values" just means whites don't like Jewish Hollywood.

So to say that Hispanics don't have the same moral claim that blacks once did, while true, ignores the common demominator of all this business: forcing whites aside by making them feel guilty. This tactic requires no logic whatsoever. Whites will go along if the cards are played right, and trust me --- you don't need that good of a hand.

I think the real question is whether white America has the resolve to survive.

I think white America has the will to survive, but they won't unify to do it. There doesn't seem to be any cohesion among white people. Why, I don't know. But I do know, a house divided will fall.

 

[007]

And we know they oppose the House bill because it declares illegals to be felons. But House Republicans recognize that they made a huge political error with that language and are pledged to remove it.

I have no idea what the hell they mean by that. "Huge political error"? Not by me it's not. And not by 95% of the rest of the country.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I usually enjoy Charles Krauthammer's articles, but I don't think he put much effort into writing this one.

Of course, the illegals are going to use every "trick" in the book to get what they want; and if that means cleaning up their "public act" to make it more acceptable to Americans, so be it. Don't think that ploy was wasted on too many people.

And that's the critical issue that the demonstrators and their supporters ignore. Is the amnesty they are demanding/requesting the beginning or the end? Is it a precedent or a one-time -- last time -- exception? Are they seeking open-ended immigration or do they agree that they should be the last wave of illegals?

Krauthammer was around when the famous Reagan amnesty was granted. How can he ask such a question in light of what has transpired with illegal immigration since that time? Can any thinking person really believe that illegal immigration is going to end with the building of a wall on our southern border? It will be impeded but not stopped. It's time to enforce the laws on the books and quit looking the other way.

 

[007]

Can any thinking person really believe that illegal immigration is going to end with the building of a wall on our southern border? It will be impeded but not stopped. It's time to enforce the laws on the books and quit looking the other way.

I agree. Start right now. Every time an illegal is encountered, detain them and deport them with the means that are available right now. That would make a dent.

 

[dilloduck]

I agree. Start right now. Every time an illegal is encountered, detain them and deport them with the means that are available right now. That would make a dent.

Too late---unless we are ready for violence.

 

[nibor]

Though I have many disagreements with the man,I have to agree with what Bill O'Reilly's attitude toward this subject is,We can't round them up,give them 90 days to register,for sign up and classification or they become felons!


Then I think because they screwed up SO BAD in every phase of our immigration policies as to ACTUALLY SUBVERT OUR NATION,they should be made to work as much overtime WITHOUT PAY as it takes to backround check ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rico]

Too late---unless we are ready for violence.

I don't understand. Enforcing our laws will lead to violence? Well then those people that react with violence would be criminals then wouldn't they? Oh I'm sorry we're not to use such terms as criminal to describe those that are here against the immigration laws of the United States. If we decriminalize illegal immigration it encourages more to do the same. That action which you legitimize and accept will multiply those willing to take such action and break the law in the future. Where then do we stop?

 

[dilloduck]

I don't understand. Enforcing our laws will lead to violence? Well then those people that react with violence would be criminals then wouldn't they? Oh I'm sorry we're not to use such terms as criminal to describe those that are here against the immigration laws of the United States. If we decriminalize illegal immigration it encourages more to do the same. That action which you legitimize and accept will multiply those willing to take such action and break the law in the future. Where then do we stop?

I'm not advocating ignoring our laws. I'm stating that if we do not give into the demands of the illegals, there will be violence. It's blackmail, pure and simple.

 

[007]

I'm not advocating ignoring our laws. I'm stating that if we do not give into the demands of the illegals, there will be violence. It's blackmail, pure and simple.

Violence would only solidify the prevailing attitude towards the illegals now dillo. That would seal their fate.

Bring it...

 

[nibor]

There are many major problems associated with "BRING IT", PR!



One major one is WHOM PROFITS,while we're "bringing it",the same slime who created it? :duh3:


This country HAS BEEN INTENTIONALLY DIVIDED ...........DRAWN AND QUARTERED.........AND TO WHOM'S BENEFIT?????? :duh3:

 

[007]

There are many major problems associated with "BRING IT", PR!



One major one is WHOM PROFITS,while we're "bringing it",the same slime who created it? :duh3:


This country HAS BEEN INTENTIONALLY DIVIDED ...........DRAWN AND QUARTERED.........AND TO WHOM'S BENEFIT?????? :duh3:

The politicians are acting with COMPLETE DISREGARD of public opinion. So I can only assume that the people with the deep pockets to make big political contributions would profit the most from all the illegal aliens, and that would be big business.

It's the American tax payer that's the REAL loser in this situation. If you are in that same catagory with me, then you and I would be much better off if our government would deport every stinking illegal encountered.

 

[nibor]

["It's the American tax payer that's the REAL loser in this situation. If you are in that same catagory with me, then you and I would be much better off if our government would deport every stinking illegal encountered."]


There ARE many more besides the people that actually pay taxes that are losing and will lose in all of this! :duh3:


And whether or NOT we end up better off,is still in the plan we are NOT being shown or allowed privy to!


I actually believe that they didn't just come here of their own volition but were actually contracted for behind our backs!


Hence the reason they feel they have the rights to march in our faces carrying their flag! :gross2:

 

[dilloduck]

Violence would only solidify the prevailing attitude towards the illegals now dillo. That would seal their fate.

Bring it...

Which is why I firmly believe that nothing will be done regarding immigration--it's to the politicians' benefit to do nothing. Some token crap might get passed but nothing that solves the problem.

 

[dilloduck]

Which is why I firmly believe that nothing will be done regarding immigration--it's to the politicians' benefit to do nothing. Some token crap might get passed but nothing that solves the problem.

BTW---Since the organizers realized that draggin around Mexican flags when they "protest" was tacky, don't they think that May Day might be a little too communist of a day to March on?

 

[William Joyce]

I think white America has the will to survive, but they won't unify to do it. There doesn't seem to be any cohesion among white people. Why, I don't know. But I do know, a house divided will fall.

Biggest problem white Americans face. If you ask 9 of 10 white Americans, they'll say they think open borders is crap. But there are no leaders, no organizations (that are even marginally respectable) and no parties addressing this. Usually we put our faith in the GOP, but the GOP is AWOL these days.

 

[Dr Grump]

Biggest problem white Americans face.

Being a minority within a couple of generations I'd imagine...

 

[007]

Biggest problem white Americans face. If you ask 9 of 10 white Americans, they'll say they think open borders is crap. But there are no leaders, no organizations (that are even marginally respectable) and no parties addressing this. Usually we put our faith in the GOP, but the GOP is AWOL these days.

I agree. With the GOP being President Bush, and him leading the effort to give our country away, I have no faith in anyone currently in government at this point.

I've been on the Stormfront message board, and if they'd just tone down their rhetoric, I think they could emerge as legit.