OK Tea Party....Time to belly up to the bar

[Intense]

Talk to meg whitman, R from califonia, who hired a housekeeper with an invalid SS# and did nothing when she was notified that it was invalid.
I just think it's ridiculous that you would try to pretend it doesn't happen. LOL

BTW nothing that you said changes the FACT that you lied and tried to put words into my mouth.

I didn't lie you fucking retard. I didn't know this was a big problem or a problem at all. It's just the most absurd thing i can imagine

You did LIE when you claimed

you've convinced yourselves that they have valid, not stolen, Social Security numbers so they can pay in and not be paid in cash.?

when the FACT is that I NEVER made any such claim that they had valid SS#s.


Fact remains that it does happen and they do pay in and recieve no benefits.

No contradiction there huh.

 

[Sallow]

You are making excuses. You have no idea of what you are talking about.

There isn't an excuse in the post. You wanted to change the direction of the thread. And I've pretty much gone and explained what I know from personal experience. It might be you that doesn't know what they are talking about..

Now..answer the question. You know these people are "illegal", how?

I do know many Illegal's from neighbors to people on the street, through Church, through Pantry, through customers, through people I know that work in and around the hospital and social services. From my perspective, is is as plain as night and day. So is your denial of reality Shallow. We are overwhelmed here. You are misinformed.

And they told they were illegal?

And you know them through Church, how? They told you? You were doing charity work? What?

You work for the hospital? You check them in?

What customers? They work for the department of immigration?

I am asking you how you know?

I work with people from other countries that come here on work visas. They aren't illegal. How do I know? I asked them.

Come up with specifics. And let me know if they are going to emergency rooms.

Incensed.

 

[drsmith1072]

You are making excuses. You have no idea of what you are talking about.

There isn't an excuse in the post. You wanted to change the direction of the thread. And I've pretty much gone and explained what I know from personal experience. It might be you that doesn't know what they are talking about..

Now..answer the question. You know these people are "illegal", how?

I do know many Illegal's from neighbors to people on the street, through Church, through Pantry, through customers, through people I know that work in and around the hospital and social services. From my perspective, is is as plain as night and day. So is your denial of reality Shallow. We are overwhelmed here. You are misinformed.

So when did you start believing that your "perception" is above reproach and is considered to be reality??
Disagreeing with your baseless and unproven perceptions is not denial of reality.
Thanks for showing how literally insane you truly are. If YOU believe it, then it has to be true. LOL

 

[Sallow]

This thread is going exactly where I thought it would. Namely, showing that the tea party is unwilling to make the tough cuts in spending or tax increased that are needed to get to a balanced budget.

Cutting "waste' is not an answer. Every politician for 200 years has promised that.
Earmarks are small potatoes and will have minimal impact. Besides, everyone is willing to cut other peoples earmarks but not offer up their own
If we are serious about cutting debt we need to make the hard cuts. We need to redefine the misssion of the Armed Forces, end two wars entirely, raise the retirement age, cut welfare at both the individual and corporate levels.....

When will the Tea Party stand up and offer up some real spending savings?

Well they start with vague generalities then go for the illegal immigrant thing..because it's rote and easy.

But seriously..see if any president can address this problem? Regan tried, Bush tried..and they couldn't. Why? Lots of businesses love having powerless cheap labor. And on the whole it's a gain to government coffers.

But yeah..there are no serious answers from the Tea Party..just lots of rage and anger.

 

[Intense]

There isn't an excuse in the post. You wanted to change the direction of the thread. And I've pretty much gone and explained what I know from personal experience. It might be you that doesn't know what they are talking about..

Now..answer the question. You know these people are "illegal", how?

I do know many Illegal's from neighbors to people on the street, through Church, through Pantry, through customers, through people I know that work in and around the hospital and social services. From my perspective, is is as plain as night and day. So is your denial of reality Shallow. We are overwhelmed here. You are misinformed.

And they told they were illegal?

And you know them through Church, how? They told you? You were doing charity work? What?

You work for the hospital? You check them in?

What customers? They work for the department of immigration?

I am asking you how you know?

I work with people from other countries that come here on work visas. They aren't illegal. How do I know? I asked them.

Come up with specifics. And let me know if they are going to emergency rooms.

Incensed.

I ask them and I know. It's not all that complicated Sallow. The rules here are very easily bent. My kids grew up here, my best friend is a Priest, my wife runs a pantry, Also through her job, which I will not mention, we deal with stuff all the time. You act like it's impossible to know. How many Hospitals around the Country are in trouble because of this issue. St. John's Hospital Just closed this year, that's two locations in Queens. The formula for health care is too convoluted. It is at crisis level and will bankrupt us.

 

[drsmith1072]

Reason is beyond you Smith. The only waste of time is your flawed argument. Government has a primary role, and government has a role that it usurped. You don't know the difference between the two, you do not understand the limit of power or jurisdiction, that is why the cost, which is such a small part of the tyranny, is so great.

Cost of service has a direct relationship to overhead, unpaid services have a direct relationship to overhead. Federal Mandate has a direct relation to overhead. Illegal;s getting services they don't pay for, has a direct relation to overhead. I guess that makes you a lier and a thief, with a piss poor attitude. I'm not your puppet on a string, here to answer your questions. Answer your own questions.

If "reason" is beyond anyone here it is YOU. You constantly try to change the subject to avoid debates that you refuse to admit that you can't win.
You refuse to provide specifics when asked because you know you have none but refuse to admit that you are WRONG and have nothing REAL to add. Now you come at me with the BS offtopic spin about your perception of how the government has "usurped" a role that is not it's own to have even as you claim I don't see what you claim is real but can't substantiate when asked. LOL

Furthermore, how is asking you questions about your baseless, still unsubstantiated and still contradictory claims consider lying or thievery?? Oh wait that is just your usual attack response when you have nothing REAL to add. Got it. Not once did i claim that those things did not contribute to the cost however, in the end the industry itself decides what to charge based on their own profit margins.

Do you literally want me to answer my questions about your opinions?? Seems like you are asking me to put words in your mouth. LOL

BTW how can you, on one hand, complain about lawsuits which would have to be limited by "Government interference" even as you try to complain about "Government interference" on the other? Why so contradictory?

I'm not changing the subject, just expanding it. The subject matter is not limited to what you decree. Nor is reality limited to what little you are able to comprehend. The Court has a role in Government. So does Litigation, within reason. The confusing winning an argument in court with the purchase of a winning lottery ticket is an abuse. That abuse contributes to the cost of Service, the cost of insurance, the denial of coverage, the lack of Doctors in specialized fields. The Cost has little to do with the free market, as you well know there is little free market practice in Insurance and Health Care. Nice try though. There is little more regulated. Not all industries get to determine market cost, regardless of the expense to provide that good or service. That too is beyond you. I'm not asking you to put words in my mouth Smith, I'm asking you specifically not to. What you put in your mouth is your business. I don't even want to know. Your reasoning is flawed, as always. It is just plain corrupt.

If you are asked what color the red and blue shirts are and you go off into a rant about the rainbow you are trying to change the subject not expanding it. They are not the same topic merely becuase they both deal with colors.

BTW your spiel about litigation still doesn't explain your contradiction of promoting "Government interference" where litigation is concerned even as you try to complain about "Government interference" in the healthcare industry. Why so contradictory?

So are you actually trying to argue that the heath industry doesn't increase the cost of procedures based on their profit margins and has no control?? If that is the case, do you care to PROVE that assertion instead of merely making the claim??

Furthermore, I have put no words into your mouth but instead of have asked you SPECIFIC questions about your own statements that you refuse to answer. For instance I asked you about your contradiction and you provide a response that mentions litigation and limiting it "within reason" which has to be done through "Government interference." However, you failed to address how that contradicts with your complaint about "Government interference" within that same post. Why is that?

 

[Intense]

This thread is going exactly where I thought it would. Namely, showing that the tea party is unwilling to make the tough cuts in spending or tax increased that are needed to get to a balanced budget.

Cutting "waste' is not an answer. Every politician for 200 years has promised that.
Earmarks are small potatoes and will have minimal impact. Besides, everyone is willing to cut other peoples earmarks but not offer up their own
If we are serious about cutting debt we need to make the hard cuts. We need to redefine the misssion of the Armed Forces, end two wars entirely, raise the retirement age, cut welfare at both the individual and corporate levels.....

When will the Tea Party stand up and offer up some real spending savings?

Well they start with vague generalities then go for the illegal immigrant thing..because it's rote and easy.

But seriously..see if any president can address this problem? Regan tried, Bush tried..and they couldn't. Why? Lots of businesses love having powerless cheap labor. And on the whole it's a gain to government coffers.

But yeah..there are no serious answers from the Tea Party..just lots of rage and anger.

Come now shallow. You are just bitter because of all the lost ground from yesterday's election. Take solace in the few key victories you had.

Maybe it's time for the Individual States to play a more significant role. Let's give Federalism a chance, it's been too long a while since it's been tried. Centralized one size fits all government cheats everybody. It's excessive and wasteful.

 

[Intense]

If "reason" is beyond anyone here it is YOU. You constantly try to change the subject to avoid debates that you refuse to admit that you can't win.
You refuse to provide specifics when asked because you know you have none but refuse to admit that you are WRONG and have nothing REAL to add. Now you come at me with the BS offtopic spin about your perception of how the government has "usurped" a role that is not it's own to have even as you claim I don't see what you claim is real but can't substantiate when asked. LOL

Furthermore, how is asking you questions about your baseless, still unsubstantiated and still contradictory claims consider lying or thievery?? Oh wait that is just your usual attack response when you have nothing REAL to add. Got it. Not once did i claim that those things did not contribute to the cost however, in the end the industry itself decides what to charge based on their own profit margins.

Do you literally want me to answer my questions about your opinions?? Seems like you are asking me to put words in your mouth. LOL

BTW how can you, on one hand, complain about lawsuits which would have to be limited by "Government interference" even as you try to complain about "Government interference" on the other? Why so contradictory?

I'm not changing the subject, just expanding it. The subject matter is not limited to what you decree. Nor is reality limited to what little you are able to comprehend. The Court has a role in Government. So does Litigation, within reason. The confusing winning an argument in court with the purchase of a winning lottery ticket is an abuse. That abuse contributes to the cost of Service, the cost of insurance, the denial of coverage, the lack of Doctors in specialized fields. The Cost has little to do with the free market, as you well know there is little free market practice in Insurance and Health Care. Nice try though. There is little more regulated. Not all industries get to determine market cost, regardless of the expense to provide that good or service. That too is beyond you. I'm not asking you to put words in my mouth Smith, I'm asking you specifically not to. What you put in your mouth is your business. I don't even want to know. Your reasoning is flawed, as always. It is just plain corrupt.

If you are asked what color the red and blue shirts are and you go off into a rant about the rainbow you are trying to change the subject not expanding it. They are not the same topic merely becuase they both deal with colors.

BTW your spiel about litigation still doesn't explain your contradiction of promoting "Government interference" where litigation is concerned even as you try to complain about "Government interference" in the healthcare industry. Why so contradictory?

So are you actually trying to argue that the heath industry doesn't increase the cost of procedures based on their profit margins and has no control?? If that is the case, do you care to PROVE that assertion instead of merely making the claim??

Furthermore, I have put no words into your mouth but instead of have asked you SPECIFIC questions about your own statements that you refuse to answer. For instance I asked you about your contradiction and you provide a response that mentions litigation and limiting it "within reason" which has to be done through "Government interference." However, you failed to address how that contradicts with your complaint about "Government interference" within that same post. Why is that?

Again You talk out of both sides of your mouth. To you something is a contradiction because you are incapable of grasping the meaning. That is a false premise. That is in effect what you base your philosophy of life on, false premise. There is no contradiction between the established role of the court, and the court overstepping it's authority, be it criminal or civil. There are appeals and rulings being overturned all the time. I personally know Surgeons that no longer practice because of the cost of Liability Insurance V.S. the compensation they are paid for the service. Government and Insurance dictate that. Though I know people in the Insurance Billing industry, it is not for m,e to say. Ask an Expert. I doubt you even care, other than to bitch and complain.

 

[Cuyo]

This thread is going exactly where I thought it would. Namely, showing that the tea party is unwilling to make the tough cuts in spending or tax increased that are needed to get to a balanced budget.

Cutting "waste' is not an answer. Every politician for 200 years has promised that.
Earmarks are small potatoes and will have minimal impact. Besides, everyone is willing to cut other peoples earmarks but not offer up their own
If we are serious about cutting debt we need to make the hard cuts. We need to redefine the misssion of the Armed Forces, end two wars entirely, raise the retirement age, cut welfare at both the individual and corporate levels.....

When will the Tea Party stand up and offer up some real spending savings?

Congressional priorities, none of which will pass the Senate or Obama.

1. Cut Spending, Target Depression Era Programs and Departments for elimination

2. Close the southern border

3. Audit the Federal Reserve We'd like to know who they gave our money to

4. Repeal ObamaCare, pass Whole Foods Health Care

5. Reform Fannie and Freddie so they have no role in single family home mortgages ever again. Out their SFH portfolio up for sale a la RTC.

6. Don't appropriate any funds for any of the Czars.

1. Specifically, what programs. If you're talking SS and Medicare, they have their own income streams. Eliminating them would be a wash, unless they were supplemented with other income sources. If you're talking about any other programs... There's not much there to cut.
2. You'll have to show me where that's any sort of "Cut" at all. Sounds more like a soundbyte.
3. Fair enough, I think we'd all like to know that... But the whole of TARP plus the expended stimulus funds don't even nearly approach this years deficit, let alone the debt. FYI I don't think you'll find an economist on earth that will tell you these programs (or similar programs) were un-necessary under the circumstances, how we got there notwithstanding.
4. "Obamacare" has had zero effect on our deficit as of yet. Speculate away as to future impact, but this does not address the current deficit whatsoever.
5. Delving into mortgage lending will be instrumental in preventing another meltdown, but is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
6. The "Czars" don't have "Funds" "Appropriated" to them in their capacity as a "Czar." In fact the term "Czar" is often a creation of the media.

 

[daveman]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? It is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

It's funny the way you pretend there's any answer you'll accept.

 

[daveman]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? it is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

Stop being so paranoid. No one is going to cut social security or medicare. What will happen and needs to , is to extend Bush' tax cuts, freeze spending, defund Obamacare and other wasteful programs like NPR.

What quid pro quo deal do you think the GOP can offer to the Dems that will make them go along with extending the tax cuts for billionaires, Lone?

Serious question.

If politics is the art of compromise (and it has to be given our division in Congress) what compromise do you belive the GOP can offer to the Dems?

The only compromise Dems will accept is their version of bipartisanship: Do what the Democrats say and STFU.

 

[Sallow]

I ask them and I know. It's not all that complicated Sallow. The rules here are very easily bent. My kids grew up here, my best friend is a Priest, my wife runs a pantry, Also through her job, which I will not mention, we deal with stuff all the time. You act like it's impossible to know. How many Hospitals around the Country are in trouble because of this issue. St. John's Hospital Just closed this year, that's two locations in Queens. The formula for health care is too convoluted. It is at crisis level and will bankrupt us.

Again..I've seen nothing that indicates that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy. There's something like 13 million (and shrinking) in a country of over 300 million. That's a pretty small amount.

And then you jump into this "convoluted" health care thing. What's convoluted about it? Revenue streams are pretty clear. 500 billion or so comes from reducing waste and cost cutting from Medicare. The rest of it is made up with people paying into the system itself. Where is the "cost" coming from? That fact that it's like 2000 pages long..is because of all the provisions Republicans larded into it..to make it to big to pass.

"Free" health clinics are not going to happen. For a variety of reasons. And since we just to let people here "drop dead" something's got to be done about the cost..which has been going up every single year..while services are being cut back. That..really made no sense.

 

[Sallow]

This thread is going exactly where I thought it would. Namely, showing that the tea party is unwilling to make the tough cuts in spending or tax increased that are needed to get to a balanced budget.

Cutting "waste' is not an answer. Every politician for 200 years has promised that.
Earmarks are small potatoes and will have minimal impact. Besides, everyone is willing to cut other peoples earmarks but not offer up their own
If we are serious about cutting debt we need to make the hard cuts. We need to redefine the misssion of the Armed Forces, end two wars entirely, raise the retirement age, cut welfare at both the individual and corporate levels.....

When will the Tea Party stand up and offer up some real spending savings?

Well they start with vague generalities then go for the illegal immigrant thing..because it's rote and easy.

But seriously..see if any president can address this problem? Regan tried, Bush tried..and they couldn't. Why? Lots of businesses love having powerless cheap labor. And on the whole it's a gain to government coffers.

But yeah..there are no serious answers from the Tea Party..just lots of rage and anger.

Come now shallow. You are just bitter because of all the lost ground from yesterday's election. Take solace in the few key victories you had.

Maybe it's time for the Individual States to play a more significant role. Let's give Federalism a chance, it's been too long a while since it's been tried. Centralized one size fits all government cheats everybody. It's excessive and wasteful.

I'm not angry. This about guarantees President Obama's re-election.

And the whole "Indivdual States" thing has been settled since the civil war. No you can't have slaves. Nope. Not a one.

 

[Cuyo]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? It is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

It's funny the way you pretend there's any answer you'll accept.

That's the point Dave, there is no answer. The "Answer" is that without tax increases, we will be running a deficit for quite some time.

We don't claim to have "The Answer," just pointing out that the tea-crowd doesn't. They nonchalantly say "Cut Taxes! Balance the budget!" but it's clearly not that simple.

 

[rightwinger]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? It is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

It's funny the way you pretend there's any answer you'll accept.

There are plenty of answers I would accept

- Social Security
- Medicare
- Iraq and Afghanistan
- Defense Spending
- Social Programs
- Farm Subsidies
- Business incentives
- Student Loans

There are some tough cuts in there. Many people would be negatively impacted. If you are serious about reducing the deficit and balancing the budget you have to go where the money is and you will have to force sacrifices. If you want to continue the Bush tax cuts, you will need to find an additional $4 trillion in cuts

 

[daveman]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? It is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

It's funny the way you pretend there's any answer you'll accept.

That's the point Dave, there is no answer. The "Answer" is that without tax increases, we will be running a deficit for quite some time.

We don't claim to have "The Answer," just pointing out that the tea-crowd doesn't. They nonchalantly say "Cut Taxes! Balance the budget!" but it's clearly not that simple.

It's got a better chance of succeeding than "Keep spending money that doesn't even exist!"

The left complained about the deficit...when Bush was in office. With Obama in, not a peep from them.

 

[Synthaholic]

"Yes, We Can". I believe that summed up Obama's campaign. Never did answer the 'can what?' thing... but we know now... and we just told him 'no, you can't'.

Live with it.

Too late! He's already made America better.

Let's see wingnuts take away those improvements. I dare them.

 

[daveman]

Your campaigns were full of rhetoric and bumper sticker slogans. Now that you have actually been elected it is time to put some meat on those bones.

Its easy to say "cut spending" "eliminate waste" "end earmarks"....now you have to actually do it. What are you going to cut? What will be the impact of those cuts? What will happen if they cut the Social Security, Medicare ?

How does a Tea Party candidate get things done in Washington? It is still the same old city.

I think they are in for a rude awakening and will be the same old Washington insiders they campaigned so hard against

It's funny the way you pretend there's any answer you'll accept.

There are plenty of answers I would accept

- Social Security
- Medicare
- Iraq and Afghanistan
- Defense Spending
- Social Programs
- Farm Subsidies
- Business incentives
- Student Loans

There are some tough cuts in there. Many people would be negatively impacted. If you are serious about reducing the deficit and balancing the budget you have to go where the money is and you will have to force sacrifices. If you want to continue the Bush tax cuts, you will need to find an additional $4 trillion in cuts

I agree -- it's not going to be easy. But the House and Senate Dems and Obama aren't going to agree to any spending cuts.

When the deficit continues to increase, though, you'll blame the GOP.

 

[Intense]

I ask them and I know. It's not all that complicated Sallow. The rules here are very easily bent. My kids grew up here, my best friend is a Priest, my wife runs a pantry, Also through her job, which I will not mention, we deal with stuff all the time. You act like it's impossible to know. How many Hospitals around the Country are in trouble because of this issue. St. John's Hospital Just closed this year, that's two locations in Queens. The formula for health care is too convoluted. It is at crisis level and will bankrupt us.

Again..I've seen nothing that indicates that illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy. There's something like 13 million (and shrinking) in a country of over 300 million. That's a pretty small amount.

And then you jump into this "convoluted" health care thing. What's convoluted about it? Revenue streams are pretty clear. 500 billion or so comes from reducing waste and cost cutting from Medicare. The rest of it is made up with people paying into the system itself. Where is the "cost" coming from? That fact that it's like 2000 pages long..is because of all the provisions Republicans larded into it..to make it to big to pass.

"Free" health clinics are not going to happen. For a variety of reasons. And since we just to let people here "drop dead" something's got to be done about the cost..which has been going up every single year..while services are being cut back. That..really made no sense.

13 million??? Where in NY? Maybe a tiny bit high. Seriously, you don't believe that number, not seriously. Here is the thing, at least related to Mexico, should the situation deteriorate much further, we are going to have a bunch of Political Refugees on our hands. It would be prudent to prepare for that. Should that happen, don't be surprised if those Immigration Numbers Triple, as in people already here, plus the borders being swarmed..I do have a Customer that is a Immigration Lawyer, his office is in Jackson Heights. You do know that if an Illegal can hang here ten years under the radar, without being snagged, they have a legal path to Citizenship?

 

[Intense]

Queens has been touted as a diverse borough that is home to immigrants from all over the globe, and a key component of New York City's melting pot.


But the sheer number of cultures represented by its 2.2 million residents truly sets the borough apart from the rest of the city and beyond, according to new figures released last week.

"Queens is probably one of the most diverse places on Earth," said Joseph Salvo, a well-known demographer with the city Planning Department. "There are 1 million immigrants and a mix that is perhaps unprecedented in this borough's history."

Salvo described recent borough population trends for a group of Queens officials last week with the help of a dizzying array of charts and graphs.

The foreign-born population of Queens increased 6.3% between 2000 and 2006, he said.

That population is almost equally divided among a number of Asian and Hispanic groups hailing from countries including China, Guyana, Ecuador, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, India and Korea.

China tops the list, accounting for 11% of Queens' foreign-born population. That includes people from Hong Kong and Taiwan.

A look at race and origin also underscores the unique complexion of Queens, Salvo said.



Read more: Queens one of 'most diverse places on Earth,' new figures show