Obozo forcing schools to give special treatment to disabled students

[Againsheila]

What facet of our lives will the feds take over next?. States need to put down their foot and say education is nowhere mentioned in the constitution and so, by the tenth amendment, ed is a state issue.!!

"reasonable" changes

As opposed to the Republican policy of "let them die".

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

Why not? You don't think a kid who can see can't still see the ball as it's making noise so the blind kids can find it? Do they suddenly go blind by association or something?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"reasonable" changes

As opposed to the Republican policy of "let them die".

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

Why not? You don't think a kid who can see can't still see the ball as it's making noise so the blind kids can find it? Do they suddenly go blind by association or something?

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

 

[saveliberty]

No point in argunig with idiots QW. If you can't even understand the limitations, then any comment by them regarding the cost of implementing is obviously unfounded. The federal government has no place in deciding what sports a school can have based on inclusion of people who can't play the sport. Girls don't play on boys teams in school as a rule. Why are those who don't have the equivalent skills allowed to play on the regualr teams? Why should we deny an even larger group the opportunity to play? I thought the government wanted to foster activity? These kids are going to be resented when programs go away due to costs. All in all a really bad idea.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

]

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

Yes - it's more liberal insanity. The real solution here is nullification. States need to void federal laws and programs that are unconstitutional and all federal involvement in education is that way.

 

[Samson]

]

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

Yes - it's more liberal insanity. The real solution here is nullification. States need to void federal laws and programs that are unconstitutional and all federal involvement in education is that way.

Relative of Truthmatters?

Evil Twin?

 

[Samson]

No point in argunig with idiots QW. If you can't even understand the limitations, then any comment by them regarding the cost of implementing is obviously unfounded. The federal government has no place in deciding what sports a school can have based on inclusion of people who can't play the sport. Girls don't play on boys teams in school as a rule. Why are those who don't have the equivalent skills allowed to play on the regualr teams? Why should we deny an even larger group the opportunity to play? I thought the government wanted to foster activity? These kids are going to be resented when programs go away due to costs. All in all a really bad idea.

Actually "as a rule" girls may play on boys teams, but usually prefer to play on girl's teams: Girls Basketball vs Boys BB ball.

What is extraordinary is the participation of girls on a WRESTLING TEAM. While the homoerotic association between male wrestlers might be inferred by some( e.g. Del), the HETEROEROTIC spectacle is to overt to ignore by any.

 

[bodecea]

What facet of our lives will the feds take over next?. States need to put down their foot and say education is nowhere mentioned in the constitution and so, by the tenth amendment, ed is a state issue.!!

Disabled students must be given sports, says Education Dept. - U.S. News

Jan 25, 2013

The feds are ordering schools across the country to make "reasonable" changes to sports programs so that disabled students can play — or else create separate teams for them.
The new guidance from the Education Department issued Friday was hailed by advocates for the disabled but denounced by a conservative think-tank that said it could cost big bucks for cash-strapped schools.

The new order from the Education Department says athletics is also a civil right for the disabled and schools that don’t protect it could lose federal funding.
Under the latest rules, schools must tweak traditional programs to give qualified disabled students a shot at playing as long as they can do it without fundamentally changing the sport or giving anyone an advantage

Damn that Title IX!!!!

 

[Unkotare]

Communities expect winning sports teams. They pay for the best attempt at winning sports teams. Your turning it into someting its not, nor should sports be about playing to the lowest levels possible. You want a noncompetitive leagues, fine form them, leave the current system alone. These noncompetitive leagues should net jeopardize existing sports programs.

Again, I think that if schools are putting more emphasis on having that "winning sports team" than actually teaching kids the skills they are going to need to succeed in life, we've kind of missed the point of public education.

Clearly, you don't understand what "the skills they are going to need to succeed in life" means, loser.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind these are the same rightwing nuts who opposed wheelchair ramps and every other simple accommodation for the disabled.

Apparently conservatives feel the same way about the disabled as they do about the poor, i.e.,

if you're not experiencing the full dosage of pain, suffering, and disadvantage that comes with your condition,

because someone somewhere has done something to make your life easier,

then somehow, according to the conservative madness they call conservative values,

some sort of injustice has been committed.

You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.

I know what kind of people people like you are.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What facet of our lives will the feds take over next?. States need to put down their foot and say education is nowhere mentioned in the constitution and so, by the tenth amendment, ed is a state issue.!!

"reasonable" changes

As opposed to the Republican policy of "let them die".

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

See, that's why I kept telling idiots like you to read the ******* .pdf.

 

[Againsheila]

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

Why not? You don't think a kid who can see can't still see the ball as it's making noise so the blind kids can find it? Do they suddenly go blind by association or something?

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

There's no question the seeing person has the advantage, that's not what your statement was about. You said seeing people shouldn't play baseball with the blind, no exceptions were noted. I pointed out that the of course they can and you then take it too far. Not my point at all, but go ahead and drag it out.

 

[Againsheila]

No point in argunig with idiots QW. If you can't even understand the limitations, then any comment by them regarding the cost of implementing is obviously unfounded. The federal government has no place in deciding what sports a school can have based on inclusion of people who can't play the sport. Girls don't play on boys teams in school as a rule. Why are those who don't have the equivalent skills allowed to play on the regualr teams? Why should we deny an even larger group the opportunity to play? I thought the government wanted to foster activity? These kids are going to be resented when programs go away due to costs. All in all a really bad idea.

This "really bad idea" has been going on for years and years. They have Special Olympics in our schools now so the special needs can compete. As I've said before, Obama's speech was redundant. Liberals jump on it and claim how great he is, conservatives jump on it and claim how stupid he is..you're both wrong.

 

[francoHFW]

Absolutely ridiculous RW hyperbole and fear mongering.

OP- To begin with, these are guidelines, not a mandate. The sky is not falling, dupes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No point in argunig with idiots QW. If you can't even understand the limitations, then any comment by them regarding the cost of implementing is obviously unfounded. The federal government has no place in deciding what sports a school can have based on inclusion of people who can't play the sport. Girls don't play on boys teams in school as a rule. Why are those who don't have the equivalent skills allowed to play on the regualr teams? Why should we deny an even larger group the opportunity to play? I thought the government wanted to foster activity? These kids are going to be resented when programs go away due to costs. All in all a really bad idea.

Actually "as a rule" girls may play on boys teams, but usually prefer to play on girl's teams: Girls Basketball vs Boys BB ball.

What is extraordinary is the participation of girls on a WRESTLING TEAM. While the homoerotic association between male wrestlers might be inferred by some( e.g. Del), the HETEROEROTIC spectacle is to overt to ignore by any.

How about boys playing on the girls teams?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Keep in mind these are the same rightwing nuts who opposed wheelchair ramps and every other simple accommodation for the disabled.

Apparently conservatives feel the same way about the disabled as they do about the poor, i.e.,

if you're not experiencing the full dosage of pain, suffering, and disadvantage that comes with your condition,

because someone somewhere has done something to make your life easier,

then somehow, according to the conservative madness they call conservative values,

some sort of injustice has been committed.

You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.

I know what kind of people people like you are.

Tell me something, why would I oppose forcing businesses in an area with high stoops to spend millions of dollars to completely remodel their front entrance simply because some jerk in a wheelchair doesn't like the fact that they are more than willing to provide assistance to get up the steps?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"reasonable" changes

As opposed to the Republican policy of "let them die".

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

See, that's why I kept telling idiots like you to read the ******* .pdf.

Once again, if I am getting something wrong, feel free to provide a quotation from the pdf to prove me wrong. Until you do, why don't we just assume I read it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why not? You don't think a kid who can see can't still see the ball as it's making noise so the blind kids can find it? Do they suddenly go blind by association or something?

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

There's no question the seeing person has the advantage, that's not what your statement was about. You said seeing people shouldn't play baseball with the blind, no exceptions were noted. I pointed out that the of course they can and you then take it too far. Not my point at all, but go ahead and drag it out.

I did not.

If you want to actually understand my problem with the government position you should read the thread I started on the issue, it doesn't delve into racist ranting to make a point.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

How about boys playing on the girls teams?

The PGA lets women play in it's events but the LPGA has it in their charter that men are not allowed!!! Why don't libs howl about that blatant discrimination?

 

[Samson]

No point in argunig with idiots QW. If you can't even understand the limitations, then any comment by them regarding the cost of implementing is obviously unfounded. The federal government has no place in deciding what sports a school can have based on inclusion of people who can't play the sport. Girls don't play on boys teams in school as a rule. Why are those who don't have the equivalent skills allowed to play on the regualr teams? Why should we deny an even larger group the opportunity to play? I thought the government wanted to foster activity? These kids are going to be resented when programs go away due to costs. All in all a really bad idea.

Actually "as a rule" girls may play on boys teams, but usually prefer to play on girl's teams: Girls Basketball vs Boys BB ball.

What is extraordinary is the participation of girls on a WRESTLING TEAM. While the homoerotic association between male wrestlers might be inferred by some( e.g. Del), the HETEROEROTIC spectacle is to overt to ignore by any.

How about boys playing on the girls teams?

I think it would be terrific.

Particularly Women's Volleyball

 

[squeeze berry]

I can't take statements like Sheila's seriously. She is the mother of a disabled child and her statements are solely concerned with the benefit to her child. If you were to hear from the parent of a normal child in a class with a disabled child, you would hear something entirely different. You would hear about how the disabled child had a bad day and took up the whole of the teacher's attention. They never got to open that science or geography book. The cost of accommodating the disabled goes beyond dollars and cents.

If costs are a concern, I direct you to the law that mandated strip clubs have stages to accommodate the dancers who are in wheel chairs.
Business | Strip Club Told To Open Stage To Dancers In Wheelchairs | Seattle Times Newspaper

Whether or not there are nude dancers in wheel chairs is immaterial. The stage must at least offer accommodation. Maybe the time will come when strip clubs MUST hire nude dancers in wheelchairs or even paraplegic dancers to comply with the law.

No, you wouldn't, because if that was happening than the special needs child isn't getting what he/she needs either. My youngest son was mainstreamed for art and PE and he came WITH an aid. He wasn't a disruption to the regular ed class but IMO an addition to their education. Those children would come up to us at the mall and talk to Andrew even though they knew he couldn't talk back. That's not a sign of kids that aren't getting anything from a special needs kid in their class. If a special needs is in a regular ed class, they are provided an accommodation. For many this means an aid, which takes that child out of the classroom if they become disruptive. If your scenario ever happened, then that school was not providing reasonable accommodations for the special needs child and everybody is a loser.

My oldest son is not as severely handicapped and I did hear about when he had a bad day. Seems he was being teased very badly. He went to his teacher for help and was ignored. He went to the lunchroom supervisor for help and was ignored. He went to the playground supervisor and was ignored. He went to the office staff for help and was ignored. He finally yelled at them and left the elementary school and came home. I got a call from the school saying my son yelled at the office staff and left campus for no reason. Since I was den leader for cub scouts, there were several other students in the school that knew my son personally. One of them went home and told his mother, without being asked, what had happened to my son and she called me. When I went into school to have a meeting with them, I called them on their "no reason". They admitted the fact that David had been teased excessively and they did nothing about it but allowed it to continue all day saying they just don't have time to stop everyone from teasing other kids. Good grief. All kids should have a degree of safety in school INCLUDING protection from harassment and if they go to an adult for help that adult should damn well help them. I don't care who they are. This led up to worse and worse incidents for my son until I finally took him out of school and home schooled him. The school tried to fight my homeschooling my son, even asking if I'd allow a behavioral specialist into my home to critique my parenting skills. I said sure, I didn't have anything to hide. After visiting my home several times and watching me with my child and my family together, we had the meeting with the district in which I announced I was pulling them out of their school which couldn't protect him from teasing and the behavior therapist took my side. She was an independent contractor, poor lady and she never worked for our district again. They sure didn't want to lose the money for my son. Yeah, David was high functioning, they provided very little for him. Couldn't even have the IEP meeting after school because they'd have to pay someone overtime.

My son had a bad day and he couldn't get ANYONE's attention, not even his teachers. I have a hard time believing one special needs child gets ALL the teachers attention.

A side note, after homeschooling David for a few months, his speech therapist came to visit from the school, by law he's still entitled to services from the school even if he's being home schooled. His speech therapist said she couldn't believe the difference in him and that home schooling him, to her, was the best thing I could have done for him at that time. He was learning, he stopped stuttering, and he was well behaved. In fact, she only visited him 3 times at home before determining speech therapy wasn't needed for him anymore. I imagine they got all 7800 for him that year even though I was homeschooling him and the speech therapist saw him only 3 times. The school district was probably upset she stopped seeing him as they couldn't get funds for him the following year when he was completely homeschooled.

often parents don't understand what it takes to mainstream a special needs student. They think it's easy.

the curriculum may need to be altered so they understand the material
maybe special technology needs to be acquired and the staff needs trained in its use
aids need hired and trained
the classroom environment may need to be altered to accommodate one student


if the special needs student is disruptive, then the other students suffer. Quite often that is the case.


usually, mainstreaming is relatively seamless however. but it takes extra time and effort.

Unfortunately many special need parents are not grateful for the effort. they believe it's an entitlement which extends to the staff working after hours to accommodate the parents schedule.

You come off as a helicopter mom.