Obamacare has Death Panels

[depotoo]

for anyone interested there is an ACA hearing going on right now with the IRS over implementation
House Ways & Means Cmte. on Health Care Law Implementation - C-SPAN Video Library

 

[Vox]

You don't even know what 'death panels' means. Do you even remember how that death panel talk began?

It was Sarah Palin saying this:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

Now, why don't you show us where in Obamacare does the law set up a panel of bureaucrats with the power to deny care to people who are not deemed sufficiently 'productive'

because, for example, they have Down Syndrome...

PolitiFact | Sarah Palin falsely claims Barack Obama runs a 'death panel'

And she was exactly right. That is what is a standard rule in every socialized medical system and that is why it is being implemented.

Not that I disagree that95 yo demented nursing home patient deserves less than 45 yo father of three. But this road is a straight one to extreme corruption and deterioration of the level of care for everyone

Then you can cite the provision in Obamacare that establishes the death panel that denies care to Sarah Palin's son?

lol, you're an idiot.

I guess I hit it right in the middle since there is nothig left except name callin

 

[NYcarbineer]

And she was exactly right. That is what is a standard rule in every socialized medical system and that is why it is being implemented.

Not that I disagree that95 yo demented nursing home patient deserves less than 45 yo father of three. But this road is a straight one to extreme corruption and deterioration of the level of care for everyone

Then you can cite the provision in Obamacare that establishes the death panel that denies care to Sarah Palin's son?

lol, you're an idiot.

I guess I hit it right in the middle since there is nothig left except name callin

You're an idiot because you're claiming that there are provisions in Obamacare that would deny healthcare to children with Down Syndrome,

but you can't cite the provision in the law that does that.

So, IDIOT, do you want to try again?

 

[Vox]

Death panels are disguised in limiting people's ability to afford healthcare simply by having large deductible plans that discourages people from getting healthcare.

Death panels are disguised as there will be a shortage of doctors that participate in Medicare and Medicaid which creates long wait times to see doctors that do take these insurance. People will get discouraged and not get the preventive treatment that would have prevented their death.

Death panels disguised as plans that determine what diagnosis they will cover and what ones they won't that will end in death.

Share I go on?

To be fair death panels are there already - in any type of insurance or medicaid or medicare one needs authorization for any type of treatment or diagnostics. If something is. if some medication is not FDA approved for this particular protocol it is going to be an uphill battle to get it payed by provider.

Obviously, it is not as drastic as under universal healthcare but it is there and the whole purpose of any healthcare legislation is to cut costs, no matter what blah-blah the medua js feeding you

 

[Vox]

Then you can cite the provision in Obamacare that establishes the death panel that denies care to Sarah Palin's son?

lol, you're an idiot.

I guess I hit it right in the middle since there is nothig left except name callin

You're an idiot because you're claiming that there are provisions in Obamacare that would deny healthcare to children with Down Syndrome,

but you can't cite the provision in the law that does that.

So, IDIOT, do you want to try again?

listen, DUMBASS, learn to READ. and COMPREHEND.

then come back to me.

 

[g5000]

In what you think is the ACA (H.R.4872 (Just for ole Greenbeard)), there isn't any Independent Payment Advisory Board.

So what's the deal? Are you a moron who doesn't even know what the ACA is and couldn't look up its provisions if he tried, or does the IPAB not exist?

Don't answer, rhetorical question!

On second thought, go ahead and answer.

Does the IPAB not exist? Or are you an idiot who's never even looked at the ACA? If the latter, why should anyone give a shit what you think is in it or your opinion of its merits?

Beginning with fiscal 2015, if Medicare is projected to grow too quickly, IPAB will make binding recommendations to reduce spending. Those recommendations will be sent to Capitol Hill at the beginning of the year, and if Congress doesn't like them, it must pass alternative cuts -- of the same size -- by August. A supermajority of the Senate (at least two-thirds of those present) can also vote to amend the IPAB recommendations. If Congress fails to act, the secretary of health and human services is required to implement the cuts.


The IPAB: The Center Of A Political Clash Over How To Change Medicare - Kaiser Health News

Is Kaiser lying dad?

You did not read the rest of the article:

Defenders counter that the law bars it from rationing care, restricting benefits or changing eligibility criteria. And, in response to complaints from the health care industry, Sen. John Rockefeller, D-W.Va., who was one of IPAB's architects, said that the board was specifically designed to reduce the influence of "special interests" on Medicare payment policy. Those interests, he and others say, have kept Congress from making the tough decisions needed to hold down spending and reduce the deficit.

How exactly will IPAB slow Medicare spending?

Under the health care law, the board is required to recommend reductions in Medicare if spending per capita is projected to exceed specific targets. From fiscal year 2015 through 2019, that target is based on inflation gauges. Beginning in 2020, the target is based on the growth of the gross domestic product plus one percentage point. Proponents note that IPAB won't impose a "hard cap" on spending, but rather will recommend ways to reduce spending. "IPAB is meant to be a fallback if the health law doesn't control spending as well as we think it will," said Robert Kocher, a former special assistant to Obama on health care.

Try again.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I guess I hit it right in the middle since there is nothig left except name callin

You're an idiot because you're claiming that there are provisions in Obamacare that would deny healthcare to children with Down Syndrome,

but you can't cite the provision in the law that does that.

So, IDIOT, do you want to try again?

listen, DUMBASS, learn to READ. and COMPREHEND.

then come back to me.

Post the provision in Obamacare where Sarah Palin would be refused care for her son because he isn't productive enough.

Or shut the **** up.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Death panels are disguised in limiting people's ability to afford healthcare simply by having large deductible plans that discourages people from getting healthcare.

Death panels are disguised as there will be a shortage of doctors that participate in Medicare and Medicaid which creates long wait times to see doctors that do take these insurance. People will get discouraged and not get the preventive treatment that would have prevented their death.

Death panels disguised as plans that determine what diagnosis they will cover and what ones they won't that will end in death.

Share I go on?

No, please don't, because you don't know what the hell you are talking about. They told us all this back in 1965/1966 when Medicare was enacted, and I am on Medicare, and see my doctor at least twice per year, and can do so with an appointment set 3 days in advance, maybe two, in spite of the fact that my doctor and I are both in a community in which no one can even buy into unless he is at least 55 years old. in addition to that, whenever there is an economic or service shortage, under our capitalistic system, that shortage will be met, which is the reason that my daughter became an RN, and more and more kids are going into medicine. There is not going to be a doctor shortage. Hospitals are crying all the time that they are on the verge of going broke because they can not fill their beds. Under Medicare, I just had lathroscopic surgery to remove a bone spur in my shoulder, and will be scheduling a colonoscopy for 2 weeks from now. Turn off your AM radio and join the real world. Under medicare, I am getting better health coverage than I have ever had in my life, and I was a health insurance executive.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Death panels are disguised in limiting people's ability to afford healthcare simply by having large deductible plans that discourages people from getting healthcare.

Death panels are disguised as there will be a shortage of doctors that participate in Medicare and Medicaid which creates long wait times to see doctors that do take these insurance. People will get discouraged and not get the preventive treatment that would have prevented their death.

Death panels disguised as plans that determine what diagnosis they will cover and what ones they won't that will end in death.

Share I go on?

To be fair death panels are there already - in any type of insurance or medicaid or medicare one needs authorization for any type of treatment or diagnostics. If something is. if some medication is not FDA approved for this particular protocol it is going to be an uphill battle to get it payed by provider.

Obviously, it is not as drastic as under universal healthcare but it is there and the whole purpose of any healthcare legislation is to cut costs, no matter what blah-blah the medua js feeding you

It is a seriously sad situation, Vox, that you fail to understand that anybody in the USA, in the past, in the present, and in the future, who wants a legal medical proceedure done, who is willing to pay cash for it, can do so, and therefore, have that proceedure done. It has always been this way. ACA does not change that. Death Panels? Only on Fox News Midnight Horror Show.

 

[Vandalshandle]

relatives is NOT YOU.

you do not have first hand experience.

Well, I do know this. Nobody there is making any kind of arguement to switch to our system. Nor, is any other country with universal health care. Are they all to stupid to switch?

They can not switch. The government won't let anybody even to start the discussion. They are abusing our system, though - the ones who are dropped by their universal healthcare because they do not deserve to be treted in that super-duper system

Ok, Vox, I get it. The entire industrialized world , except us, has a failed universal health care model, and they would all switch to OUR plan, if their governments would only let them, at least LET THEM TALK about it.

And for some reason, you do not feel that the FACT that Ford Motor Company is paying $7 per HOUR per EMPLOYEE for health insurance benefits in the USA http://www.autonews.com/article/20130624/OEM01/130629948#axzz2akTNu43y

has anything whatever to do with the fact that they are outsourcing automobile assembly to countries where they are NOT expected to pay ANY healthcare costs for employees. (Hint: $7 per hour per employee for 44,500 employees comes to a dollar figure per year THAT IS TOO LONG FOR MY POCKET CALCULATOR TO SHOW ON THE SCREEN! And so, the Right, including yourself, feel perfectly comfortable with our present system which forces our employers to pay exhorbanent costs for production that no other country saddles their employers with! Geeze, Vox, do you realize that Ford is paying more for health insurance benefits per auto produced than they have been paying for STEEL since 1979, while Honda is not paying a dime for their employees health coverage? Could that possibly have anything to do with the fact that employers HAVE to outsourse jobs to stay solvent and compete?

 

[Antares]

On second thought, go ahead and answer.

Does the IPAB not exist? Or are you an idiot who's never even looked at the ACA? If the latter, why should anyone give a shit what you think is in it or your opinion of its merits?

Beginning with fiscal 2015, if Medicare is projected to grow too quickly, IPAB will make binding recommendations to reduce spending. Those recommendations will be sent to Capitol Hill at the beginning of the year, and if Congress doesn't like them, it must pass alternative cuts -- of the same size -- by August. A supermajority of the Senate (at least two-thirds of those present) can also vote to amend the IPAB recommendations. If Congress fails to act, the secretary of health and human services is required to implement the cuts.


The IPAB: The Center Of A Political Clash Over How To Change Medicare - Kaiser Health News

Is Kaiser lying dad?

You did not read the rest of the article:

Defenders counter that the law bars it from rationing care, restricting benefits or changing eligibility criteria. And, in response to complaints from the health care industry, Sen. John Rockefeller, D-W.Va., who was one of IPAB's architects, said that the board was specifically designed to reduce the influence of "special interests" on Medicare payment policy. Those interests, he and others say, have kept Congress from making the tough decisions needed to hold down spending and reduce the deficit.

How exactly will IPAB slow Medicare spending?

Under the health care law, the board is required to recommend reductions in Medicare if spending per capita is projected to exceed specific targets. From fiscal year 2015 through 2019, that target is based on inflation gauges. Beginning in 2020, the target is based on the growth of the gross domestic product plus one percentage point. Proponents note that IPAB won't impose a "hard cap" on spending, but rather will recommend ways to reduce spending. "IPAB is meant to be a fallback if the health law doesn't control spending as well as we think it will," said Robert Kocher, a former special assistant to Obama on health care.

Try again.

Poor g, I read the entire thing...you seem to have a reading disability....I will again post paragraph two from your excerpt (which I have posted earlier)

Under the health care law, the board is required to recommend reductions in Medicare if spending per capita is projected to exceed specific targets. From fiscal year 2015 through 2019, that target is based on inflation gauges. Beginning in 2020, the target is based on the growth of the gross domestic product plus one percentage point. Proponents note that IPAB won't impose a "hard cap" on spending, but rather will recommend ways to reduce spending. "IPAB is meant to be a fallback if the health law doesn't control spending as well as we think it will," said Robert Kocher, a former special assistant to Obama on health care.[/

What happens when you make law saying we can only spend so much on any given procedure?

You either DON'T get the procedure BECAUSE of its cost....hmmmmm?

OR you are forced to mandate the cost of said treament....which will cause that treatment to go away....so sorry kid, keep trying.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"What happens when you make law saying we can only soend o much on any given prcedure?"

Then you do exactly what you would do had ACA not been passed. You would have gone to a doctor who does not accept your insurance plan, or even gone to the same doc, and told him not to bill your insurance plan, but to bill you instead and then paid cash for the proceedure.

Duh?

 

[Political Junky]

The immaturity in this thread is disgraceful!

You festering crap is ruining it for everyone else.

Either stick to the topic and not each other or get out.

You don't even know what 'death panels' means. Do you even remember how that death panel talk began?

It was Sarah Palin saying this:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

Now, why don't you show us where in Obamacare does the law set up a panel of bureaucrats with the power to deny care to people who are not deemed sufficiently 'productive'

because, for example, they have Down Syndrome...

PolitiFact | Sarah Palin falsely claims Barack Obama runs a 'death panel'

It makes about as much sense as anything else Palin has said.

 

[Antares]

"What happens when you make law saying we can only soend o much on any given prcedure?"

Then you do exactly what you would do had ACA not been passed. You would have gone to a doctor who does not accept your insurance plan, or even gone to the same doc, and told him not to bill your insurance plan, but to bill you instead and then paid cash for the proceedure.

Duh?

LOL...not even a part of the conversation kid, sorry.

The discussion IS about the IPAB.....and their power......jump in when you are able to keep up.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"What happens when you make law saying we can only soend o much on any given prcedure?"

Then you do exactly what you would do had ACA not been passed. You would have gone to a doctor who does not accept your insurance plan, or even gone to the same doc, and told him not to bill your insurance plan, but to bill you instead and then paid cash for the proceedure.

Duh?

LOL...not even a part of the conversation kid, sorry.

The discussion IS about the IPAB.....and their power......jump in when you are able to keep up.

Excuse me, Roo, but the truth of the matter is, as I stated abvove, NOBODY has the power to stop you or anyone else in America from getting whatever health care they want, just as no one has EVER had such power. If you can't follow that, perhaps YOU are on the wrong thread. The title of this thread is "Obama has death panels...." I have already demostrated that this is a false statement, although I suspect that Palin believes it, because she has the intellect equivelent to a sack of hammers..