Obama blames the rise of the machines for high unemployment.

[thereisnospoon]

Or course it is..

And you haven't been checking very well. Recently airports rolled out kiosk checkins that replace counter people. Try calling a bank or your cable company for service..you get an automated menu. In my industry off the top of my head I can come up with applications that have cost a good number of jobs:

TIDAL - Job scheduler. Trading applications and after hour processing are done through automation (replacing computer operators).
UTP - Universal Trading Platform - Trading is now done through automation through the use of "Matching Engines" (which replace brokers) and "Market Makers" which (replaces specialists).
PUPPET - Maintains Operating System Integrity (Replacing system administrators).
RUBY ON RAILS - Allows for rapid development of applications through the use of visio like interfaces ( replacing software coders ).
ABINITIO - Like ruby on rails but specifically for trading applications ( replacing coders ).

Add in most major corporations are provisioning more money for automation then they are for new hires. One of the major reasons for this..is they don't want to be responsible for health care.

Automation, in itself, is a very good thing. But technology should be something that enhances the human ability to be productive..not replace it.

It does.

Those ticket kiosks allow people who would normally be stuck in dead end jobs processing tickets that have already been paid for to be offered more opportunity to work in other areas. The fact that companies do not have to keep hundreds of people sitting around doing nothing but answer phones keeps healthcare costs down by putting them into jobs where they can get up and move around more. They also get a chance to get more pay and better benefits.

Every supposed negative you can name I can counter with a positive from it, both for the person negatively affected and the country in general. I really believe you are not stupid enough to want us to go back to the point where half of the workforce was labor on farms, and half of the rest was digging ditches. Why are you crying about the modernization of the workforce moving us into the future?

Question regarding your post...

An airline has 100 non flight personnel working for them...say 25 counter people....25 customer service people in the office making reservations.....50 luggage handlers.

Andf they cater to 1000 passengers a month

They institute the kisks and the auotmated phone system to take reservations....eliminating 20 of the 25 counter people and 20 of the 25 customer service people.

They still cater to the same 1000 passengers a month.

Where do they reposition those 40 employees that were replaced with technology?

Most likely, they are offered other opportunities within the company. Perhaps training is required. Those that wish to advance themselves, stay. Those that do not, leave.
Sometimes those displaced workers are offered severance packages. It is what it is.

 

[KissMy]

The President is full of shit! Obama is still trying to scapegoat his failure.

The plow & horse did not create permanent unemployment for farmers with hoes. The Steam Shovel did not do the same to ditch diggers & miners. There have been countless innovations throughout history that replace human labor. New jobs are always created by the advancements in lifestyles that outpaced the ones lost by labor replacing machine. If anything we have to many overeducated government dependent sissy's & to few blue collar workers to build oil pipelines & oil rigs, or operate drilling & mining equipment.

The only thing this country lacks is leadership.

The plow & horse did not create permanent unemployment for farmers with hoes


thats because the farmer usually did the work himself.....the the plow and horse just made his job easier.....same with the Tractor......but some machines have replaced people were there used to be hundreds working that job.....now there are just those feeding the machine and maintaining it....


The only thing this country lacks is leadership

i have been saying this quite often....

Innovation has wiped out over 90% of farm jobs!

I would like to see how many acres the average person could hoe by hand.

Before the horse & plow farmers only farmed 20 acres.

Farmers in the 1900s

Over the course of the 20th century, fewer and fewer people were employed exclusively as farmers. 41 percent of the workforce in 1900 were employed on farms. In 2000, only 1.9 percent of the population work in agriculture. At the beginning of the century, farm families worked together on the farm. In 1930, one-third of the families had a family member who worked off the farm for more than 100 days. In 2000, 93 percent of farms were supported in part by off-farm income.

The number of farms in the United States has fallen by 63 percent since 1900. The farms, however, have grown in size. In 1900 the typical farm was between 100 and 200 acres. As the century progressed, farms became larger, especially those on the Great Plains and in the far West. By 1997, the average farm was nearly 500 acres.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

My you live in a very small paradigm.

 

[ShackledNation]

thats because the farmer usually did the work himself.....the the plow and horse just made his job easier.....same with the Tractor......but some machines have replaced people were there used to be hundreds working that job.....now there are just those feeding the machine and maintaining it....

Do you see your logical flaw? Because the plow and horse made the job easier less workers were needed to do the same job. It had the same effect as your modern day example. Less are needed to do the same job. That frees up resources to grow and expand the economy everywhere else. The argument against technology is the argument that efficiency hurts economic growth. That defies all common sense and historical reality.

If you make the argument that machines destroy jobs, half our population should be perpetually unemployed due to the advances of the 20th century.

The argument is always the same: "textiles machines will put textile workers out of work" or "automobiles will put horse drawn carriage makers out of work" etc, etc. But the fact is these technologies are adopted because they are cheaper, better, and improve our standard of living. The money saved due to lower costs can be used to expand production elsewhere, creating more jobs anyway.

It is the fallacy of looking only at the effects of a policy on one group of people (those displaced by technology) and ignoring the effects of a policy on the whole (cheaper goods, more available resources, efficient production). It is the fallacy of looking at what is seen (the jobs replaced by machines) and ignoring the unseen (new jobs created to build the machines, and job growth in other industries. These other industries see growth because production technology functions to lower prices. Because of competition, consumer prices will fall, raising real income and allowing consumers to use their money in other industries. This demand will be answered with more employment in these other industries that will be forced to produce more).

Technology does not hurt net employment. It may shift it around in the short term, but in the long term we are all better off. Ultimately, it creates a more efficient economy that can support a growing population and raises the standard of living for all of us.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

SO you check the voting records and political affiliations of the owners/investors of those companies ,right?
And "you heard about a guy"....You said he did the same thing for 20 years...This guy was of the intelligence that he could program complicated applications but was not smart enough to realize after 20 years he might just try moving his expertise forward to perhaps keep up with newer technologies?...Huh?
So government (taxpayers) should fix the guy you heard about? And of course you know the WHOLE story...Not just the parts you mentioned?
Jesus Christ.

 

[thereisnospoon]

California's main problem is..hold on..to much democracy.

Yep.

They vote themselves some very nutty things...like never raising taxes.

Then they put people in jail for life for stealing video tapes.

That's expensive..and stupid.

and the majority of those voters are?.....dont be afraid to say it....

Prop 13 was passed in 1978. The governor at the time was a Democrat, but he was preceded in office by eight years of Republican rule, and was followed by another 16. Except for 1964, the state had voted Republican in six straight presidential elections. Yeah, it's pretty hard to claim 1978 California was some liberal paradise.

Yet California gives us such right wingers as Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Brown, and Barbara Boxer......
Please do not even try to say California is not liberal. That's not even close to realistic

 

[thereisnospoon]

California's main problem is..hold on..to much democracy.

Yep.

They vote themselves some very nutty things...like never raising taxes.

Then they put people in jail for life for stealing video tapes.

That's expensive..and stupid.

and the majority of those voters are?.....dont be afraid to say it....

It's a pretty liberal state to be sure.

But they are more "liberatarian" style Liberals then say..New Yorkers are..

Which are more Daniel Moynihan style Liberals.

My girlfriend, who is pretty liberal (she designs for a packaging company) is nutty over taxes. She's a 15% flat tax advocate. To me that's pure lunacy.

Why is it nutty...
That is the most equitable way to tax. As a matter of fact, everything except income is taxed equally without regard to wealth or income. We all pay the same sales tax, same excise tax Same fees and taxes on our cell phones, land lines, cable, satellite,....
Here's how it might work......All income is taxed at 15% down to a minimum level...Lets' say 30,000 for a single person, $50k for a married couple....All other income with no ceiling is taxed at 15%. NO DEDUCTIONS of any kind.
Individuals still pay for social security. The income ceiling for SS is GONE...If a person earns two million, they pay 7.5% of two million....
Businesses pay their taxes the same as they do now. Same everything.

 

[Sallow]

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

SO you check the voting records and political affiliations of the owners/investors of those companies ,right?
And "you heard about a guy"....You said he did the same thing for 20 years...This guy was of the intelligence that he could program complicated applications but was not smart enough to realize after 20 years he might just try moving his expertise forward to perhaps keep up with newer technologies?...Huh?So government (taxpayers) should fix the guy you heard about? And of course you know the WHOLE story...Not just the parts you mentioned?
Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry..you ever work in IT for a financial firm? You know what it's like? You have to carry a device with you 24/7, in the old days that was a beeper. Now it's a blackberry. They call you at all times. And you are expected to drop what you are doing and deal with the problem. Doesn't leave you much time to think about much else.

How did I "hear about the guy". Just who the **** do you think converted his software?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Are you kidding? I've posted threads about things I've thought Obama has gotten wrong, like extending the Bush tax cuts, our continued war in Afghanistan, and trying to include bat shit crazy republicans into policy.

For the first time in history..corporations are spending more on "machines" then they are on new hires. That shouldn't be concern? That shouldn't be addressed?

That might mean a re-tooling skill sets for many..which means..financing proper education programs to do that.

Conservatives are dead set against that. One of the issues holding up trade agreements with South Korea is a provision to re-train workers displaced by the pact. Who's against that? Conservatives in Congress..of course. They want the agreement without that provision.

It's no wonder that conservatives are pooh-poohing this issue.

All of those people that are making all of those machines that corporations are buying are employed.

And?

If you got three people making one machine that gets rid of 80 jobs..well you think that's a good thing?

Or do you think we as a people should be doing something to mitigate the impact of such a move.

Like retraining the 80 people?

Or..do just ignore the whole ******* thing and say it was those 80 people that are at fault for not continually going to school to upgrade their skills.

In other words..working 40 or more hours a week..and spending the rest in training.

Constantly.

Always.

Forever..until they die.

Do you really want an economy where no one is sure of long term employment?

Oh cry me a river. It is each person's responsibility to advance themselves with education.
No job worth keeping would allow a person to remain stagnant.
SO what if one must work and go to school? It's not as though every person who does try to learn more is going to school full time?
For example, ASE Certified auto techs ,must attend classes where they learn new technologies and familiarize themselves with new models.
In my business, I must take continuing education courses to maintain my certifications. If one wishes to remain marketable in a competitive job and career market, they must continue to learn new things. There is no sitting back.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm not gonna bother inserting myself into your conversations with quotes but I will say this. Why is the left so opposed to staying current with your education to the point that your marketable?

A) they prefer stagnation?

B) they prefer keeping their constituents dumb and needy?

And don't give me any of that have you ever worked IT BS. It's as if you have your industry on some kind of pedestal and no other industry is hurting in this economy. Every industry changes over time.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

SO you check the voting records and political affiliations of the owners/investors of those companies ,right?
And "you heard about a guy"....You said he did the same thing for 20 years...This guy was of the intelligence that he could program complicated applications but was not smart enough to realize after 20 years he might just try moving his expertise forward to perhaps keep up with newer technologies?...Huh?So government (taxpayers) should fix the guy you heard about? And of course you know the WHOLE story...Not just the parts you mentioned?
Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry..you ever work in IT for a financial firm? You know what it's like? You have to carry a device with you 24/7, in the old days that was a beeper. Now it's a blackberry. They call you at all times. And you are expected to drop what you are doing and deal with the problem. Doesn't leave you much time to think about much else.

How did I "hear about the guy". Just who the **** do you think converted his software?

No way....Hey genius....IT... THAT IS THE BUSINESS THE GUY CHOSE!!!!!
He knew the parameters of the job. If he was not prepared for the for the potential of the 2am service call, he should have chosen another career path.
FYI, the business I am in, my cell phone stays on 24/7/365.....I had two calls on Christmas Day of 2010. One at 1 am Christmas morning.....No whining. I knew this could happen going in. I chose this career.
And about those voting habits of the company owners/investors?
All professions, careers have their trade offs. So what?.....What about when public safety people must go to jobs in the wee hours? Media people? While we are sleeping off our New Years Eve hangovers, there are tons of people working...So what.
You're making very little sense here.

 

[Jack Fate]

So Mr. President... how many jobs have inventions like cars, aircraft, phones, television, movies, etc provided? The example this genius uses for lack of jobs is fewer tellers at banks with ATM machines.

Dumb ass.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Innovation has wiped out over 90% of farm jobs!

I would like to see how many acres the average person could hoe by hand.

Before the horse & plow farmers only farmed 20 acres.

not what i was saying.....i dont care if the guy hoed 30 square yards .....as machines came into being ....his job became easier and he was able to do more land by himself and his family........industry in the factories is were the machines replaced workers.....and in some industries it is still happening.....

 

[Steelplate]

I have no clue? Let me give you a clue!

At 16 years old I was certified as an adult and sent to prison. I did 3 years in a penitentiary built in the 1800's. While in prison I got my ged and nothing more. I married my girlfriend in my last year despite the fact that she was pregnant by another. When I got out I got my own student loans and went to college.
About a year later your precious uncle Sam sued me for all the aid they had given my wife during my last year in prison. They said pay or we will find the real father and make him pay (obviously bringing him into the picture when he wasn't wanted) Did I cry? No, I paid.
By now I have 2 children, I'm in school my wife is in school and were working days & nights.
Jobs are definitely harder for me to find then, than they are for anyone now because of my past. Yet we managed.
The trade school she was in went belly up and ultimately we had to continue paying her tuition fees. I dropped out of DeVry and bought an old highway patrol car. Painted it yellow and paid checker a 495 weekly franchise fee to use their dispatch and name. While driving I got an education in home building and blueprints. After finishing that school I sold my cab and used that money to buy the basic tools needed to start a remodeling company.
The first business failed within 2 years because I was ill prepared for the financial side of it. I muddled around for about a year doing your so called bs jobs until I could muster enough drive to try again. That was 20+ years ago. I have done a lot of HUD work in the last 10 years and have seen FIRST hand how the system is abused. Some projects I was even required to hire from within the community I was working in and pay them ridiculous prevailing wages. Like 17 dollars an hour just to push a broom.
I am now an award winning contractor who has been on the cover of industry magazines and have won awards from Angieslist for 6 of the last 7 years.

So in my opinion I have a very large clue about employment and how the govt and people alike abuse the system. In short if a scumbag like I used to be can go against all the odds to become a success story then I have no sympathy for those who havnt had near the hurdles I have.

Self reliance.

Because of the lack of message board knowledge of how to quote someone multiple times... I will separate your quote into numerical order.

1. What were you sent to prison for? None of my business... just out of curiosity. Surely it was not just from being "deemed an adult".

2. My "precious Uncle Sam"? You have got to be kidding me... I don't believe in Uncle Sam anymore than you believe in the Easter Bunny. My stance is that "Uncle Sam" is corrupt because of Big business and banking and only want to serve them. What you don't realize is that there is 10-100X the amount of people that don't fit in to the "business world" and need a decent paying job that they can raise their family's on. Too ******* bad if takes a billionaire's third vacation home away. The difference is.... you believe that "Uncle Sam" is corrupt because of the people that are committing welfare fraud. I firmly believe that Welfare Fraud is the lesser of two evils when compared to the Corporate welfare that is taking place across this country.

3. I have seen first hand the people that your side's agenda hurts. I have been working in the Mental Retardation(for those that lack the current understanding of the term DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED) field since 1986. What you DON'T understand is that when you choose to advocate for the dismantling of those pesky "entitlements", you are not hurting those you hate oh-so-much(the people taking advantage of the system), but those that I work with on a daily basis..... Why? Because the people you hate with such vigor can do one thing that those that I work with can't.... vote.

Finally... you do have a clue.... from YOUR perspective, and that's the problem I have with Conservatives in general. It's always from a person's perspective that does well for themselves. It's rarely from the perspective of the people that tried and lost to those that "made it".... and even on occasion when it does happen, it's NEVER from the perspective of people that have tried many times and ended up in the shitter.


Like I said... YOU have NO clue how things are skewed towards those with resources. I am really glad that you slipped through the cracks in an upward basis. You are a rarity... if you are not lying. Don't get me wrong.... I am not calling you a liar, it's just the medium we are using to communicate that makes lying an easy thing to do.... sorry for the non-intended slight, in advance.

 

[Steelplate]

I'm not gonna bother inserting myself into your conversations with quotes but I will say this. Why is the left so opposed to staying current with your education to the point that your marketable?

A) they prefer stagnation?

B) they prefer keeping their constituents dumb and needy?

And don't give me any of that have you ever worked IT BS. It's as if you have your industry on some kind of pedestal and no other industry is hurting in this economy. Every industry changes over time.

No one is saying that.

What people are saying is that... while some people may have the brainpower to aquire the skills of which you speak... other people don't and never will. So what you are saying is that even if EVERYONE relies on ROADS for their transportation needs(no matter how smart or dumb they may be), People who work on ROADS don't deserve a living wage because "anyone can do it".

I call you an elitist at the suggestion.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Do you see your logical flaw? Because the plow and horse made the job easier less workers were needed to do the same job. It had the same effect as your modern day example. Less are needed to do the same job. That frees up resources to grow and expand the economy everywhere else. The argument against technology is the argument that efficiency hurts economic growth. That defies all common sense and historical reality.

during the horse and plow days the farmer and his wife and kids did all the work on their farms themselves......as the Tractor came into being it made his job easier and now he was able to do more land ........and more crops growing on more land he may have had to hire more people.....etc etc.....in some Industries....Automation has cut down the number of workers that used to work there.....is all im pointing out.....which is what this thread has evolved into......"do machines replace people or not?".....im all for Technology....im not against it......

 

[Sallow]

All of those people that are making all of those machines that corporations are buying are employed.

And?

If you got three people making one machine that gets rid of 80 jobs..well you think that's a good thing?

Or do you think we as a people should be doing something to mitigate the impact of such a move.

Like retraining the 80 people?

Or..do just ignore the whole ******* thing and say it was those 80 people that are at fault for not continually going to school to upgrade their skills.

In other words..working 40 or more hours a week..and spending the rest in training.

Constantly.

Always.

Forever..until they die.

Do you really want an economy where no one is sure of long term employment?

Oh cry me a river. It is each person's responsibility to advance themselves with education.
No job worth keeping would allow a person to remain stagnant.
SO what if one must work and go to school? It's not as though every person who does try to learn more is going to school full time?
For example, ASE Certified auto techs ,must attend classes where they learn new technologies and familiarize themselves with new models.
In my business, I must take continuing education courses to maintain my certifications. If one wishes to remain marketable in a competitive job and career market, they must continue to learn new things. There is no sitting back.

It's lovely.

You're assigning responsibilities to the regular folk you'd never assign to executives.

Gotta love it.

 

[KissMy]

I'm not gonna bother inserting myself into your conversations with quotes but I will say this. Why is the left so opposed to staying current with your education to the point that your marketable?

A) they prefer stagnation?

B) they prefer keeping their constituents dumb and needy?

And don't give me any of that have you ever worked IT BS. It's as if you have your industry on some kind of pedestal and no other industry is hurting in this economy. Every industry changes over time.

No one is saying that.

What people are saying is that... while some people may have the brainpower to aquire the skills of which you speak... other people don't and never will. So what you are saying is that even if EVERYONE relies on ROADS for their transportation needs(no matter how smart or dumb they may be), People who work on ROADS don't deserve a living wage because "anyone can do it".

I call you an elitist at the suggestion.

The people who work on roads deserve a free market wage like everyone else. Creating political unions excluding all the other people who are capable & willing to work on roads to earn a living is just plain wrong. Unless people succumb to your group think you exclude them from earning a living is just plain wrong.

Diversity creates, lock step PC group think destroys.

 

[Steelplate]

The people who work on roads deserve a free market wage like everyone else. Creating political unions excluding all the other people who are capable & willing to work on roads to earn a living is just plain wrong. Unless people succumb to your group think you exclude them from earning a living is just plain wrong.

Diversity creates, lock step PC group think destroys.

No, what you are saying is wrong. I live in PA. It is not a "right to work state" that you people love so much.... but is a state that recognizes collective bargaining as a legitimate ideology...... at this time.

Let me ask you something. real quick... What if the "Free Market... as you call it" deems a worker's worth at $1/hour, even though that is a ridiculous sum in the U.S.A.?

What is a person(family) to do? succumb to the idea that Chinese folk are working for that wage and deal with generational poverty, or demand better from the country that ALLOWED those entities to move offshore to help supplement the people displaced by their own profiteering?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I have no clue? Let me give you a clue!

At 16 years old I was certified as an adult and sent to prison. I did 3 years in a penitentiary built in the 1800's. While in prison I got my ged and nothing more. I married my girlfriend in my last year despite the fact that she was pregnant by another. When I got out I got my own student loans and went to college.
About a year later your precious uncle Sam sued me for all the aid they had given my wife during my last year in prison. They said pay or we will find the real father and make him pay (obviously bringing him into the picture when he wasn't wanted) Did I cry? No, I paid.
By now I have 2 children, I'm in school my wife is in school and were working days & nights.
Jobs are definitely harder for me to find then, than they are for anyone now because of my past. Yet we managed.
The trade school she was in went belly up and ultimately we had to continue paying her tuition fees. I dropped out of DeVry and bought an old highway patrol car. Painted it yellow and paid checker a 495 weekly franchise fee to use their dispatch and name. While driving I got an education in home building and blueprints. After finishing that school I sold my cab and used that money to buy the basic tools needed to start a remodeling company.
The first business failed within 2 years because I was ill prepared for the financial side of it. I muddled around for about a year doing your so called bs jobs until I could muster enough drive to try again. That was 20+ years ago. I have done a lot of HUD work in the last 10 years and have seen FIRST hand how the system is abused. Some projects I was even required to hire from within the community I was working in and pay them ridiculous prevailing wages. Like 17 dollars an hour just to push a broom.
I am now an award winning contractor who has been on the cover of industry magazines and have won awards from Angieslist for 6 of the last 7 years.

So in my opinion I have a very large clue about employment and how the govt and people alike abuse the system. In short if a scumbag like I used to be can go against all the odds to become a success story then I have no sympathy for those who havnt had near the hurdles I have.

Self reliance.

Because of the lack of message board knowledge of how to quote someone multiple times... I will separate your quote into numerical order.

1. What were you sent to prison for? None of my business... just out of curiosity. Surely it was not just from being "deemed an adult".

2. My "precious Uncle Sam"? You have got to be kidding me... I don't believe in Uncle Sam anymore than you believe in the Easter Bunny. My stance is that "Uncle Sam" is corrupt because of Big business and banking and only want to serve them. What you don't realize is that there is 10-100X the amount of people that don't fit in to the "business world" and need a decent paying job that they can raise their family's on. Too ******* bad if takes a billionaire's third vacation home away. The difference is.... you believe that "Uncle Sam" is corrupt because of the people that are committing welfare fraud. I firmly believe that Welfare Fraud is the lesser of two evils when compared to the Corporate welfare that is taking place across this country.

3. I have seen first hand the people that your side's agenda hurts. I have been working in the Mental Retardation(for those that lack the current understanding of the term DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED) field since 1986. What you DON'T understand is that when you choose to advocate for the dismantling of those pesky "entitlements", you are not hurting those you hate oh-so-much(the people taking advantage of the system), but those that I work with on a daily basis..... Why? Because the people you hate with such vigor can do one thing that those that I work with can't.... vote.

Finally... you do have a clue.... from YOUR perspective, and that's the problem I have with Conservatives in general. It's always from a person's perspective that does well for themselves. It's rarely from the perspective of the people that tried and lost to those that "made it".... and even on occasion when it does happen, it's NEVER from the perspective of people that have tried many times and ended up in the shitter.


Like I said... YOU have NO clue how things are skewed towards those with resources. I am really glad that you slipped through the cracks in an upward basis. You are a rarity... if you are not lying. Don't get me wrong.... I am not calling you a liar, it's just the medium we are using to communicate that makes lying an easy thing to do.... sorry for the non-intended slight, in advance.

Like you I dunno how to separate quotes. To make it worse I'm on my EVO and can only see the last paragraph you wrote so ill do my best to respond.

1) I was charged with multiple crimes. They all revolved around a drug deal that went bad and then a subsequent escape from a juvenile detainment facility. I pled the charges down to : aggravated juvenile delinquency, aggravated assault, terroristic threat and tampering with a state witness. I escaped the following: aggravated arson, 2 counts auto theft, possession of narcotics with intent to distribute and some other minor charges. My deal took me from facing 5 to 15 to 2 to 10 I'm sure my young age was also a factor in the light sentence. I served all 3 years in Kansas State Industrial Reformitory in Hutchison Kansas.

2) I don't disagree that not everyone can lead and some must follow. And yes I do agree that the lobbying system is corrupt as are many of the politicians. But that doesn't leave us powerless. The last landslide election cycle is proof of that. Not necessarily pro republican as it was anti corruption. If that message is sent often enough change is inevitable. There are honorable people in our govt. We just need to find more. Personally if I see one of my congressmen/women vote self pay raises vote legislation that benefits them in any manner I vote against them in the next cycle. If more people paid attention and voted this way we could effect change. But alas many just sit back and cry about having no input so its pointless.
As far as your corporate welfare stance we agree. Unfortunately ending ethanol subsidies just failed to pass. I have yet to see how my congressmen voted but I will, and emails will be sent accordingly.
Your wrong on entitlement and welfare fraud though. I saw it bigtime both when I drove my cab as well as when I worked 7-11 and when I worked for the ACOE on HUD and military installations.

3) You can't preach to me about the needs of the disabled as my step-daughter has CP. I whole heartedly agree with a full safety net for those that can't take care of themselves. She had around 9 different spine, leg, knee, and neck surgeries before I met her mother. All paid for by uncle Sam.
To your assertion that I have hate for a segment of our country. I don't. Those that can do should do. My problem with entitlements is that they are simply unsustainable in their current form. Means testing, raising the age and partially privatizing I think are all good ideas to start with.

We all have a clue. And all of those clues come from our own personal lives. To claim yours are more valid than mine is absurd. Most of us have something to offer its just a matter of taking "all the ideas" and finding out what will work best. Criminalizing profit with outrageous taxation is not the answer. You know as well as everyone should that giving uncle Sam more money only guarantees 1 thing... they will spend it. I am certainly not wealthy but that matters not. I earned my money just like they did and the govt is not entitled to their money just because they made more than me.

Things are skewed to those with ambition. Money can get you ahead faster but that's about it. And I didn't slip through the cracks, I broke them open with hard work and walked through them with my head held up.

Lastly I couldn't care less if someone thinks I'm lying. This is the net and I have nothing to gain from lying. I do however have something to gain by telling my story as it happened... inspiration for those that think they have none.

Thanks for being interested and responding.

Ps. This is a real pain in the ass on my EVO so please no more long questions. This one took me 30 damn minutes with all the scrolling up and down.