Obama blames the rise of the machines for high unemployment.

[Jack Fate]

We Americans have been well trained to be satisfied with less service.

Yes, People choose price over service. It is hard to believe the "Full Service Gas Station Attendant" was one of the first customer service jobs I saw go away. I say bring them back.

Go to New Jersey. That state prohibits self service gas. Drivers have to wait while some grumpy asshole who hates his job and despises the customers to take his sweet time making his way to the waiting motorists.
The state may require attendants to pump gas ,but there is no requirement to perform customer service....And here's the best part. These low skilled shit heads look at the customer cross eyed because they didn't get a tip...**** 'em.

This is the way it was in the USA until the 1970s. Oregon still has the same law also.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Or course it is..

And you haven't been checking very well. Recently airports rolled out kiosk checkins that replace counter people. Try calling a bank or your cable company for service..you get an automated menu. In my industry off the top of my head I can come up with applications that have cost a good number of jobs:

TIDAL - Job scheduler. Trading applications and after hour processing are done through automation (replacing computer operators).
UTP - Universal Trading Platform - Trading is now done through automation through the use of "Matching Engines" (which replace brokers) and "Market Makers" which (replaces specialists).
PUPPET - Maintains Operating System Integrity (Replacing system administrators).
RUBY ON RAILS - Allows for rapid development of applications through the use of visio like interfaces ( replacing software coders ).
ABINITIO - Like ruby on rails but specifically for trading applications ( replacing coders ).

Add in most major corporations are provisioning more money for automation then they are for new hires. One of the major reasons for this..is they don't want to be responsible for health care.

Automation, in itself, is a very good thing. But technology should be something that enhances the human ability to be productive..not replace it.

It does.

Those ticket kiosks allow people who would normally be stuck in dead end jobs processing tickets that have already been paid for to be offered more opportunity to work in other areas. The fact that companies do not have to keep hundreds of people sitting around doing nothing but answer phones keeps healthcare costs down by putting them into jobs where they can get up and move around more. They also get a chance to get more pay and better benefits.

Every supposed negative you can name I can counter with a positive from it, both for the person negatively affected and the country in general. I really believe you are not stupid enough to want us to go back to the point where half of the workforce was labor on farms, and half of the rest was digging ditches. Why are you crying about the modernization of the workforce moving us into the future?

Question regarding your post...

An airline has 100 non flight personnel working for them...say 25 counter people....25 customer service people in the office making reservations.....50 luggage handlers.

Andf they cater to 1000 passengers a month

They institute the kisks and the auotmated phone system to take reservations....eliminating 20 of the 25 counter people and 20 of the 25 customer service people.

They still cater to the same 1000 passengers a month.

Where do they reposition those 40 employees that were replaced with technology?

Your problem here is you are looking at only one company, not the economy as a whole. Those 40 people might end up working for the company that took their jobs as they expand to fill the demand for more equipment to make companies more efficient. Unions oppose automation because they only think of themselves, not the whole country.

Nothing wrong with that, that is what they are supposed to do. Obama, as president, is supposed to have the opposite view. He should support policies that support economic growth for the whole country, even if they do immediate harm to someone who might vote for him.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hope and change and...excuses, excuses, excuses.

Gee, if only the shovel companies had ramped up production the stimulus would have worked!

Naw.

"Shovel-Ready" means building things. You know..like America USED to do.

For conservatives "Shovel-Ready" means blocking things...like if a bridge is about to collapse in your state..and it needs repair..a Conservative govenor goes "What Bridge"..till it falls down. Then he says "We had no way of knowing".

So when conservatives pat themselves on the back for morons like Christie when he blocks construction of a new tunnel from Jersey to Manhattan.

Or when Governor Rick Scott refuses high speed rail projects.

It's appalling when they are the first to ask "Where are the jobs?"

As in "Oh, the jobs you continue to block?"

BY "shovel ready" Obama was referring to publicly funded make work projects. Such as building roads. Great idea, but there was no funding from the states and there was no way the rights of way could be purchased( state or local money not in place). Nor were federal environmental impact studies to be fast tracked to start the projects. The Army Corps of Engineers does their studies at their pace. This also was never considered by President "Shovel Ready"..
The fact is there were never any shovel ready projects anywhere in the US.
The stimulus money was a slush fund for the President's use to spend on public worker union jobs.

 

[Jack Fate]

Obama fed us all a pile of BS about shovel-ready jobs and his supporters swallowed it like the rest of the BS he dished out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Of course, none of these machines that eliminate jobs existed until Obama became president........

lol...question is why technology was not the reason there was a dramatic increase of jobs during the Bush years.....

Funny how it had no affect from 2000-2008.....only an affect from 2008 to now..

Even though MOST of the technology was insituted in the early 2000's like voice mail...boolean searches....kiosks....etc etc etc..

Where is the media when Obama and his team says such rediculous things?

I think you are the one that is ignoring reality here.

Companies were forced to lay off workers as a result of the economic downturn. They then saw an influx of cash and, instead of going back to the old way of doing business, adopted new technology and innovated the way they do business. This has caused a disruption in the number of jobs those companies have, but it will also cause an increase in demand for new equipment, which will result in new jobs at other companies as they ramp up to meet the demand. Pointing to one factor in all of this and trying to fix that is stupid, because the overall result is good for everyone.

 

[Steelplate]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

 

[Sallow]

It does.

Those ticket kiosks allow people who would normally be stuck in dead end jobs processing tickets that have already been paid for to be offered more opportunity to work in other areas. The fact that companies do not have to keep hundreds of people sitting around doing nothing but answer phones keeps healthcare costs down by putting them into jobs where they can get up and move around more. They also get a chance to get more pay and better benefits.

Every supposed negative you can name I can counter with a positive from it, both for the person negatively affected and the country in general. I really believe you are not stupid enough to want us to go back to the point where half of the workforce was labor on farms, and half of the rest was digging ditches. Why are you crying about the modernization of the workforce moving us into the future?

Question regarding your post...

An airline has 100 non flight personnel working for them...say 25 counter people....25 customer service people in the office making reservations.....50 luggage handlers.

Andf they cater to 1000 passengers a month

They institute the kisks and the auotmated phone system to take reservations....eliminating 20 of the 25 counter people and 20 of the 25 customer service people.

They still cater to the same 1000 passengers a month.

Where do they reposition those 40 employees that were replaced with technology?

Your problem here is you are looking at only one company, not the economy as a whole. Those 40 people might end up working for the company that took their jobs as they expand to fill the demand for more equipment to make companies more efficient. Unions oppose automation because they only think of themselves, not the whole country.

Nothing wrong with that, that is what they are supposed to do. Obama, as president, is supposed to have the opposite view. He should support policies that support economic growth for the whole country, even if they do immediate harm to someone who might vote for him.

This is laughable considering the unrelenting conservative assault on new technology in the field of energy.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

I dunno, say... get retained for a new job? Adapt? Start your own business? Re-evaluate your choice in trade? Get more education? Regret not preparing for your future?

Or you could get on welfare and wait for the govt to fix your life for you?

Again ill ask. What makes you feel that the govt owes any of us anything. If everyone had your opinions at the founding of our country through the next hundred years we might very well be living under a different flag. But because we were a nation that could adapt and not wait for hand outs we still have our banner.

The amount of utter laziness that I've witnessed growing on this country in my short life tells me we are headed down a road with no good uturn spots.

 

[Sallow]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

 

[Sallow]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

I dunno, say... get retained for a new job? Adapt? Start your own business? Re-evaluate your choice in trade? Get more education? Regret not preparing for your future?

Or you could get on welfare and wait for the govt to fix your life for you?

Again ill ask. What makes you feel that the govt owes any of us anything. If everyone had your opinions at the founding of our country through the next hundred years we might very well be living under a different flag. But because we were a nation that could adapt and not wait for hand outs we still have our banner.

The amount of utter laziness that I've witnessed growing on this country in my short life tells me we are headed down a road with no good uturn spots.

It's part of the Social Pact. I work..pay taxes..follow the law..register for the draft. And they make sure I don't get screwed.

Otherwise..I don't need a ******* government.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Its amazing how liberals continue to vilify technology. If these nutjobs had their way we'd be living in tents without electricity. They don't want nuclear energy, coal energy, oil energy....and now not even automation which make higher quality products, because 'hey that was once a union job!'

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

And this is the perfect example of why privatizing benefits or the choice to do so is essential. He could have used equity in "his" benefits to retrain instead of waiting for uncle sams rules to kick in.

Self reliance

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

I dunno, say... get retained for a new job? Adapt? Start your own business? Re-evaluate your choice in trade? Get more education? Regret not preparing for your future?

Or you could get on welfare and wait for the govt to fix your life for you?

Again ill ask. What makes you feel that the govt owes any of us anything. If everyone had your opinions at the founding of our country through the next hundred years we might very well be living under a different flag. But because we were a nation that could adapt and not wait for hand outs we still have our banner.

The amount of utter laziness that I've witnessed growing on this country in my short life tells me we are headed down a road with no good uturn spots.

It's part of the Social Pact. I work..pay taxes..follow the law..register for the draft. And they make sure I don't get screwed.

Otherwise..I don't need a ******* government.

They've been screwing you all along. It's too bad you only just found out.
Myself, I've had my ears open for decades and have heard all the warnings about our useless safety net. And you are partially right. We don't need a govt in our personal lives. The purpose of our govt is supposed to be for protection from hostile entities not to baby sit us and allow us to succel at her teet.

 

[Steelplate]

I dunno, say... get retained for a new job? Adapt? Start your own business? Re-evaluate your choice in trade? Get more education? Regret not preparing for your future?

Or you could get on welfare and wait for the govt to fix your life for you?

Again ill ask. What makes you feel that the govt owes any of us anything. If everyone had your opinions at the founding of our country through the next hundred years we might very well be living under a different flag. But because we were a nation that could adapt and not wait for hand outs we still have our banner.

The amount of utter laziness that I've witnessed growing on this country in my short life tells me we are headed down a road with no good uturn spots.

As things become more and more automated... there will be less and less jobs to get "retrained" for.

What flag would that be? Ohhh... you must mean the Chinese Flag, right? Don't blame Government on that one.... well.... I guess the people that made the legislation for it to happen could be blamed... but moreso blame the mass exodus of the manufacturing jobs on the companies that did it with gusto.

The amount of laziness? Gimme a break. How old are you sunshine? What laziness do you speak of? I see people frustrated and lost. I see people every damned day when I go to work who sit behind the counter of a Convenience store trying to make a damned living doing a job that a high school kid should be doing. I see greeters at Walmart that should be retired, but have had their retirement savings squandered by Wall Street Casinos.

You have no clue of what you speak. You want to make everyone out to be a Crackhead from the ghetto, when the truth is far, far from that. It's called "DEHUMANIZING" it's a war tactic... look it up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I dunno, say... get retained for a new job? Adapt? Start your own business? Re-evaluate your choice in trade? Get more education? Regret not preparing for your future?

Or you could get on welfare and wait for the govt to fix your life for you?

Again ill ask. What makes you feel that the govt owes any of us anything. If everyone had your opinions at the founding of our country through the next hundred years we might very well be living under a different flag. But because we were a nation that could adapt and not wait for hand outs we still have our banner.

The amount of utter laziness that I've witnessed growing on this country in my short life tells me we are headed down a road with no good uturn spots.

As things become more and more automated... there will be less and less jobs to get "retrained" for.

What flag would that be? Ohhh... you must mean the Chinese Flag, right? Don't blame Government on that one.... well.... I guess the people that made the legislation for it to happen could be blamed... but moreso blame the mass exodus of the manufacturing jobs on the companies that did it with gusto.

The amount of laziness? Gimme a break. How old are you sunshine? What laziness do you speak of? I see people frustrated and lost. I see people every damned day when I go to work who sit behind the counter of a Convenience store trying to make a damned living doing a job that a high school kid should be doing. I see greeters at Walmart that should be retired, but have had their retirement savings squandered by Wall Street Casinos.

You have no clue of what you speak. You want to make everyone out to be a Crackhead from the ghetto, when the truth is far, far from that. It's called "DEHUMANIZING" it's a war tactic... look it up.

I have no clue? Let me give you a clue!

At 16 years old I was certified as an adult and sent to prison. I did 3 years in a penitentiary built in the 1800's. While in prison I got my ged and nothing more. I married my girlfriend in my last year despite the fact that she was pregnant by another. When I got out I got my own student loans and went to college.
About a year later your precious uncle Sam sued me for all the aid they had given my wife during my last year in prison. They said pay or we will find the real father and make him pay (obviously bringing him into the picture when he wasn't wanted) Did I cry? No, I paid.
By now I have 2 children, I'm in school my wife is in school and were working days & nights.
Jobs are definitely harder for me to find then, than they are for anyone now because of my past. Yet we managed.
The trade school she was in went belly up and ultimately we had to continue paying her tuition fees. I dropped out of DeVry and bought an old highway patrol car. Painted it yellow and paid checker a 495 weekly franchise fee to use their dispatch and name. While driving I got an education in home building and blueprints. After finishing that school I sold my cab and used that money to buy the basic tools needed to start a remodeling company.
The first business failed within 2 years because I was ill prepared for the financial side of it. I muddled around for about a year doing your so called bs jobs until I could muster enough drive to try again. That was 20+ years ago. I have done a lot of HUD work in the last 10 years and have seen FIRST hand how the system is abused. Some projects I was even required to hire from within the community I was working in and pay them ridiculous prevailing wages. Like 17 dollars an hour just to push a broom.
I am now an award winning contractor who has been on the cover of industry magazines and have won awards from Angieslist for 6 of the last 7 years.

So in my opinion I have a very large clue about employment and how the govt and people alike abuse the system. In short if a scumbag like I used to be can go against all the odds to become a success story then I have no sympathy for those who havnt had near the hurdles I have.

Self reliance.

 

[Too Tall]

This is remarkable given..



Automation..as this country has been using it..results in a very big net loss for labor.

Not recognizing that as a factor in the challenge to create jobs is a fool's errand.

(So by the way is trying to have a meaningful discussion with Mr. Shaman. I suspect he's a bot)

That was my point. The person I was talking to denied that it was a given.

On topic though I'm not stupid I know jobs are lost to innovation. But often times better paying jobs are created in the process. This has been the norm in this country since the industrial revolution. To pin blame for unemployment on this issue is like watching amatuer hour at a comedy club.
Why is it Obama can never do wrong? That alone is as absurd as his position on this topic was. Were it GWB you guys would call him a laughing stock.
Are those rose tinted glasses expensive?

Are you kidding? I've posted threads about things I've thought Obama has gotten wrong, like extending the Bush tax cuts, our continued war in Afghanistan, and trying to include bat shit crazy republicans into policy.

For the first time in history..corporations are spending more on "machines" then they are on new hires. That shouldn't be concern? That shouldn't be addressed?

That might mean a re-tooling skill sets for many..which means..financing proper education programs to do that.

Conservatives are dead set against that. One of the issues holding up trade agreements with South Korea is a provision to re-train workers displaced by the pact. Who's against that? Conservatives in Congress..of course. They want the agreement without that provision.

It's no wonder that conservatives are pooh-poohing this issue.

All of those people that are making all of those machines that corporations are buying are employed.

 

[Sallow]

It's amazing how Conservatives can see all this shit happening around them and then blame the people that are the casualties of this phenomena "lazy deadbeats" because they can't find a family sustaining job like they USED to have before they were replaced.

So tell me brilliant.... what happens when fully automated facilities happen? Artificial intelligence and robotics are getting to that point rather quickly. "lights out" manufacturing is in the very near future.

So I guess all the unemployed that result in that breakthrough will be deadbeats too. We are already at the point where there are very few jobs for everyday people other than menial crap. Sooner or later, it's going to have to get to the point where people have to come before profits in some way.

This is the problem of conservatism in general. It caters to the elite and shits on everyone else.

Two real world examples off the top of my head:

My ex-wife was an institutional investor. She did write ups and various companies, sometimes having to visit the site. One such place was a condom company in the south. They were moving operations overseas. She interviewed the employees and not one knew what was about to happen. Several hundred people lost their jobs in one day.

Another was guy I heard about was a COBOL programmer. He programmed an application that tracked OTC bond trading and he was expected to do 24 by 7 support for it. This left him little time to do anything else. The company was upgrading the application and didn't tell him..fearing he would leave before they cutover. He had worked long and hard for them for some 20 or so years..and needed a couple of more years before he could retire. Well they cut over the application and fired the guy. At the age of 52 he was left without a job..benefits...no pension until 65..and very few shops were using COBOL.

This is the way the conservative world works.

And this is the perfect example of why privatizing benefits or the choice to do so is essential. He could have used equity in "his" benefits to retrain instead of waiting for uncle sams rules to kick in.

Self reliance

You do have privatized benefits. What exactly are you talking about? You don't know about IRAs? 401ks?

How old are you?

Have you ever held a job?

Seriously.

 

[Sallow]

That was my point. The person I was talking to denied that it was a given.

On topic though I'm not stupid I know jobs are lost to innovation. But often times better paying jobs are created in the process. This has been the norm in this country since the industrial revolution. To pin blame for unemployment on this issue is like watching amatuer hour at a comedy club.
Why is it Obama can never do wrong? That alone is as absurd as his position on this topic was. Were it GWB you guys would call him a laughing stock.
Are those rose tinted glasses expensive?

Are you kidding? I've posted threads about things I've thought Obama has gotten wrong, like extending the Bush tax cuts, our continued war in Afghanistan, and trying to include bat shit crazy republicans into policy.

For the first time in history..corporations are spending more on "machines" then they are on new hires. That shouldn't be concern? That shouldn't be addressed?

That might mean a re-tooling skill sets for many..which means..financing proper education programs to do that.

Conservatives are dead set against that. One of the issues holding up trade agreements with South Korea is a provision to re-train workers displaced by the pact. Who's against that? Conservatives in Congress..of course. They want the agreement without that provision.

It's no wonder that conservatives are pooh-poohing this issue.

All of those people that are making all of those machines that corporations are buying are employed.

And?

If you got three people making one machine that gets rid of 80 jobs..well you think that's a good thing?

Or do you think we as a people should be doing something to mitigate the impact of such a move.

Like retraining the 80 people?

Or..do just ignore the whole ******* thing and say it was those 80 people that are at fault for not continually going to school to upgrade their skills.

In other words..working 40 or more hours a week..and spending the rest in training.

Constantly.

Always.

Forever..until they die.

Do you really want an economy where no one is sure of long term employment?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Q: As a Machine, what is your reaction to being blamed by Obama for high unemployment?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuUqpZgHiEE]YouTube - ‪The Terminator - **** you asshole‬‏[/ame]

 

[Harry Dresden]

So we should get rid of ATM's. E-Z Pass, self checkouts, self serve gasoline, back hoes bulldozers and everything else that increases efficiency and reduces costs....
You people are idiots.

i dont see anyone here saying that.....i see people saying that in certain industries Automation has reduced the amount of people working for said Industry....

 

[Harry Dresden]

When exactly was that suggested?

Recognizing a problem is the first step in solving it.

Which is why conservatives can never solve problems.

But they have absolutely no trouble creating them.

come on Sallow.....have you been to California?.....a very Liberal State with Liberals in the majority who have played a big part in creating Cals problems as well as not coming up with a hell of a lot of plans to fix it....BECAUSE.....the words ....STOP ******* SPENDING.....does not resonate out here to well....