Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

[Liability]

By your logic then, the years of repudiations by Democrats that voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are responsible for that. Their claims of not having 'all the information' are partisan lies.

i don't think your first sentence makes much sense, but if you're saying that the Democrats who voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are culpable for the clusterfuck that war was, then yes, I agree. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to "punish" them other than to not vote for them, though.

But yes, I do think anyone who voted for the Iraq war should be held responsible. Of course, they were given completely false intelligence data to sway them. And I'm not sure exactly how false the Bush II Team knew the data was, but clearly there were some mitigating circumstances.

HR6028 spelled out what the funds were for; Issa voted for them. So that's where the comparison sharply turns.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HR 6028 didn't spell out the operational details of ANYTHING. You can go read all 50-some pages of it here Text of H.R.6028 as Referred in Senate: Merida Initiative to Combat Illicit Narcotics and Reduce Organized Crime... OpenCongress if you'd like.

libbederp gets all flummoxed if you force facts upon his preconceived notions.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

By your logic then, the years of repudiations by Democrats that voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are responsible for that. Their claims of not having 'all the information' are partisan lies.

i don't think your first sentence makes much sense, but if you're saying that the Democrats who voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are culpable for the clusterfuck that war was, then yes, I agree. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to "punish" them other than to not vote for them, though.

But yes, I do think anyone who voted for the Iraq war should be held responsible. Of course, they were given completely false intelligence data to sway them. And I'm not sure exactly how false the Bush II Team knew the data was, but clearly there were some mitigating circumstances.

HR6028 spelled out what the funds were for; Issa voted for them. So that's where the comparison sharply turns.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HR 6028 didn't spell out the operational details of ANYTHING. You can go read all 50-some pages of it here Text of H.R.6028 as Referred in Senate: Merida Initiative to Combat Illicit Narcotics and Reduce Organized Crime... OpenCongress if you'd like.

So it didn't mention this stuff?

(5) on January 16, 2008, ATF announced that it will add 25 special agents and 15 inspectors to their Project Gunrunner along the Southwest Border. And, the ATF budget request for fiscal year 2009 includes funding for another 12 inspectors; and
(6) an effective strategy to combat these illegal arms flows is a critical part of a United States contribution to a jointly executed anti-narcotics strategy with Mexico.
(b) Project Gunrunner Initiative-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, to the extent amounts are made available to carry out this subsection pursuant to paragraph (4), use such amounts for the Project Gunrunner initiative (hereafter in this subsection referred to as the ‘initiative’) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to expand the resources provided to identify, investigate, and prosecute individuals involved in the trafficking of firearms across the United States-Mexico border.

I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama Fluffers are gagging on F&F

 

[GuyPinestra]

i don't think your first sentence makes much sense, but if you're saying that the Democrats who voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are culpable for the clusterfuck that war was, then yes, I agree. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to "punish" them other than to not vote for them, though.

But yes, I do think anyone who voted for the Iraq war should be held responsible. Of course, they were given completely false intelligence data to sway them. And I'm not sure exactly how false the Bush II Team knew the data was, but clearly there were some mitigating circumstances.

HR6028 spelled out what the funds were for; Issa voted for them. So that's where the comparison sharply turns.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HR 6028 didn't spell out the operational details of ANYTHING. You can go read all 50-some pages of it here Text of H.R.6028 as Referred in Senate: Merida Initiative to Combat Illicit Narcotics and Reduce Organized Crime... OpenCongress if you'd like.

So it didn't mention this stuff?

(5) on January 16, 2008, ATF announced that it will add 25 special agents and 15 inspectors to their Project Gunrunner along the Southwest Border. And, the ATF budget request for fiscal year 2009 includes funding for another 12 inspectors; and
(6) an effective strategy to combat these illegal arms flows is a critical part of a United States contribution to a jointly executed anti-narcotics strategy with Mexico.
(b) Project Gunrunner Initiative-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, to the extent amounts are made available to carry out this subsection pursuant to paragraph (4), use such amounts for the Project Gunrunner initiative (hereafter in this subsection referred to as the ‘initiative’) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to expand the resources provided to identify, investigate, and prosecute individuals involved in the trafficking of firearms across the United States-Mexico border.

I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HR 6028 didn't spell out the operational details of ANYTHING. You can go read all 50-some pages of it here Text of H.R.6028 as Referred in Senate: Merida Initiative to Combat Illicit Narcotics and Reduce Organized Crime... OpenCongress if you'd like.

So it didn't mention this stuff?

(5) on January 16, 2008, ATF announced that it will add 25 special agents and 15 inspectors to their Project Gunrunner along the Southwest Border. And, the ATF budget request for fiscal year 2009 includes funding for another 12 inspectors; and
(6) an effective strategy to combat these illegal arms flows is a critical part of a United States contribution to a jointly executed anti-narcotics strategy with Mexico.
(b) Project Gunrunner Initiative-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, to the extent amounts are made available to carry out this subsection pursuant to paragraph (4), use such amounts for the Project Gunrunner initiative (hereafter in this subsection referred to as the ‘initiative&#8217 of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to expand the resources provided to identify, investigate, and prosecute individuals involved in the trafficking of firearms across the United States-Mexico border.

I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

 

[Jarhead]

So it didn't mention this stuff?



I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

Most Americans didnt even care about who fucked up. Most Americans dont give a crap about covert operations...all they care about is what their plans are for the weekend.

However...ALL Americans should care as to why the AG lied...and if he lied about F and F then what else has he lied about.

Why?

Becuase it could affect their plans for the weekend if we have people in high places lying to us.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So it didn't mention this stuff?



I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

I see you've lost your red star....let me help you find it.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

Most Americans didnt even care about who fucked up. Most Americans dont give a crap about covert operations...all they care about is what their plans are for the weekend.

However...ALL Americans should care as to why the AG lied...and if he lied about F and F then what else has he lied about.

Why?

Becuase it could affect their plans for the weekend if we have people in high places lying to us.

There are a lot of different stories about how many offers were made to Issa to view the documents he wanted One was that he was offered the view them in private, and he refused. Now, I get that disclosure is important and all that, but for the Right to just plug their ears and go "la la la" to the overtly partisan jockeying that Issa's been doing is crazy-town, and it WILL get out.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

I see you've lost your red star....let me help you find it.

Glad to see how talented you are at debating.

YAWN.

 

[Jarhead]

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

Most Americans didnt even care about who fucked up. Most Americans dont give a crap about covert operations...all they care about is what their plans are for the weekend.

However...ALL Americans should care as to why the AG lied...and if he lied about F and F then what else has he lied about.

Why?

Becuase it could affect their plans for the weekend if we have people in high places lying to us.

There are a lot of different stories about how many offers were made to Issa to view the documents he wanted One was that he was offered the view them in private, and he refused. Now, I get that disclosure is important and all that, but for the Right to just plug their ears and go "la la la" to the overtly partisan jockeying that Issa's been doing is crazy-town, and it WILL get out.

you are wrong.

He was not offered to see them at all.

He was offered a personal briefing on what the documents said.

And who offered him that briefing?

The same man who said one thing and then recanted and said another.

But no...he was never offered the docs themseleves

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

I see you've lost your red star....let me help you find it.

Glad to see how talented you are at debating.

YAWN.

I'm not into beating dead horses. Initial reactions are fun to express and debate but then it just becomes a pissing match. At that point I'm out. You guys can piss in the wind all you want. It's rather pointless.

Enjoy

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Most Americans didnt even care about who fucked up. Most Americans dont give a crap about covert operations...all they care about is what their plans are for the weekend.

However...ALL Americans should care as to why the AG lied...and if he lied about F and F then what else has he lied about.

Why?

Becuase it could affect their plans for the weekend if we have people in high places lying to us.

There are a lot of different stories about how many offers were made to Issa to view the documents he wanted One was that he was offered the view them in private, and he refused. Now, I get that disclosure is important and all that, but for the Right to just plug their ears and go "la la la" to the overtly partisan jockeying that Issa's been doing is crazy-town, and it WILL get out.

you are wrong.

He was not offered to see them at all.

He was offered a personal briefing on what the documents said.

And who offered him that briefing?

The same man who said one thing and then recanted and said another.

But no...he was never offered the docs themseleves

i don't know; I think there was an offer to see the docs, or at least that's one of the stories out there. My point in all of this stands though: it's partisanship, nothing more. If it weren't, at least ONE Democrat on the Committee would have voted Yea.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

I see you've lost your red star....let me help you find it.

Glad to see how talented you are at debating.

YAWN.

I'm not into beating dead horses. Initial reactions are fun to express and debate but then it just becomes a pissing match. At that point I'm out. You guys can piss in the wind all you want. It's rather pointless.

Enjoy

Well, your neg-rep is even more curious then. But whatever dude. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Liability]

There are a lot of different stories about how many offers were made to Issa to view the documents he wanted One was that he was offered the view them in private, and he refused. Now, I get that disclosure is important and all that, but for the Right to just plug their ears and go "la la la" to the overtly partisan jockeying that Issa's been doing is crazy-town, and it WILL get out.

you are wrong.

He was not offered to see them at all.

He was offered a personal briefing on what the documents said.

And who offered him that briefing?

The same man who said one thing and then recanted and said another.

But no...he was never offered the docs themseleves

i don't know; I think there was an offer to see the docs, or at least that's one of the stories out there. My point in all of this stands though: it's partisanship, nothing more. If it weren't, at least ONE Democrat on the Committee would have voted Yea.

Your premise is false and you are hideously illogical, dimwit.

If the liberal Democratics weren't purely partisan, then at least one of them would have had the integrity to call bullshit on Holder.

 

[kaz]

Oh the horror. This is the first time any cheif executive has done this huh?

Nixon tried to use it as a cover up tactic, how did that work out for him?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Glad to see how talented you are at debating.

YAWN.

I'm not into beating dead horses. Initial reactions are fun to express and debate but then it just becomes a pissing match. At that point I'm out. You guys can piss in the wind all you want. It's rather pointless.

Enjoy

Well, your neg-rep is even more curious then. But whatever dude. Whatever floats your boat.

I was just trying to help you find your lost red star. I see you've found it again so alls well that ends well.

 

[Liability]

I'm not into beating dead horses. Initial reactions are fun to express and debate but then it just becomes a pissing match. At that point I'm out. You guys can piss in the wind all you want. It's rather pointless.

Enjoy

Well, your neg-rep is even more curious then. But whatever dude. Whatever floats your boat.

I was just trying to help you find your lost red star. I see you've found it again so alls well that ends well.

I like to help libbiederrps.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Glad to see how talented you are at debating.

YAWN.

Ironic post is ironic....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Bill is dated 2008, Fast & Furious began in 2009. The Merida Initiative may have funded Fast & Furious, but it should be obvious that NOONE voting for it could have known the fuck up that came from it after it's passage.

And just for the record, I was adamantly opposed to the Bill and disgusted when it passed.

Sorry, buddy. But these are Congressional members we're talking about. If they had wanted to, they could have inquired more as to what "Project Gunrunner" was, and they didn't. All of this speaks to the idiocy that is Issa thinking he has any kind of real moral high ground on this issue. He doesn't. In fact, if he continues this partisan hatchet job on Holder, the American people are going to get all the facts, see it as a fuck up, but not a fuck up that either Holder or Obama can be held accountable for, and Issa will end up looking like the Republican fools on the House Committee investigating the Monica Lewinsky/Paula Jones fiasco.

Americans aren't like most of us; they're much less partisan. They just want to know who fucked up, what's being done to fix it, and what can be done to avoid it in the future. If Issa's investigation had actually brought in the head of the ATF and the ATF Phoenix branch, then he'd have something to stand on. But this is nothing more than partisanship, and it's pretty clear.

Most Americans didnt even care about who fucked up. Most Americans dont give a crap about covert operations...all they care about is what their plans are for the weekend.

However...ALL Americans should care as to why the AG lied...and if he lied about F and F then what else has he lied about.

Why?

Becuase it could affect their plans for the weekend if we have people in high places lying to us.

They only care when it's made aware to them
If they don't hear about it on CBS NBC ABC then it must not be true.,

 

[Uncensored2008]

They only care when it's made aware to them
If they don't hear about it on CBS NBC ABC then it must not be true.,

Then it just became true, because even the DNC press is reporting it now.