NY Gov. Proposed 1 Billion in School Cuts.

[Navy1960]

ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson proposed what would be the largest cut to school aid in more than two decades and nearly $1 billion in new or increased taxes and fees as he unveiled his budget on Tuesday, a plan that is sure to touch off fierce opposition in the Legislature.

Governor Paterson Seeks $1 Billion More in Taxes and Fees for New York - NYTimes.com


After giving this a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that from a fiscal standpoint what choice does the state have other than cut even more services such as police and fire. It does seem to add fuel to the argument that adding attional mandates to states in the form of healthcare will result in even more such proposals. What I also find interesting here is that the Govt. has spend literally millions in wasted projects, in the name of Stimulus, and it would seem to me that if you really wanted to stimuluate anything you would want to invest in young people i.e. schools and qualified teachers rather than saving turtles and marsh mice.

 

[WillowTree]

this is good,, tax em til the tax base up and leaves then tax the ones who are left til they leave too.. Perfect.

 

[Modbert]

After giving this a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that from a fiscal standpoint what choice does the state have other than cut even more services such as police and fire. It does seem to add fuel to the argument that adding attional mandates to states in the form of healthcare will result in even more such proposals. What I also find interesting here is that the Govt. has spend literally millions in wasted projects, in the name of Stimulus, and it would seem to me that if you really wanted to stimuluate anything you would want to invest in young people i.e. schools and qualified teachers rather than saving turtles and marsh mice.

The only reason why Stimulus money would be wasted is the Governors in those states wasted it.

You're seeing much of the Stimulus money being illegally attempted from being diverted to schools to pet projects, etc.

Stimulus funds have helped Oakland schools, but what happens now? – Oakland North -- North Oakland News, Food, Art and Events.

While these transportation projects may be the most visible signs of federal dollars, more than $17 million of the Bay Area’s stimulus money has ended up in Oakland’s public school classrooms. This money has helped lessen the impact of the California budget crisis, at least for now.

One example.

 

[Navy1960]

Transportation and infrastructure is perhaps the worst method to stimulate the economy in terms of long term employment. While yes, there i no doubt that building and repairing roads is needed in many places, those jobs created in doing so are only temporary construction jobs and in some cases non-existant. What you see in NY is pretty typical of what a lot of states are facing a massive budget shortfall and not enough revenue to make up for it. So they begin by cutting servies such as schools, ROAD CONSTRUCTION, police, fire, etc. in order to survive , even with an influx of money intended to build those roads. Now add to that if it passes an additional mandate to fund state Medicaid and you have even more cuts. If the purpose is to actually use taxpayer money to stimulate an economy then do it, and target those fund to the creation of long term jobs, and long term needs. schools would come to mind.

 

[Modbert]

Transportation and infrastructure is perhaps the worst method to stimulate the economy in terms of long term employment. While yes, there i no doubt that building and repairing roads is needed in many places, those jobs created in doing so are only temporary construction jobs and in some cases non-existant. What you see in NY is pretty typical of what a lot of states are facing a massive budget shortfall and not enough revenue to make up for it. So they begin by cutting servies such as schools, ROAD CONSTRUCTION, police, fire, etc. in order to survive , even with an influx of money intended to build those roads. Now add to that if it passes an additional mandate to fund state Medicaid and you have even more cuts. If the purpose is to actually use taxpayer money to stimulate an economy then do it, and target those fund to the creation of long term jobs, and long term needs. schools would come to mind.

The Stimulus job was to present the opportunity for jobs to be created and so they can be kept in the future when the economy was bad. Even in the name itself, Stimulus. As in to stimulate the economy when it was bad.

stimulus - definition of stimulus by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

New York is in a massive budget shortfall due to wasteful spending and other things. I know that services such as road construction, police, etc are the first to go in a bad economy. Come by my state, the roads suck.

 

[Navy1960]

Transportation and infrastructure is perhaps the worst method to stimulate the economy in terms of long term employment. While yes, there i no doubt that building and repairing roads is needed in many places, those jobs created in doing so are only temporary construction jobs and in some cases non-existant. What you see in NY is pretty typical of what a lot of states are facing a massive budget shortfall and not enough revenue to make up for it. So they begin by cutting servies such as schools, ROAD CONSTRUCTION, police, fire, etc. in order to survive , even with an influx of money intended to build those roads. Now add to that if it passes an additional mandate to fund state Medicaid and you have even more cuts. If the purpose is to actually use taxpayer money to stimulate an economy then do it, and target those fund to the creation of long term jobs, and long term needs. schools would come to mind.

The Stimulus job was to present the opportunity for jobs to be created and so they can be kept in the future when the economy was bad. Even in the name itself, Stimulus. As in to stimulate the economy when it was bad.

stimulus - definition of stimulus by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

New York is in a massive budget shortfall due to wasteful spending and other things. I know that services such as road construction, police, etc are the first to go in a bad economy. Come by my state, the roads suck.

Well Dogbert, the whole premise in my mind was flawed because generally when a state is doing badly for economic reasons, low tax base, poor spending whatever, usually one of the first things to be cut is road construction. So a stimulus plan that supposes to give a state a blank check then say.. " here you go spend this on "shovel ready" projects, sort of assumes the state will actually do that. They might, eventually or then again , they might as with the case here as they love to do put those orange traffic cones up and leave them there for about 3 or 4 years and claim they are doing something.

 

[Modbert]

Well Dogbert, the whole premise in my mind was flawed because generally when a state is doing badly for economic reasons, low tax base, poor spending whatever, usually one of the first things to be cut is road construction. So a stimulus plan that supposes to give a state a blank check then say.. " here you go spend this on "shovel ready" projects, sort of assumes the state will actually do that. They might, eventually or then again , they might as with the case here as they love to do put those orange traffic cones up and leave them there for about 3 or 4 years and claim they are doing something.

Except they weren't given a blank check. The Governors were suppose to give a specific amount to road construction, specific % to schools, specific % to etc. Some of the governors didn't like that and tried to sidestep the rules to pay off the deficits in their states that would only be bigger next year.

I would know, my Governor (a Republican mind you) tried to take money away from the schools.

Cicilline seeks to block Carcieri's use of stimulus money - Projo 7 to 7 News Blog | Rhode Island news | The Providence Journal

Carcieri's $7.6 billion budget would send tens of millions of stimulus-related dollars to local schools. But in some cases, his spending plan simply cuts funding the state would have given school districts and replaces the cut with stimulus funds.

See the full picture now?

 

[uscitizen]

Charter schools and vouchers would fix everything. Maybe a tax cut as well.

 

[Navy1960]

Well Dogbert, the whole premise in my mind was flawed because generally when a state is doing badly for economic reasons, low tax base, poor spending whatever, usually one of the first things to be cut is road construction. So a stimulus plan that supposes to give a state a blank check then say.. " here you go spend this on "shovel ready" projects, sort of assumes the state will actually do that. They might, eventually or then again , they might as with the case here as they love to do put those orange traffic cones up and leave them there for about 3 or 4 years and claim they are doing something.

Except they weren't given a blank check. The Governors were suppose to give a specific amount to road construction, specific % to schools, specific % to etc. Some of the governors didn't like that and tried to sidestep the rules to pay off the deficits in their states that would only be bigger next year.

I would know, my Governor (a Republican mind you) tried to take money away from the schools.

Cicilline seeks to block Carcieri's use of stimulus money - Projo 7 to 7 News Blog | Rhode Island news | The Providence Journal

Carcieri's $7.6 billion budget would send tens of millions of stimulus-related dollars to local schools. But in some cases, his spending plan simply cuts funding the state would have given school districts and replaces the cut with stimulus funds.

See the full picture now?

The governor has said officials would be forced to make drastic cuts in public safety, education and social services if voters reject his budget-related ballot measures in the statewide special election. He also will propose raising as much as $1 billion by selling state properties, including San Quentin prison, according to documents obtained by The Chronicle.

But closing a deficit for the fiscal year beginning July 1 that ranges between $15.4 billion and $21.3 billion has become much more complicated because of Washington's requirement that states maintain a minimum level of spending and services in exchange for stimulus funds.

Services that face federal rules in California are education, health care and social services, which together represent well more than half of the state's $92 billion spending plan for the coming year.
If state cuts too deep it loses stimulus funds - SFGate

I'm aware that there are terms and conditions on those funds however money allocated to road construction for some states depending on how they budget goes into a a states "general fund" for that purpose and once there at least in my state they have removed money from that fund to other "general funds" in the state budget for operational purposes and I am sure it's not very much to assume that the same is true for this stimulus money. It still does not address the flaw in the logic in the first place with two basic programs one is the proposed healthcare bill, and two is job creation in the Stimulus bill.

 

[Gatekeeper]

That's it, deprive the schools of the ability to teach, worse, in some cases than they do now.I am referring to public schools for a start. Keep the masses uneducated and poor, yeah makes sense to me.

How about first starting with everyone of the states employees and school instructors taking a 15% pay cut, including of course the GOV himself, AND pay around the average of $700/mo for two people for health care, for those who are not state employees, plus of course the additional co-pays for meds and office visits. End what many states have upon retirement after walking out with 2 or $300,000 and paying $10,000, UP FRONT, for LIFETIME healthcare, no cost from that point on! Just as a 'good will' gesture.

Everyone of it's citizens get their pay stolen in bits and pieces over the years, but most state funded programs,employees etc seem to be in many cases immune. And when the states do make cuts it's usually something stupid, like cut funding to hospitals for losses treating the indigents and others.

This babble could go on forever.....the end..for now

 

[Xenophon]

NY is heavily overtaxed and deeply in debt, the gov has no choice here.

Unlike Barry, patterson can't just print more money.

 

[Modbert]

NY is heavily overtaxed and deeply in debt, the gov has no choice here.

Unlike Barry, patterson can't just print more money.

He could, just wouldn't be legal.

Could call them Patterson dollars.

 

[Gatekeeper]

NY is heavily overtaxed and deeply in debt, the gov has no choice here.

Unlike Barry, patterson can't just print more money.

He could, just wouldn't be legal.

Could call them Patterson dollars.

That fits with all the 'ObamaDollars' we have now. The DOW still rising, so printing your own money must work.............for someone.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Joel Klein led the Justice Department's attack on Microsoft for its alleged efforts to monopolize the software market. But Microsoft is a hotbed of competition compared to the organization Klein runs now. Klein is chancellor of New York City's public school system, a monopoly so heavily regulated that sometimes it's unable to fire even dangerous teachers.

The series of steps a principal must take to dismiss an instructor is Byzantine. "It's almost impossible," Klein complains.

The rules were well-intended. The union was worried that principals would play favorites, hiring friends and family members while firing good teachers. If public education were subject to the competition of the free market, those bureaucratic rules would be unnecessary, because parents would hold a bad principal accountable by sending their kids to a different school the next year. But government schools never go out of business, and parents' ability to change schools is sharply curtailed. So the education monopoly adopts paralyzing rules instead.

The regulations are so onerous that principals rarely even try to fire a teacher. Most just put the bad ones in pretend-work jobs, or sucker another school into taking them. (They call that the "dance of the lemons.") The city payrolls include hundreds of teachers who have been deemed incompetent, violent, or guilty of sexual misconduct. Since the schools are afraid to let them teach, they put them in so-called "rubber rooms" instead. There they read magazines, play cards, and chat, at a cost to New York taxpayers of $20 million a year.

Once, Klein reports, the school system discovered that a teacher was sending sexual e-mails to a 16-year-old student. "This was the most unbelievable case to me," he says, "because the e-mail was there, he admitted to it. It was so thoroughly offensive." Even with the teacher's confession, it took six years of expensive litigation before the school could fire him. He didn't teach during those six years, but he still got paid—more than $350,000 total.

What did it take to finally get rid of him? What does it take to get rid of any teacher whose offenses are so egregious that administrators are willing to tackle the red tape? Read on.

How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher - Reason Magazine

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive never really been a big believer that money fixes everything. People want to keep throwing money at the school system to make it better. but what it needs isnt more money. Maybe NY will start seeing some results now.

 

[Smartt33]

ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson proposed what would be the largest cut to school aid in more than two decades and nearly $1 billion in new or increased taxes and fees as he unveiled his budget on Tuesday, a plan that is sure to touch off fierce opposition in the Legislature.

Governor Paterson Seeks $1 Billion More in Taxes and Fees for New York - NYTimes.com


After giving this a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that from a fiscal standpoint what choice does the state have other than cut even more services such as police and fire. It does seem to add fuel to the argument that adding attional mandates to states in the form of healthcare will result in even more such proposals. What I also find interesting here is that the Govt. has spend literally millions in wasted projects, in the name of Stimulus, and it would seem to me that if you really wanted to stimuluate anything you would want to invest in young people i.e. schools and qualified teachers rather than saving turtles and marsh mice.

Look at what the government is doing to this nation. That is what cuts in education will promote. A dumbing down of America will seem like a good thing when we are so stupid that we don't know the water is beginning to boil. Like little frogs. Government wants Americans to be stupid!!!!!!!! That is one idiot of a governor.

 

[Navy1960]

ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson proposed what would be the largest cut to school aid in more than two decades and nearly $1 billion in new or increased taxes and fees as he unveiled his budget on Tuesday, a plan that is sure to touch off fierce opposition in the Legislature.

Governor Paterson Seeks $1 Billion More in Taxes and Fees for New York - NYTimes.com


After giving this a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that from a fiscal standpoint what choice does the state have other than cut even more services such as police and fire. It does seem to add fuel to the argument that adding attional mandates to states in the form of healthcare will result in even more such proposals. What I also find interesting here is that the Govt. has spend literally millions in wasted projects, in the name of Stimulus, and it would seem to me that if you really wanted to stimuluate anything you would want to invest in young people i.e. schools and qualified teachers rather than saving turtles and marsh mice.

Look at what the government is doing to this nation. That is what cuts in education will promote. A dumbing down of America will seem like a good thing when we are so stupid that we don't know the water is beginning to boil. Like little frogs. Government wants Americans to be stupid!!!!!!!! That is one idiot of a governor.

Smartt, when faced with the not having the ability to pay for services or meet it's payroll or to even provide services, some of these states have little choice but to cut the budget somewhere. While I would love to see local funding for schools increase and see a school as a much better Stimulus investment than a road, in terms of long terms jobs, and long term investement, without the funding to run them or a public willing to pay higher property taxes to pay for them then the states have little choice but to cut services.

 

[uscitizen]

Ive never really been a big believer that money fixes everything. People want to keep throwing money at the school system to make it better. but what it needs isnt more money. Maybe NY will start seeing some results now.

agreed we need to redo our education system. Seperate out the students by ability and drive. let the good ones progress as fast as they can, some will not need 12 years to prepare for college. Some will need the full 12 years.

 

[kyzr]

I will never criticize any government for living within its means. They need to figure out how to balance the budget. Giving tax breaks for moving factories overseas was a dumb idea, that reduced the tax base. Increasing energy costs, or like Obama said "energy costs necessarily need to skyrocket". Schools and families need to pay those "skyrocketing" costs. Government officials need to grow brains.

 

[Darkwind]

ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson proposed what would be the largest cut to school aid in more than two decades and nearly $1 billion in new or increased taxes and fees as he unveiled his budget on Tuesday, a plan that is sure to touch off fierce opposition in the Legislature.

Governor Paterson Seeks $1 Billion More in Taxes and Fees for New York - NYTimes.com


After giving this a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that from a fiscal standpoint what choice does the state have other than cut even more services such as police and fire. It does seem to add fuel to the argument that adding attional mandates to states in the form of healthcare will result in even more such proposals. What I also find interesting here is that the Govt. has spend literally millions in wasted projects, in the name of Stimulus, and it would seem to me that if you really wanted to stimuluate anything you would want to invest in young people i.e. schools and qualified teachers rather than saving turtles and marsh mice.

I don't understand how you can come to this conclusion.

Each and every time that a state government has to cut budgets, they always go for those items that they know will enrage the public. The school budget for the state is not even close to the single largest expenditure of NY. Why doesn't the Governor of NY cut all personnel in the state by 65%?

Why doesn't he cut payments to the employee pension fund?

Why doesn't he cut the budget of the parks and recreation, waterways, transportation authority or any one of the few dozen programs that NY finances?

They always go for schools, police and fire as a way to justify tax increases. Only this time, they know that NY is not going to accept anymore tax increases.