Nurses (and Teachers) are not "professionals"

[80zephyr]

Engineering and architecture are not professional careers?

 

[martybegan]

Obviously, if you make up your own definitions, nurses can be "professionals." But if words have definite meanings, not so much.

Has anyone here ever heard of a nurse being sued for malpractice? A teacher? Can you even imagine such a a thing? If a nurse administers the wrong medicine, that would be NEGLIGENCE. A nurse cannot be guilty of malpractice.

Licensure means nothing. My father in law worked heavy construction and had a license to work with explosives. Barely spoke English.

He was not a "professional."

I think the issue is compounded by calling things that are really certifications or certificates licenses.

 

[Unkotare]

Nursing No Longer Classified as a Professional Degree: What’s at Stake?

A recent change by the U.S. Department of Education excludes nursing from its list of “professional degrees.” Discover how this impacts nurses at every level.

www.nurse.com

The internet and Media are filled with nurses outraged that the Trump Administration has classified them as not "professionals." Something to do with financing grad school, I think.

The word "professional" is badly misused, usually harmlessly, but it is instructive to take a step back every once in a while and look at what a "profession" really is. Here are a few pointers:

Professionals require a college degree BEYOND the Bachelors level. Law Degree, Medical Degree, Dental degree...you get the idea. A field of endeavor that you can enter with nothing more than a Bachelors degree is not a "profession."

A profession requires a large body of knowledge not known, perhaps not even available, to the general public, without which knowledge you cannot function in the profession. You can read law books and case studies until your eyes wear out, but I wouldn't trust you to write me a will, or defend me in traffic court. Same for taking medical advice from a well-informed member of the general public. It would be foolish indeed.

A professional can "put up a shingle" and practice the profession serving the general public without supervision.

A professional is certified competent by a "professional association" based on formal education, passing of a brutal and comprehensive battery of tests, and usually some certification of good character. That professional certification can be withdrawn for demonstrated incompetence or acting in such a way that brings disrepute on the profession itself.

Last and I would almost say, most importantly, professionals are held to a higher standard than others. They must not only one competent, but they must keep themselves abreast of the latest developments in the profession throughout their careers. If they fail in that standard and a client is thereby harmed, they can be sued for "malpractice," which is a whole level beyond simple negligence.

So having said all that - I think the points are obvious to anyone taking the matter seriously - it is clear that there are lots of worthy and valuable fields of endeavor that exhibit "professionalism" (or they might), but are not true professions, to wit,

• nursing,
• teaching,
• engineering,
• accounting,
• architecture.

In a similar way, some small-p professions have created certification programs where by practitioners can set themselves apart and above their general peers with a "professional" certification. CPA's and PE's, come to mind, and I'm sure there are several others. Hell, I was a Certified Professional Contract Manager for many years, which required education, many years of relevant experience, and passing of a comprehensive test. (I'm also a retired member of the Pennsylvania Bar).

It is not an insult to be told that your field of endeavor is not a "profession." In the case of nurses, it's merely a statement of fact. Your contribution to society can be enormous - even greater than that of some physicians - but that doesn't make nursing a "profession."

Sorry.

You've tried this lie several times before.

 

[DGS49]

Some school districts require its teachers to acquire a master’s degree either before hiring or within a designated period of time after being hired and starting the teaching job.

Accordingly, I don’t believe it is fair or accurate to say that teachers aren’t professionals. Some are and many are in the process of obtaining that graduate degree to acquire the professional status.

Yes, Pennsylvania is among the states that require additional Grad credits for permanent certification, and some clever colleges have created. bullshit "Masters" programs for them to get their Masters with just a few more credits, and thus stick the taxpayers for a little more cash. But requiring teachers to get a generic Masters Degree is meaningless. EDUCATION is not an academic subject. It is like penmanship or reading comprehension.

There is no esoteric body of Education knowledge that one must master in order to be a teacher. Hell, few school districts even require teachers to major in their chosen subject. A modest number of relevant credits is sufficient, particularly in math and sciences.

Teachers are absolutely NOT "professionals" in any meaningful way. For another thing, professionals do not have labor unions, as American teachers do.

 

[DGS49]

You've tried this lie several times before.

Good rebuttal! You really got me with that one!

Care to provide a definition of "professional" that does not include Janitorial Engineer?

 

[Unkotare]

...

Professionals require a college degree BEYOND the Bachelors [sic] level. ...

Like teaching.

 

[Unkotare]

...

A profession requires a large body of knowledge not known, perhaps not even available, to the general public, without which knowledge you cannot function in the profession. ...

Like teaching.

 

[Unkotare]

...

A professional is certified competent by a "professional association" based on formal education, passing of a brutal and comprehensive battery of tests...

Like teaching.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Last and I would almost say, most importantly, professionals are held to a higher standard than others. ...

Like teaching.

 

[Unkotare]

... They must not only one competent, but they must keep themselves abreast of the latest developments in the profession throughout their careers. ...

Like teaching.

 

[sparky]

For another thing, professionals do not have labor unions, as American teachers do.

interesting metric DG

~S~

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Once we get this on settled, we can get on to the really important questions of the day such as "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

 

[Unkotare]

Good rebuttal! You really got me with that one!

Care to provide a definition of "professional" that does not include Janitorial Engineer?

What are you more intimidated by, teaching or sports?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Nurses are professionals.

Teachers who keep their politics out of the classroom are professionals.

 

[80zephyr]

Yes, Pennsylvania is among the states that require additional Grad credits for permanent certification, and some clever colleges have created. bullshit "Masters" programs for them to get their Masters with just a few more credits, and thus stick the taxpayers for a little more cash. But requiring teachers to get a generic Masters Degree is meaningless. EDUCATION is not an academic subject. It is like penmanship or reading comprehension.

There is no esoteric body of Education knowledge that one must master in order to be a teacher. Hell, few school districts even require teachers to major in their chosen subject. A modest number of relevant credits is sufficient, particularly in math and sciences.

Teachers are absolutely NOT "professionals" in any meaningful way. For another thing, professionals do not have labor unions, as American teachers do.

What is your definition of a professional? For instance, a plumber goes thru 5 years of apprenticeship and has a hell of a lot of schooling. A lot of them belong to a union. What are they?

 

[DGS49]

Teachers sued for malpractice!!!!!! That's a real hoot! A comprehensive test of knowledge in teaching??????? Where the ****? California does that and they have had to lower the bar to the 10th grade level to get Blacks and Hispanics to pass!

A large body of esoteric knowledge in "education"! A knee-slapper for sure. What, exactly is in this body of knowledge? How to grade papers? Take attendance?

It would truly be disturbing to learn that the human who goes by "Unko-something" around here is actually teaching children. Its lack of self awareness is stunning.

 

[Jarlaxle]

What is your definition of a professional? For instance, a plumber goes thru 5 years of apprenticeship and has a hell of a lot of schooling. A lot of them belong to a union. What are they?

Trade unions? A cartel.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yes, Pennsylvania is among the states that require additional Grad credits for permanent certification, and some clever colleges have created. bullshit "Masters" programs for them to get their Masters with just a few more credits, and thus stick the taxpayers for a little more cash. But requiring teachers to get a generic Masters Degree is meaningless. EDUCATION is not an academic subject. It is like penmanship or reading comprehension.

There is no esoteric body of Education knowledge that one must master in order to be a teacher. Hell, few school districts even require teachers to major in their chosen subject. A modest number of relevant credits is sufficient, particularly in math and sciences.

Teachers are absolutely NOT "professionals" in any meaningful way. For another thing, professionals do not have labor unions, as American teachers do.

professionals dont have labor unions?...professional athletes do.....
.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes, Pennsylvania is among the states that require additional Grad credits for permanent certification, and some clever colleges have created. bullshit "Masters" programs for them to get their Masters with just a few more credits, and thus stick the taxpayers for a little more cash. But requiring teachers to get a generic Masters Degree is meaningless. EDUCATION is not an academic subject. It is like penmanship or reading comprehension.

There is no esoteric body of Education knowledge that one must master in order to be a teacher. Hell, few school districts even require teachers to major in their chosen subject. A modest number of relevant credits is sufficient, particularly in math and sciences.

Teachers are absolutely NOT "professionals" in any meaningful way. For another thing, professionals do not have labor unions, as American teachers do.

The amount of ignorance contained in your posts is amazing.

 

[Unkotare]

...A comprehensive test of knowledge in teaching??????? ...

Yes.