Now we have a problem

[DKSuddeth]

Posted on Drudge is a developing story about the further abuse of Iraqi prisoners, including severe beatings, rapes of both women and young boys, and defiling corpses.

While I know that nobody is condoning these acts I'm sure that everybody can see the need for swift public punishment of all those involved, right?

Further, Considering that a small percentage of the forces is all thats involved with this surely you can see how this is devastating to our cause and could quite literally destroy it beyond repair.

We may have already lost the country due to a couple of units lack of moral fiber and complete antipathy to human nature. What a betrayal of our country.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It's still just the acts of a few. Liberals spreading the notion that this is commonplace is what will destroy our efforts in Iraq.

 

[Merlin1047]

Posted on Drudge is a developing story about the further abuse of Iraqi prisoners, including severe beatings, rapes of both women and young boys, and defiling corpses.

DK I'm sure you're well aware that Drudge tends to be a bit of a muckraker who publishes first and researches later. Drudge posted the fake picture of fonda and kerry. Drudge posted the story about kerry and an intern.

Let's hope that these photos turn out to have the same level of credibility as many other things Drudge has published.

If they turn out to be genuine, we might as well pick up our marbles and go home. I doubt that swift punishment of those responsible for such acts would make any difference to moslems and the only thing we would accomplish by remaining is to get more of our people killed.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to the pullout deadline so that we can leave this pesthole to the owners and let them murder each other for a change.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
It's still just the acts of a few. Liberals spreading the notion that this is commonplace is what will destroy our efforts in Iraq.

our efforts are already destroyed. nobody quite yet understands the differences between the guilt culture and the shame culture.

These are not just the acts of 6 or 10 either. To have this much activity require more than just a 'few'. Realistically, we are talking at least a whole unit that knew about it, probably half who participated and thats not including the private contractors. An estimation on my part would peg it at about 30 people who actually comitted the crimes. The rest are culpable as contributing accessories for keeping their mouths shut.

 

[Merlin1047]

Oh - just a side note.

Is it just me, or did it get really stupid, vulgar and obnoxious in here since the arrival of the arachnoid windbag?

And when are you guys going to pull the plug on that jackass?

 

[MtnBiker]

He is a windbag for sure, but has complied to the rules. No need to be rid of him yet.

 

[Merlin1047]

Who are you reffering to Merlin, SpiderTuba?

Bingo!

 

[dilloduck]

The liberals think they have their new whipping boy and can attack Bush by attacking Rumsfeld (who did excellant at the congressional hearings). I would like to know who is leading the public republican offensive. Someone needs to be out there to be willing to expose this liberal offensive for what it is and put it in context ! While the abuse is horrible and indefensible there are numerous approaches to get this issue sized down to its proportionate import. Where are the conservatives who are publicly respected enough to get the medias attention and do the "dirty" work that a candidate can't get away with. Is the media so powerful that they are beyond harsh criticism? Why will they feel the need to publish further pictures of abuse. Doesn't this just FURTHER EXACERBATE the embarrassment already incurred by Iraqi prisoner? The informed public can read of abuse and use their imaginations. Not showing pictures is not a cover up! It's giving Iraqis the same repect our press gave our soldiers in the Blackhawk Down incident. Isn't this just using the plight of Iraqis to sell papers and further the liberal "cause". I thought liberals were against pouring salt on the wounds of the oppressed. This fight can easily be won with a strong point man and it can be easily lost by being defensive and submissive due to OVERLY assuming the guilt of a few. STAY THE COURSE!

the duck

 

[krisy]

I hope this is not true,but if it is that's baaad news. I was a skeptic of the pounding the Pentagon was getting for the other stuff,because I really did not see it as torture. Rape should never be condoned,and I hope this didn't happen.
The initial stories with the naked pics that were out didn't bother me so much,in the fact that they hate our culture,and I don't know why we should respect theirs (those that were fighting us,not the good people of Iraq).
I am left wondering,if the people of Iraq that are on our side,care about those men that were "shamed".

Maybe if this is true,and I'm not condoning anything,our soldiers are just really full of anger over some of the stuff that has happened to our guys. They have been over there a long time and are probably just sick and tired and angry.I don't know,I think they should be rotating them more or something. I do believe however,that when stuff this bad happens to Americans,it spends waaaay less time on the news.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by dilloduck
The liberals think they have their new whipping boy and can attack Bush by attacking Rumsfeld (who did excellant at the congressional hearings). I would like to know who is leading the public republican offensive. Someone needs to be out there to be willing to expose this liberal offensive for what it is and put it in context ! While the abuse is horrible and indefensible there are numerous approaches to get this issue sized down to its proportionate import. Where are the conservatives who are publicly respected enough to get the medias attention and do the "dirty" work that a candidate can't get away with. Is the media so powerful that they are beyond harsh criticism? Why will they feel the need to publish further pictures of abuse. Doesn't this just FURTHER EXACERBATE the embarrassment already incurred by Iraqi prisoner? The informed public can read of abuse and use their imaginations. Not showing pictures is not a cover up! It's giving Iraqis the same repect our press gave our soldiers in the Blackhawk Down incident. Isn't this just using the plight of Iraqis to sell papers and further the liberal "cause". I thought liberals were against pouring salt on the wounds of the oppressed. This fight can easily be won with a strong point man and it can be easily lost by being defensive and submissive due to OVERLY assuming the guilt of a few. STAY THE COURSE!

the duck

another one who does not understand the difference between shame culture and guilt culture.

the pictures are irrelevant. the only body of people that these pictures affect are the west and the euro's. The east and middle east have already been affected by the initial abuse, humiliation, and shame and the pictures will not increase that.

 

[dilloduck]

Irrelevant?--I dont think the dems are going after the voters in the mid east, DK. The new pics are the tool (among others) the dems intend to use to influence the Americans who are willing to accept the responsiblity of the boneheads who did this. The media will be glad to assist and the reps apparently have ran out of pages in their damage control maunal. (cmon guys!)

the duck

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Irrelevant?--I dont think the dems are going after the voters in the mid east, DK. The new pics are the tool (among others) the dems intend to use to influence the Americans who are willing to accept the responsiblity of the boneheads who did this. The media will be glad to assist and the reps apparently have ran out of pages in their damage control maunal. (cmon guys!)

the duck

ah, I get it. you're going to play right along with all the smash and grab politics of 'damage control' instead of solutions for restoring the credibility of the nation. Granted, the dems are the same way as the reps in this issue so maybe those of us who are truly independent americans should be stepping up to bat.

 

[dilloduck]

I appreciate a Libertarian who jumps in instead of standing by and demeaning the "smash and grabbers". Where did you get the idea that there is a credibilty problem? The rest of the world already loves to hate America and the media is pushing the idea to Americans that we did a bad no-no but is our credibility any better or worse than its always been? Since when have we thought that our military was moral?

 

[cabbear2]

I can't believe this!
I am so ashamed to be an American this week. I believe that these soldiers where put up to these nasty acts my the high ranking military and by the so called President and his Boys! It does not matter what these people did to us, we have NO right to treat human being this away! These soldiers should be fired today and put in prison the rest of their lives. If any good comes out of this act, I hope the idiots that (Railroaded) voted Bush in will see that light in November. All I can say is God forgive us for these allful acts against humans.
Iam sure someone will come back and try to blame others, it's still badly wrong! We're wrong!

 

[St Pete]

It is quite clear to me that the problem is not in the Iraqi prisons but in the media. Take the media out of the war on both sides and everything will stabilize quickly.

Like a tree falling in the woods, who wants to die a martyr if nobody knows about it.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by cabbear2
I believe that these soldiers where put up to these nasty acts my the high ranking military and my the so called President and his Boys!

What evidence do you have to support your belief that the President put those soldiers up to their actions?

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by cabbear2
These soldiers should be put to death. I any good comes out of this act I hope the idiots that (Railroaded) voted Bush in will see that light in November.

After reading your rather "colorful" post, I was going to jump on you with both feet. Then I saw you were from Florida and I figured "what's the point".

Are you one of those chad hangers?

I'd urge you to come in out of the sun, but I see it's waaaaaay too late to worry about that.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
After reading your rather "colorful" post, I was going to jump on you with both feet. Then I saw you were from Florida and I figured "what's the point".

:teeth:

 

[Merlin1047]

originally posted by MtnBiker

What evidence do you have to support your belief that the President put those soldiers up to their actions?

To paraphrase a line from one of my favorite Bogie movies:

"Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence!"

 

[insein]

Originally posted by cabbear2
I can't believe this!
I am so ashamed to be an American this week. I believe that these soldiers where put up to these nasty acts my the high ranking military and by the so called President and his Boys! It does not matter what these people did to us, we have NO right to treat human being this away! These soldiers should be fired today and put in prison the rest of their lives. If any good comes out of this act, I hope the idiots that (Railroaded) voted Bush in will see that light in November. All I can say is God forgive us for these allful acts against humans.
Iam sure someone will come back and try to blame others, it's still badly wrong! We're wrong!

What is this attack of the morons this weekend?