Zone1 "Nothing creates itself"

[ding]

Seems obvious to me. If there really is a Hell, a place to spend eternity in, shall we say, an uncomfortable situation, and I could not be sure if I would end up there or not, I would not be looking forward to finding out. Of course nobody I've ever talked to has said they are going to hell but they often reassure me that most people do end up there. Seems to be a bit of a paradox.

Maybe it's obvious if you re a pessimist or a piece of human garbage. But I do love how you are quick to blame others for your choices. What could possibly go wrong with that?

 

[alang1216]

Maybe it's obvious if you re a pessimist or a piece of human garbage. But I do love how you are quick to blame others for your choices. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Get a grip! I'm a realist so I don't try to invent the world I would like to live in. Therefore, I accept the world as it is, human garbage and all.

I don't recall blaming anyone for my choices? I blame others for their choices if they are based on ignorance, wishful thinking, imaginary friends, or twisted logic.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Really? What created the thing that created the universe?

See how dumb that sounds?

Nothing did, in this scenario. Let's not go in circles. If something has always existed it does not need to have been created. You know, the same thing you guys say about your gods. So you insult yourself.

 

[Cougarbear]

Since I don't believe in an afterlife, I'm not concerned. Now if I did believe and thought there really was a Hell, then I'd be terrified of dying

That’s why you refuse to believe in the Holy Ghost testifying there is an afterlife. There is also paradise and eventually heaven. Why do you dwell on the negative?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That’s why you refuse to believe in the Holy Ghost testifying there is an afterlife. There is also paradise and eventually heaven. Why do you dwell on the negative?

Why do you? You guys only have one tool in the toolbox to proselytize: the magical threat.

 

[alang1216]

That’s why you refuse to believe in the Holy Ghost testifying there is an afterlife. There is also paradise and eventually heaven. Why do you dwell on the negative?

The Holy Ghost never spoke to me. Does everyone eventually end up in paradise and heaven? (I don't know the difference, a Muslim or Mormon thing?)

 

[ding]

Get a grip! I'm a realist so I don't try to invent the world I would like to live in. Therefore, I accept the world as it is, human garbage and all.

I don't recall blaming anyone for my choices? I blame others for their choices if they are based on ignorance, wishful thinking, imaginary friends, or twisted logic.

If you were a realist and believed in hell then you would also believe in heaven. But since you are a pessimist you only see hell.

Your choice to be pessimistic is based upon what other people have told you. So in effect you blame them for your pessimism.

 

[ding]

Nothing did, in this scenario. Let's not go in circles. If something has always existed it does not need to have been created. You know, the same thing you guys say about your gods. So you insult yourself.

The universe has not always existed. So something did bring the universe forth. In your endless loop of what came before that, what came before the thing that brought forth or caused the universe to pop into existence? It seems that you are trying to argue that what caused the universe to pop into existence has always existed which is exactly the position you disagreed with that started this exchange. Or did you forget your infinite series comment?

 

[Cougarbear]

Why do you? You guys only have one tool in the toolbox to proselytize: the magical threat.

It is like magic. Only, it’s not an illusion as those influenced by the Holy Ghost will testify. There is also the Light of Christ which is in all things. Some call it our conscience. When we are in tune, we know good from evil as the light shines brightly upon our countenance. When we cover it up then we choose evil and the darkness shows on our faces.

 

[alang1216]

If you were a realist and believed in hell then you would also believe in heaven.

Absolutely true but have I ever given you the idea I believe in either?

Your choice to be pessimistic is based upon what other people have told you. So in effect you blame them for your pessimism.

It is my choice to be realistic, in other words, an evidenced-based worldview. As such I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic. It is you who chose to be an optimist rather than a pessimist because that is the way you prefer to see the world. If that works for you, nothing wrong with it.

 

[Cougarbear]

The Holy Ghost never spoke to me. Does everyone eventually end up in paradise and heaven? (I don't know the difference, a Muslim or Mormon thing?)

He has. We have to be in tune with the Holy Ghost. Sometimes it's just a quick thought because of your righteousness that enters in with instructions. A family in our Ward was driving up a mountain road with two lanes when the father who was driving with his wife and 3 children got a quick instruction to his mind to pull over as far as he could. A car behind him that was tailgating him continued on and immediately after passing them, another car from the opposite direction coming down the mountain was on the wrong side of the road and smashed into that other car killing all in both cars. Why did he all of a sudden have that thought and urge to pull over? He was a very spiritual man and in tune with the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

After this life, we go to spirit prison that has two divisions, Paradise and Hell. Both resting places will receive further instruction of the true gospel from missionaries sent by Jesus. Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison. While he may have, he set up the missionary organization to carry on this work. 1Peter 3:19-20 and 1Peter 4:5-6. If one in Hell truly accepts the gospel in spirit prison, they will be moved to Paradise to await the judgment and resurrection. After the resurrection, we are assigned what we sowed. There are 3 types of resurrected bodies in Heaven. Celestial (the Sun), Terrestrial (the Moon) and Telestial (the Stars) One brighter in glory than the other. 1Cor. 15:39-42

As far as what the requirements are to obtain the highest degree of glory, the Celestial Glory, the Lord shall mediate with the Father in our behalf for that is what the atonement is all about. One ordinance for sure is required. That is the ordinance of baptism by one who has authority to baptize. But, what about those who are dead? Paul was strongly opposed to use false analogies or teachings to teach the truth. So, in 1Cor. 15:29, the people were righteously instructed to baptize for those who have died. They do this vicariously through proxy. This way, generations of ancestors could be baptized if families kept genealogical records as we in our Church do today in our Temples. In one of our book of scriptures, The Doctrine and Covenants" for instruction today in these the latter days, Section 76 covers in more detail what it takes to receive each of the 3 degrees of glory. We are also taught that there is more than one level in the Celestial Kingdom. To receive the highest in that kingdom, one must be sealed to a person of the opposite birth sex for all eternity.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 76 also speaks of those who will not receive any of the 3 degrees of glory. That is in Perdition with the Son of Perdition, Lucifer (Satan). These are those who would deny the Holy Ghost in which there is not forgiveness. These are they when are shown the Father and Son and in front of the Godhead deny the Godhead and what the Holy Ghost is showing them. Just like Lucifer did in the pre-earth life in Heaven before the foundations of the earth and universe were laid. When he rejected Father in Heaven's plan of salvation by rejecting the Father and Son. Elohim and Jehovah (Jesus Christ) Because you aren't paying attention and listening to the Holy Ghost right now, you are NOT denying the Holy Ghost.

 

[alang1216]

He has. We have to be in tune with the Holy Ghost. Sometimes it's just a quick thought because of your righteousness that enters in with instructions. A family in our Ward was driving up a mountain road with two lanes when the father who was driving with his wife and 3 children got a quick instruction to his mind to pull over as far as he could. A car behind him that was tailgating him continued on and immediately after passing them, another car from the opposite direction coming down the mountain was on the wrong side of the road and smashed into that other car killing all in both cars. Why did he all of a sudden have that thought and urge to pull over? He was a very spiritual man and in tune with the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Would he have gotten that message if he were Muslim or Hindu?

After this life, we go to spirit prison that has two divisions, Paradise and Hell. Both resting places will receive further instruction of the true gospel from missionaries sent by Jesus. Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison. While he may have, he set up the missionary organization to carry on this work. 1Peter 3:19-20 and 1Peter 4:5-6. If one in Hell truly accepts the gospel in spirit prison, they will be moved to Paradise to await the judgment and resurrection. After the resurrection, we are assigned what we sowed. There are 3 types of resurrected bodies in Heaven. Celestial (the Sun), Terrestrial (the Moon) and Telestial (the Stars) One brighter in glory than the other. 1Cor. 15:39-42

As far as what the requirements are to obtain the highest degree of glory, the Celestial Glory, the Lord shall mediate with the Father in our behalf for that is what the atonement is all about. One ordinance for sure is required. That is the ordinance of baptism by one who has authority to baptize. But, what about those who are dead? Paul was strongly opposed to use false analogies or teachings to teach the truth. So, in 1Cor. 15:29, the people were righteously instructed to baptize for those who have died. They do this vicariously through proxy. This way, generations of ancestors could be baptized if families kept genealogical records as we in our Church do today in our Temples. In one of our book of scriptures, The Doctrine and Covenants" for instruction today in these the latter days, Section 76 covers in more detail what it takes to receive each of the 3 degrees of glory. We are also taught that there is more than one level in the Celestial Kingdom. To receive the highest in that kingdom, one must be sealed to a person of the opposite birth sex for all eternity.

Quite an intricate theology, thanks for sharing. BTW, I assume someone can be 'sealed' to multiple people.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 76 also speaks of those who will not receive any of the 3 degrees of glory. That is in Perdition with the Son of Perdition, Lucifer (Satan). These are those who would deny the Holy Ghost in which there is not forgiveness. These are they when are shown the Father and Son and in front of the Godhead deny the Godhead and what the Holy Ghost is showing them. Just like Lucifer did in the pre-earth life in Heaven before the foundations of the earth and universe were laid. When he rejected Father in Heaven's plan of salvation by rejecting the Father and Son. Elohim and Jehovah (Jesus Christ) Because you aren't paying attention and listening to the Holy Ghost right now, you are NOT denying the Holy Ghost.

Correct, I'm not paying attention but it seems I'll get another chance in the next life. Sweet.

 

[ding]

Absolutely true but have I ever given you the idea I believe in either?

None at all. It's just that your last post posited it and I couldn't resist destroying your logic to show your pessimism and external locus of control. The reality is that you believe what you do not because you have reasons to believe what you believe but because you have reasons to not believe something else. Effectively your beliefs are based upon negation.

 

[alang1216]

None at all. It's just that your last post posited it and I couldn't resist destroying your logic to show your pessimism and external locus of control. The reality is that you believe what you do not because you have reasons to believe what you believe but because you have reasons to not believe something else.

You seem to make less and less sense? You at happy hour too?

I believe what I do based on my logic, experience, education, and like everyone (except you as you claim), my biases

 

[ding]

You seem to make less and less sense? You at happy hour too?

I believe what I do based on my logic, experience, education, and like everyone (except you as you claim), my biases

You argued - as a realist - that if you believed in hell, you would fear death. That doesn't make you a realist, dummy, that makes you a pessimist. Why? Because if you believed in hell you would also believe in heaven. But because you were only concerned with the horrors of hell, that means you totally dismissed the reward of heaven. A realist would factor in both. A pessimist would only factor in hell and an optimist would only factor in heaven. So it's not my logic that's the problem. It's your inability to comprehend logic that is the problem.

 

[ding]

I believe what I do based on my logic, experience, education, and like everyone (except you as you claim), my biases

That's not the same thing as stating the reasons why you believe as you do. And I never claimed I wasn't ever biased about anything, just that I am less biased than you. I look at each side in its most favorable light. Something I have never seen you do.

 

[alang1216]

You argued - as a realist - that if you believed in hell, you would fear death.

As a realist who doesn't believe in either I'm neither an optimist nor a pessimist. Believers are gambling with their immortal soul, not me.

That doesn't make you a realist, dummy, that makes you a pessimist. Why? Because if you believed in hell you would also believe in heaven. Koji But because you were only concerned with the horrors of hell, that means you totally dismissed the reward of heaven. A realist would factor in both. A pessimist would only factor in hell and an optimist would only factor in heaven. So it's not my logic that's the problem. It's your inability to comprehend logic that is the problem.

Stay away from Las Vegas, your wishful thinking clouds your judgement.

 

[alang1216]

That's not the same thing as stating the reasons why you believe as you do.

I'm sure I've gone over that in excruciating detail but if you have a specific question, have a time it.

And I never claimed I wasn't ever biased about anything, just that I am less biased than you. I look at each side in its most favorable light. Something I have never seen you do.

So you look at each side in it's most favorable light, something i don't do, and then have the gall to say you're the less biased.

 

[ding]

As a realist who doesn't believe in either I'm neither an optimist nor a pessimist. Believers are gambling with their immortal soul, not me.

I have no doubt you see yourself in the best possible light.

And since you don't believe in either heaven or hell it's hard for me to believe you believe people of faith are gambling with their immortal souls. But your illogical arguments are entertaining.

 

[ding]

Stay away from Las Vegas, your wishful thinking clouds your judgement.

Anyone who understands odds should stay away from Vegas unless they see their losses as entertainment, but keep your illogical arguments coming. So my judgement is just fine. With objectivity comes wisdom and wisdom leads to good and fair judgments.

Proverbs 14:6
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.