- Oct 12, 2009
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- #41
Excuse me?
I think it's great that Laubscher may have helped avert yet another unlawful shooting. So kudos to him for that. Nonetheless, he was out of line.
So now we have gun store owners, not clinical psychologists, determining the mental stability/status of potential customers. I don't mind requiring that would-be buyers of guns be subject to some sort of evaluation to establish that they are at least "sane" when they buy a firearm. I mind very much someone who's not qualified to make such an assessment making it and acting upon their non-professional opinion about such things.Zhan visited The Gun Store [and] shop owner John Laubscher told Syracuse.com. [that] Zhan wanted an AR-15. Laubscher described Zhan as “on the edge” and said his lack of understanding about guns made him stand out. As a result of his concerns, Laubscher refused to sell Zhan a gun.
Doing that is tantamount to vigilante psychoanalysis, which, as far as I'm concerned, is no more consionable than is vigilante law enforcement. Laubscher was right to report his observations to the police. No question on that. He "saw something" and so he "said something." That is the right thing to do.
Unilaterally concluding on another's mental state -- Laubscher used the clearly unspecific phrase "on the edge" to describe Zhan's mental state at the time -- absent training to do so and absent express is beyond the scope of what non-clinicians have any right to do.
“When we explained to him the limitations on AR’s that you can get in New York, he jumped right from that to a shotgun, and then his interest was in the highest capacity shotgun that we had." Zhan had a hunting license [and] expressed his lack of knowledge about the [AR-15] gun [he initially inquired about]. He told the shop owner he would take a gun safety course at Syracuse University to learn how to use the weapon.
“When was the last time you heard of a tactical shotgun class at SU?”
First:
I really don't know what SU teaches. I know a state university near me -- University of Maryland -- does (and has for some time) collaborate with the 4-H to teach shooting sports/skills.Second:
Indeed, the 4-H has similar partnerships with several universities, though I don't know how many overall or whether Syracuse is among them.
- Our programs are valuable for helping young people develop self-confidence, personal discipline, responsibility, teamwork, self-esteem and sportsmanship. The discipline and self-control required for responsible firearms use carries over into many other aspects of life.
- Nearly two-thirds of the homes in the U.S. have firearms. Exposure to safety and responsible handling is vital to preventing accidents at home, at neighbors, or at a friend's home.
Third:
- Since when did expert knowledge about an item become a requirement for purchasing it?
- How much does one need to know about a firearm, firearm operation, or firearm safety to know not to point/aim it at people and to maintain one's firearms such that unauthorized persons cannot gain access to it?
While I am thrilled that Zhan may have been, it seems (based on what's reported in the article the OP references), prevented from carrying out an unlawful shooting, I'm not thrilled about the manner in which that possible outcome was achieved.Aside:
- Yes, I would welcome greater controls on access to guns. To obtain that, however, extant jurisprudence must be amended and revised. Until that happens, the current laws and jurist interpretations of them are what they are and must be adhered to, at least they must be by individuals not uniquely positioned and formally accorded limited discretion to not do so.
- It really doesn't matter to me who "saw something and said something." Doing that is everyone's responsibility, regardless of their position on gun rights/control.
And people have the gall to talk about "snowflakes." Sheesh. One doesn't deserve an "atta boy" for doing what one is supposed to do in the first place; behavior of that nature when exhibited by adults isn't even noteworthy. Accolades, notoriety, etc. are rightly awarded for exceeding expectations, not merely meeting them.
Whether Laubscher is prescient or just lucky is not clear, but either way, he isn't particularly rational. To wit:
Well, duh! Of course, unlawful shootings can happen "right there." There guns there, there are people there, and even if there weren't people there, people have the means to with guns arrive there; consequently, "this" can happen there. That unlawful gun use can happen "right there" or anywhere is the immutable fact that gun control advocates have discerned and that gun rights advocates consistently (1) discount, (2) reject all material solution proposals to reduce the risk that it can happen anywhere, and (3) offer no solution ideas to attenuate the risk that it can happen anywhere.I have a very uneasy feeling that this could have happen in our hometown, here in Syracuse. It could happen right anywhere, but the fact that it could happen right here is scary.
-- John Laubscher, Owner, The Gun Store, Nelson, NY
Was the university's action taken independently of Laubscher's reports to the cops? I don't know, and the article is not clear on that point. It merely states that Syracuse U. acted contemporaneously. For all I know, Zhan may have done something (or not done something) that was both unrelated to his gun purchase attempts and that gave Syracuse U. administrators cause to expel him.Syracuse University acted in the meantime to withdraw Zhan’s status as a student
You are excused.
The gun store owner made a judgement call, it is perfectly legal. He has no requirement to sell a weapon to anyone.
I doubt any university teaches TACTICAL shotgun use to the public.
What is irrational about finding inconsistencies in a person's story about gun knowledge?
The article indicates police had a search warrant, that would have been shown to the apartment complex manager. A lot of those are university owned or operated. Police probably also contacted the school for information on his behavior at school, much as they did with his friends. Are you suggesting it is my fault the article didn't answer all your questions.