Not All Conservatives Thrilled About Romney VP Pick

[NYcarbineer]

All his "plan" does is delay the inevitable...bankruptcy of medicare.

Look...you may not agree with Ryans plan....but he was bold enough to present it...he did not worry about what was politically expedient. He knows there is an issue and he put his career on the line with a viable solution. Is it a solution that will be economically BEST for the American people as it pertains to senior caqre down the road? No. Of course not. There can NOT be a plan like that for the economically BEST plan for individuals is what put thew system on the road of disaster.

So he propsed a plan that will allow Americans to prepare....todays seniors...and all who will become seniors in the next ten years do not need to worry. Ryan is well aware that they have no time to prepare...so nothing will change for them.

Those that are 45-54 are the ones that will hurt the most...for they have little time to prepare.....but someone is going to have to tkae a hit.

Now...all that being said....we all know Obamas desire.,..he wants a single payer system for all through life.....I applaud the idea....but I dont necessarily think it is a good one....but those that say they want it are bold and deserve an applause.

But Obama is showing he is more wrapped up in his political career than he is in solving problems. He should go out there and say "my plan is a single payer system from the day you are born to the day you die." But he knows he will lose many independents with that...

So criticize ryans plan all you want....but at least he had the balls to present one.

Put some thought into this. Who is better for our country right now..one with the balls to present a plan...or one with no balls at all?

What's bold about it?

It throws granny down a flight of stairs. There's nothing bold about that.

What would be bold would be if Ryan took a stand against defense spending. He doesn't. He wants to increase it.

And if you think this sort of spending is good for that nation, go with Romney/Ryan.

I think our taxes should go into building infrastructure, research, caring for our citizens and sane defense. I'll go with Obama/Biden.

What part of "those 55 and older will not be affected" did ewe not understand asswipe?

What part of eventually everyone currently over 55 will be DEAD, don't you understand?

 

[Jarhead]

What's bold about it?

It throws granny down a flight of stairs. There's nothing bold about that.

What would be bold would be if Ryan took a stand against defense spending. He doesn't. He wants to increase it.

And if you think this sort of spending is good for that nation, go with Romney/Ryan.

I think our taxes should go into building infrastructure, research, caring for our citizens and sane defense. I'll go with Obama/Biden.

What part of "those 55 and older will not be affected" did ewe not understand asswipe?

what part of all those under 55 that you don't understand willow? All those people under 55 when they are 65 or 70 years old, being thrown under the bus? I'm sorry but you are just too too too selfish to understand that....

The estimate is nearly $6000 a year more out of pocket per person expense for those people in added costs with less health care coverage....

I know, I know....YOU already GOT yours granny, and that's ALL that matters....

That 6000 (actually estimated to be 6500) is not for less care....it is for required care with a private medical professional who offers better bed side manner than medicare professionals........and that is IF the senior opts to go with a private plan.

If they opt to stay with mediacre, it will cost them less.....and yes...it is still an added burden to the senior non the less...but when you have 30 years to plan on it, you do what you need to do.

No one is saying it is BEST economically for seniors.....but it is a viable plan and deserves a debate....AN HONEST ONE.

 

[Jarhead]

Medicare has always been headed for bankruptcy ever since it was begun. That's why the program is modified at regular intervals to reset the bankruptcy date further into the future.
Social Security was a year away from insolvency in 1983. It wasn't ended; it was fixed.

When these programs need to be adjusted for solvency's sake, you adjust them. You don't kill them...

...unless of course you're an ideologically opposed to programs like Medicare and SS in the first place.

And if you were paying attention you would be well aware that Ryans plan does not kill medicare. It adjusts it so that it can be self sustaining and not be on the verge of bankruptcy every 10 years.

Will it cost each individual more money? Sure. Thats a no brainer. But it is still a an efficient plan that can prove to be in the best interest of America.

Turning Medicare into a voucher program ends Medicare as we know it. It would be as if all the public schools were shut down and everyone with kids was given a voucher to pay towards private school.

Would that end public school? Yes. Will a voucher plan end Medicare? Yes.

interesting analogy.....but lets make it a real analogy...

It would be like every child getting a voucher for school....they can apply it to priovate school ands have to add 6500 to their annual tuition...or they can apply it to public school with less out of pocket expense.

And no...that is not eliminating the public school system.....it is reforming it.

 

[Liability]

What's bold about it?

It throws granny down a flight of stairs. There's nothing bold about that.

What would be bold would be if Ryan took a stand against defense spending. He doesn't. He wants to increase it.

And if you think this sort of spending is good for that nation, go with Romney/Ryan.

I think our taxes should go into building infrastructure, research, caring for our citizens and sane defense. I'll go with Obama/Biden.

What part of "those 55 and older will not be affected" did ewe not understand asswipe?

What part of eventually everyone currently over 55 will be DEAD, don't you understand?

And the fucking Medicare plan -- which is far too massively expensive and unsustainable -- must nevertheless live on for that day in the distant future when current youngsters will be over 55 and saddled with the incredibly high costs of that moronic plan? I bet you everyone of them will curse assholes like you who failed to do anything to fix it.

Are you as stupid as your posts suggest or are you just whacked out on Heroin?

 

[Some Guy]

If the liberal Democrats were serious about this or any problem, then instead of engaging in the typical knee-jerk reaction of attacking Ryan and his budget plans (especially the Medicare portions), they MIGHT try to sit down with him and others who supported the Ryan budget to FINE TUNE it.

Agreed. I give props to Ryan for proposing a bold plan that doesn't do him a ton of favors politically. It might be crazy in some respects but it forces the issue to be addressed and lays a foundation with which to build on.

If the republicans grab the presidency and the majority in the senate (while presumably keeping the majority in the house), I hope they would show some willingness to work on legislation like this in concert with democrats rather than the "take it or leave" it approach the democrats took the last few years.

 

[uscitizen]

By Ian Millhiser

In April of 2011, after Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan had been House Budget Chair for only a few months, he convinced nearly the entire House GOP caucus to vote for a laissez-faire budget resolution that would slash education, raise taxes on the middle class, and destroy Medicaid’s promise to provide health care to the most vulnerable Americans. Like his running mate Mitt Romney’s tax plan, the Ryan Plan also combined austerity for the poor and the middle class with large tax cuts for the rich.

The Ryan Plan that passed the House in 2011 is most famous, however, for its multiple step plan to phase out Medicare. Let us say that again so we are perfectly clear about what the Ryan Plan does to Medicare. It does not just “end Medicare as we know it” and it certainly does not “reform” Medicare.” The Ryan Plan simply ends Medicare, although it admittedly takes some time for it to achieve this goal.

More w/Chart (worth reading): Paul Ryan's Original Medicare Plan Ends Medicare, Period | ThinkProgress

The original plan is off the table.

Hmm and WHY is the origional plan off the table?
Think about it folks.

 

[Katzndogz]

The article is from Think Progress. It's as true as the next Disney fairy tale.

 

[Lovebears65]

By Jennifer Bendery

WASHINGTON -- He's been in Congress for nearly 13 years, but Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has only seen two of his bills pass into law during that time.

Ryan, who Mitt Romney has tapped as his running mate, passed a bill into law in July 2000 that renames a post office in his district. Thanks to Ryan, the post office on 1818 Milton Ave. in Janesville, Wis., is now known as "Les Aspin Post Office Building."

The other time Ryan saw one of his bills become law was in December 2008, with legislation to change the way arrows (as in bows and arrows) are hit with an excise tax. Specifically, his bill amended the Internal Revenue Code to impose a 39-cent tax per arrow shaft, instead of a 12.4 percent tax on the sales price. The bill also "includes points suitable for use with arrows in the 11 percent excise tax on arrow parts and accessories."

Kevin Seifert, Ryan's congressional spokesman, did not respond to a request for comment.

Paul Ryan Only Passed 2 Bills Into Law In More Than A Decade

only 2 laws where passed under OBAMA as well dumbass and how many times did obama just say present when he was senator
List of bills sponsored by Barack Obama in the United States Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mac1958]

And the scare tactics used by Republicans aren't? Death Panels? Government takeover? Puhleese.

No, Ryan's plan won't "end" Medicare...It will just end Medicare as we know it.

Agreed, the Republicans are lying too. They're half the problem. No argument there.

We need to end Medicare as we know it. I think we all know that. The question is how. Medicare makes the Social Security problem look like a trip to the park.

I answered your question.

.

No we don't. We can fix Medicare without decimating it for future generations.

Make Medicare the public option most Americans wanted.

Yes, that's actually part of what I would do. That would provide a preventive/diagnostic foundation for all that would save us huge money. HUGE money.

But I was addressing Ryan's plan. It's not nearly as draconian as it's been made out to be, it does not decimate Medicare, and that's what bothers me here, the dishonesty.

.

 

[Sallow]

And if you were paying attention you would be well aware that Ryans plan does not kill medicare. It adjusts it so that it can be self sustaining and not be on the verge of bankruptcy every 10 years.

Will it cost each individual more money? Sure. Thats a no brainer. But it is still a an efficient plan that can prove to be in the best interest of America.

Turning Medicare into a voucher program ends Medicare as we know it. It would be as if all the public schools were shut down and everyone with kids was given a voucher to pay towards private school.

Would that end public school? Yes. Will a voucher plan end Medicare? Yes.

interesting analogy.....but lets make it a real analogy...

It would be like every child getting a voucher for school....they can apply it to priovate school ands have to add 6500 to their annual tuition...or they can apply it to public school with less out of pocket expense.

And no...that is not eliminating the public school system.....it is reforming it.

What?



You think there would be a voucher and a public school?

Oh man.

Really?

Medicare is not a voucher program. Once it become a voucher program..there is no more medicare.

A better "analogy" is that the public schools are shuddered..and you get your voucher to apply for the private schools.

And if those private schools don't want you..tough shit.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What part of "those 55 and older will not be affected" did ewe not understand asswipe?

What part of eventually everyone currently over 55 will be DEAD, don't you understand?

And the fucking Medicare plan -- which is far too massively expensive and unsustainable -- must nevertheless live on for that day in the distant future when current youngsters will be over 55 and saddled with the incredibly high costs of that moronic plan? I bet you everyone of them will curse assholes like you who failed to do anything to fix it.

Are you as stupid as your posts suggest or are you just whacked out on Heroin?

In 1983, Social Security was one year away from insolvency; it was in far worse shape than Medicare is today. Every argument for the necessity of ending SS that you people are making for ending Medicare could have been then.

But it wasn't ended. Changes were made within the fundamental framework and composition of Social Security and its viability was secured for decades.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And if you were paying attention you would be well aware that Ryans plan does not kill medicare. It adjusts it so that it can be self sustaining and not be on the verge of bankruptcy every 10 years.

Will it cost each individual more money? Sure. Thats a no brainer. But it is still a an efficient plan that can prove to be in the best interest of America.

Turning Medicare into a voucher program ends Medicare as we know it. It would be as if all the public schools were shut down and everyone with kids was given a voucher to pay towards private school.

Would that end public school? Yes. Will a voucher plan end Medicare? Yes.

interesting analogy.....but lets make it a real analogy...

It would be like every child getting a voucher for school....they can apply it to priovate school ands have to add 6500 to their annual tuition...or they can apply it to public school with less out of pocket expense.

And no...that is not eliminating the public school system.....it is reforming it.

The original Ryan plan did not make the vouchers optional. The original plan phased out traditional Medicare altogether; what do you think the 55 year old cut off date was all about?

 

[Jarhead]

Turning Medicare into a voucher program ends Medicare as we know it. It would be as if all the public schools were shut down and everyone with kids was given a voucher to pay towards private school.

Would that end public school? Yes. Will a voucher plan end Medicare? Yes.

interesting analogy.....but lets make it a real analogy...

It would be like every child getting a voucher for school....they can apply it to priovate school ands have to add 6500 to their annual tuition...or they can apply it to public school with less out of pocket expense.

And no...that is not eliminating the public school system.....it is reforming it.

The original Ryan plan did not make the vouchers optional. The original plan phased out traditional Medicare altogether; what do you think the 55 year old cut off date was all about?

you are incorrect.

The 55 cut off date was to allow people to prepare and to NOT force people into a plan without proper time to prepare.

Ryans plan will cost people more...whether they stayed in medicare or went private...that was a given...so time was required for people to prepare.

Look...was his plan perfect? No way. But it was an idea that deserved a debate to fine tune it. Instead, the left criticized it and had it tossed away when it hit the senate....and they criticized it with spin and lies.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most seniors I've ever talked to on the subject, starting with my mother, like Medicare.

What do they complain about though, if anything? The high cost of the supplemental PRIVATE insurance they have to buy to cover what Medicare doesn't.

The Ryan plan would essentially make the supplemental part the whole part. Get rid of the good, replace it with more of the bad.

 

[uscitizen]

Turning Medicare into a voucher program ends Medicare as we know it. It would be as if all the public schools were shut down and everyone with kids was given a voucher to pay towards private school.

Would that end public school? Yes. Will a voucher plan end Medicare? Yes.

interesting analogy.....but lets make it a real analogy...

It would be like every child getting a voucher for school....they can apply it to priovate school ands have to add 6500 to their annual tuition...or they can apply it to public school with less out of pocket expense.

And no...that is not eliminating the public school system.....it is reforming it.

The original Ryan plan did not make the vouchers optional. The original plan phased out traditional Medicare altogether; what do you think the 55 year old cut off date was all about?

but even though a Cadallac changed into a Neon we can still argue that it is a Cadallac?

 

[8537]

1) turning medicare into a program where you can choose a private insurer with a subsidy or continue your current plan will kill Medicare through adverse selection.

2) there's a reason we needed a public program for insuring people 65 and older, those with disabilities and those with end stage renal disease: It's because no private sector actuarial of sound mind would ever recommend an insurance pool of those folks.

 

[Jarhead]

Most seniors I've ever talked to on the subject, starting with my mother, like Medicare.

What do they complain about though, if anything? The high cost of the supplemental PRIVATE insurance they have to buy to cover what Medicare doesn't.

The Ryan plan would essentially make the supplemental part the whole part. Get rid of the good, replace it with more of the bad.

I agree...seniors are not complaining about medicare.

Quality of care is notht he issue....the issue is that it is not staying solvent...so something needs to be done.

Quick frixes are not the answer.....reform is the answer.

 

[Jarhead]

1) turning medicare into a program where you can choose a private insurer with a subsidy or continue your current plan will kill Medicare through adverse selection.

So you are saying that most seniors willl opt for the more expensive "private" plan?

2) there's a reason we needed a public program for insuring people 65 and older, those with disabilities and those with end stage renal disease: It's because no private sector actuarial of sound mind would ever recommend an insurance pool of those folks.

I disagree...I believe the voucher system will do exactly what it should do....it will get many of those that can afford a better plan OFF of medicare....making it a less "crowded" environment...offering better care for the majority who can not affrod the better private plans...

Like I said...is it perfect?

No way.

Did we have a real hoinmest debate about it so we can find a way to make something work?

Nope. It was simply villified as "pushing granny over a cliff" and tossed in the trash.

Very much how the right isd vilifying Obamas welkfare plan.

So tell me...how are our elected officials doing for us?

 

[8537]

1) turning medicare into a program where you can choose a private insurer with a subsidy or continue your current plan will kill Medicare through adverse selection.

So you are saying that most seniors willl opt for the more expensive "private" plan?

2) there's a reason we needed a public program for insuring people 65 and older, those with disabilities and those with end stage renal disease: It's because no private sector actuarial of sound mind would ever recommend an insurance pool of those folks.

I disagree...I believe the voucher system will do exactly what it should do....it will get many of those that can afford a better plan OFF of medicare....making it a less "crowded" environment...offering better care for the majority who can not affrod the better private plans.

It will leave those most in need of care in Medicare, and move the healthiest to private plans. Adverse selection.

In the process, it will bankrupt Medicare, forcing everyone on to a private plan - Ryan is smart enough to know this.

Like I said...is it perfect?

No way.

Did we have a real hoinmest debate about it so we can find a way to make something work?

Nope. It was simply villified as "pushing granny over a cliff" and tossed in the trash.

Very much how the right isd vilifying Obamas welkfare plan.

So tell me...how are our elected officials doing for us?

Why should the debate about Medicare reform use a far-right privatization plan as its starting point? Why should the Ryan plan be allowed to lead the debate?

Let's start from where we currently stand and reform from there.

 

[Jarhead]

1) turning medicare into a program where you can choose a private insurer with a subsidy or continue your current plan will kill Medicare through adverse selection.

So you are saying that most seniors willl opt for the more expensive "private" plan?

2) there's a reason we needed a public program for insuring people 65 and older, those with disabilities and those with end stage renal disease: It's because no private sector actuarial of sound mind would ever recommend an insurance pool of those folks.

I disagree...I believe the voucher system will do exactly what it should do....it will get many of those that can afford a better plan OFF of medicare....making it a less "crowded" environment...offering better care for the majority who can not affrod the better private plans.

It will leave those most in need of care in Medicare, and move the healthiest to private plans. Adverse selection.

Why do you say that? Why would the healthiest move to private? The premium of a senior is the premium of a senior. They all have health issues and the premius will be high to compensate. It will move the WEALTHIEST out of the system...not the healthiest.

In the process, it will bankrupt Medicare, forcing everyone on to a private plan - Ryan is smart enough to know this.

Why would it bankrupt medicare? I see it as a way to curb the expenses of medicare.

Like I said...is it perfect?

No way.

Did we have a real hoinmest debate about it so we can find a way to make something work?

Nope. It was simply villified as "pushing granny over a cliff" and tossed in the trash.

Very much how the right isd vilifying Obamas welkfare plan.

So tell me...how are our elected officials doing for us?

Why should the debate about Medicare reform use a far-right privatization plan as its starting point? Why should the Ryan plan be allowed to lead the debate?

Why do you refer to it as a far right privatization? I see it as avoiding a far left idea of a single payer system. A debate is what takes a right leaningt plan and makes it a more moderate plan.

Let's start from where we currently stand and reform from there.

We have been doing that for years.....and sadly, we always have the "bankruptcy thing" hanging over us

My responses in red.