Northern nations warming faster than global average

[Toddsterpatriot]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Dude, you are quoting the article that I posted written by a scientist. I'm not the one that made the claims, I just posted what the scientists had to say about it.

He's working an a PhD or something. And he can build an energy destroying tube.
Never dispute his physics.

 

[justoffal]

Canada is warming at twice the global rate, report says - CNN
and
Canada’s Changing Climate Report

• The observed warming of Canadian temperatures are due to "human influence."
• There has been more rain than snowfall in Canada since 1948, a trend that looks to continue over the 21st century.
• Temperature extremes have changed in Canada, meaning extreme warm temperatures are getting hotter and extreme cold is becoming less cold.
• Extreme hot temperatures will become more frequent and intense.
• Over the last 30 years, the amount of snow-covered land has decreased in Canada.
• Flooding is expected to increase in Canada because of sea-level rise.
• Freshwater shortages in the summer are expected because warmer summers will increase the evaporation of surface water.

We've known that the Arctic had been warmed more than the rest of the planet by a significant margin. It should come as no surprise, then, that countries on the Arctic margin should share in that elevated warming: Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Finland and Russia are all likely to experience accelerated warming particularly on their northern boundaries.

My guarantee that natural variability has been taken into account? If you don't trust me, look for yourself.

Nope... It hasn't...

They upped the input (infill) variables by 2.1 deg C.

All they did is change the garbage in values to get the desired garbage out..

I hate polar bears....the sooner they're all gone the better.

Jo

 

[jc456]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface.

Why not?

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

Billy is quite wrong with his numbers. Back radiation at 3 meters is not attenuated by 1 / 10¹⁷. It would be attenuated by roughly 1/2. However, at above 100 meters, the exponentially drop-off will make it quite small, and for practical purposes, negligible.

Here is the way I look at it.
Above a 100 meters, the CO2 part of the atmosphere is swarming with CO2 in vibration states which are at equilibrium because of the Equipartition of energy. At that altitude the CO2 obtains it's vibration energy from thermal collisions, and has long “forgotten” what was happening nearer the earth surface. At those higher altitudes 15 micron radiation is minimal because collisions are the major energy transfer mechanism. But above the stratosphere, it's a different story when collisions are rare and radiation is the only way for the earth's energy to escape.

However near the earth surface (less than a few dozen meters) the capturing of radiation by GHGs increases the population of the vibration part of the thermal energy, which means that the energy is not equally partitioned anymore, but has an abundance of energy in the vibration mode. In the natural tendency to achieve equilibrium at lower altitudes the excess vibration energy is naturally transferred to kinetic energy of N2 and O2, and other traces gases. The atmosphere near earth thereby heats up. Vibration energy of GHGs near the surface will never be in equilibrium because of Earth's constant radiation outflux. Back radiation also occurs.


.

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface.

Why not?

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

Billy is quite wrong with his numbers. Back radiation at 3 meters is not attenuated by 1 / 10¹⁷. It would be attenuated by roughly 1/2. However, at above 100 meters, the exponentially drop-off will make it quite small, and for practical purposes, negligible.

Here is the way I look at it.
Above a 100 meters, the CO2 part of the atmosphere is swarming with CO2 in vibration states which are at equilibrium because of the Equipartition of energy. At that altitude the CO2 obtains it's vibration energy from thermal collisions, and has long “forgotten” what was happening nearer the earth surface. At those higher altitudes 15 micron radiation is minimal because collisions are the major energy transfer mechanism. But above the stratosphere, it's a different story when collisions are rare and radiation is the only way for the earth's energy to escape.

However near the earth surface (less than a few dozen meters) the capturing of radiation by GHGs increases the population of the vibration part of the thermal energy, which means that the energy is not equally partitioned anymore, but has an abundance of energy in the vibration mode. In the natural tendency to achieve equilibrium at lower altitudes the excess vibration energy is naturally transferred to kinetic energy of N2 and O2, and other traces gases. The atmosphere near earth thereby heats up. Vibration energy of GHGs near the surface will never be in equilibrium because of Earth's constant radiation outflux. Back radiation also occurs.


.

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Once an IR photon is absorbed, there are no more IR photons....ever?

 

[ABikerSailor]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Dude, you are quoting the article that I posted written by a scientist. I'm not the one that made the claims, I just posted what the scientists had to say about it.

He's working an a PhD or something. And he can build an energy destroying tube.
Never dispute his physics.

He can build an "energy destroying tube"? Really? Wonder if he ever heard of the First Law of Thermodynamics?

The first law of thermodynamics, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; energy can only be transferred or changed from one form to another. ... In other words, energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

[jc456]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface.

Why not?

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

Billy is quite wrong with his numbers. Back radiation at 3 meters is not attenuated by 1 / 10¹⁷. It would be attenuated by roughly 1/2. However, at above 100 meters, the exponentially drop-off will make it quite small, and for practical purposes, negligible.

Here is the way I look at it.
Above a 100 meters, the CO2 part of the atmosphere is swarming with CO2 in vibration states which are at equilibrium because of the Equipartition of energy. At that altitude the CO2 obtains it's vibration energy from thermal collisions, and has long “forgotten” what was happening nearer the earth surface. At those higher altitudes 15 micron radiation is minimal because collisions are the major energy transfer mechanism. But above the stratosphere, it's a different story when collisions are rare and radiation is the only way for the earth's energy to escape.

However near the earth surface (less than a few dozen meters) the capturing of radiation by GHGs increases the population of the vibration part of the thermal energy, which means that the energy is not equally partitioned anymore, but has an abundance of energy in the vibration mode. In the natural tendency to achieve equilibrium at lower altitudes the excess vibration energy is naturally transferred to kinetic energy of N2 and O2, and other traces gases. The atmosphere near earth thereby heats up. Vibration energy of GHGs near the surface will never be in equilibrium because of Earth's constant radiation outflux. Back radiation also occurs.


.

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Once an IR photon is absorbed, there are no more IR photons....ever?

correct. it's absorbed and handed over through collision. It is not IR.

 

[mamooth]

I didn't expect an answer from you hairball...and you didn't dissappoint.

Busted! You didn't know the answer to your own BS question, the same way you never know the answer to any of the weepy troll questions you ask.

We've all learned how to deal with Stalinist trolls like you. All we need to do is tell you to answer your own troll questions, and then laugh as you melt down and run.

 

[jc456]

I didn't expect an answer from you hairball...and you didn't dissappoint.

Busted! You didn't know the answer to your own BS question, the same way you never know the answer to any of the weepy troll questions you ask.

We've all learned how to deal with Stalinist trolls like you. All we need to do is tell you to answer your own troll questions, and then laugh as you melt down and run.

that is not an answer however!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When the molecules in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases re-emit this long-wave radiation back toward Earth's surface, the result is warming.

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Dude, you are quoting the article that I posted written by a scientist. I'm not the one that made the claims, I just posted what the scientists had to say about it.

He's working an a PhD or something. And he can build an energy destroying tube.
Never dispute his physics.

He can build an "energy destroying tube"? Really? Wonder if he ever heard of the First Law of Thermodynamics?

The first law of thermodynamics, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; energy can only be transferred or changed from one form to another. ... In other words, energy cannot be created or destroyed.

He can build an "energy destroying tube"? Really?

Really. A paper is in the works.

Wonder if he ever heard of the First Law of Thermodynamics?

Based on some of his comments, it doesn't always apply.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface. You really dont know the physics involved and you like to remain ignorant..

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface.

Why not?

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

Billy is quite wrong with his numbers. Back radiation at 3 meters is not attenuated by 1 / 10¹⁷. It would be attenuated by roughly 1/2. However, at above 100 meters, the exponentially drop-off will make it quite small, and for practical purposes, negligible.

Here is the way I look at it.
Above a 100 meters, the CO2 part of the atmosphere is swarming with CO2 in vibration states which are at equilibrium because of the Equipartition of energy. At that altitude the CO2 obtains it's vibration energy from thermal collisions, and has long “forgotten” what was happening nearer the earth surface. At those higher altitudes 15 micron radiation is minimal because collisions are the major energy transfer mechanism. But above the stratosphere, it's a different story when collisions are rare and radiation is the only way for the earth's energy to escape.

However near the earth surface (less than a few dozen meters) the capturing of radiation by GHGs increases the population of the vibration part of the thermal energy, which means that the energy is not equally partitioned anymore, but has an abundance of energy in the vibration mode. In the natural tendency to achieve equilibrium at lower altitudes the excess vibration energy is naturally transferred to kinetic energy of N2 and O2, and other traces gases. The atmosphere near earth thereby heats up. Vibration energy of GHGs near the surface will never be in equilibrium because of Earth's constant radiation outflux. Back radiation also occurs.


.

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Once an IR photon is absorbed, there are no more IR photons....ever?

correct. it's absorbed and handed over through collision. It is not IR.

That would mean that energy never leaves the atmosphere.
Perhaps you's like to rethink your claim?

 

[Wuwei]

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Energy can't just disappear, so what do you suppose happens to that IR energy from the earth surface beyond 3 meters. (BTW those numbers are wrong but that is a different issue.)


.

 

[SSDD]

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

No...Billy is pointing out that radiation is a bit player and that any energy that is absorbed is most often lost to the molecule via collision and the energy is then consigned to be conducted through the atmosphere till it reaches the top of the atmosphere where it is radiated on....there is no back radiation from the atmosphere to the ground except in rare temperature inversions where the ground is colder than the atmosphere.

You misread Billy who said it was a bit player away from the surface a few meters. It is not a bit player in the first several dozen meters.

As far as no back radiation, there is not physical concept that prevents back radiation. We already went through this.

.

No...I remember perfectly how easily you were fooled...funny that you keep bringing up your gullibility as if it were evidence of anything other than that you lack critical thinking skills.

So, ad hominem is your only reply against the observed measured experiment.


.

It is a bit player from fractions of millimeters above the ground...the concentrations of molecules that so called greenhouse gasses lose their energy to via collision are greater the closer you get to the surface so the likelyhood of losing energy via collision increases even more as you get closer to the ground.

 

[Wuwei]

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

No...Billy is pointing out that radiation is a bit player and that any energy that is absorbed is most often lost to the molecule via collision and the energy is then consigned to be conducted through the atmosphere till it reaches the top of the atmosphere where it is radiated on....there is no back radiation from the atmosphere to the ground except in rare temperature inversions where the ground is colder than the atmosphere.

You misread Billy who said it was a bit player away from the surface a few meters. It is not a bit player in the first several dozen meters.

As far as no back radiation, there is not physical concept that prevents back radiation. We already went through this.

.

No...I remember perfectly how easily you were fooled...funny that you keep bringing up your gullibility as if it were evidence of anything other than that you lack critical thinking skills.

So, ad hominem is your only reply against the observed measured experiment.
.

It is a bit player from fractions of millimeters above the ground...the concentrations of molecules that so called greenhouse gasses lose their energy to via collision are greater the closer you get to the surface so the likelyhood of losing energy via collision increases even more as you get closer to the ground.

Billy says 3 meters. You say fractions of a millimeter. You are going to have to argue it out with Billy. You will need to give him references for your number.


.

 

[SSDD]

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

No...Billy is pointing out that radiation is a bit player and that any energy that is absorbed is most often lost to the molecule via collision and the energy is then consigned to be conducted through the atmosphere till it reaches the top of the atmosphere where it is radiated on....there is no back radiation from the atmosphere to the ground except in rare temperature inversions where the ground is colder than the atmosphere.

You misread Billy who said it was a bit player away from the surface a few meters. It is not a bit player in the first several dozen meters.

As far as no back radiation, there is not physical concept that prevents back radiation. We already went through this.


.

No...I remember perfectly how easily you were fooled...funny that you keep bringing up your gullibility as if it were evidence of anything other than that you lack critical thinking skills.

So, ad hominem is your only reply against the observed measured experiment.
.

It is a bit player from fractions of millimeters above the ground...the concentrations of molecules that so called greenhouse gasses lose their energy to via collision are greater the closer you get to the surface so the likelyhood of losing energy via collision increases even more as you get closer to the ground.

Billy says 3 meters. You say fractions of a millimeter. You are going to have to argue it out with Billy. You will need to give him references for your number.


.

It isn't as if it matters...in either event, it rules out the possibility of a radiative greenhouse effect as described by climate science in the troposphere...

 

[Flash]

Man made global warming is a scam.

How do we know it is a scam?

1. The principle scientists have been caught re handed fabricating data.

2. None of the predictions have ever came true.


Earth Day: Not a Single Environmental Prediction of the Last 50 Years Has Come True

Earth Day: Not a Single Environmental Prediction of the Last 50 Years Has Come True

 

[Wuwei]

It isn't as if it matters...in either event, it rules out the possibility of a radiative greenhouse effect as described by climate science in the troposphere...

Absorption of CO2 at very low altitudes does not rule out the radiative greenhouse effect.

 

[jc456]

Any molecule emitting LWIR above 3 meters will never reach the earths surface.

Why not?

Billy is thinking of the optical depth which is a measure of how deep radiation penetrates a substance. The amount of radiation through the substance drops exponentially with depth. It is also related to the transmittance of the substance.

Billy is quite wrong with his numbers. Back radiation at 3 meters is not attenuated by 1 / 10¹⁷. It would be attenuated by roughly 1/2. However, at above 100 meters, the exponentially drop-off will make it quite small, and for practical purposes, negligible.

Here is the way I look at it.
Above a 100 meters, the CO2 part of the atmosphere is swarming with CO2 in vibration states which are at equilibrium because of the Equipartition of energy. At that altitude the CO2 obtains it's vibration energy from thermal collisions, and has long “forgotten” what was happening nearer the earth surface. At those higher altitudes 15 micron radiation is minimal because collisions are the major energy transfer mechanism. But above the stratosphere, it's a different story when collisions are rare and radiation is the only way for the earth's energy to escape.

However near the earth surface (less than a few dozen meters) the capturing of radiation by GHGs increases the population of the vibration part of the thermal energy, which means that the energy is not equally partitioned anymore, but has an abundance of energy in the vibration mode. In the natural tendency to achieve equilibrium at lower altitudes the excess vibration energy is naturally transferred to kinetic energy of N2 and O2, and other traces gases. The atmosphere near earth thereby heats up. Vibration energy of GHGs near the surface will never be in equilibrium because of Earth's constant radiation outflux. Back radiation also occurs.


.

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Once an IR photon is absorbed, there are no more IR photons....ever?

correct. it's absorbed and handed over through collision. It is not IR.

That would mean that energy never leaves the atmosphere.
Perhaps you's like to rethink your claim?

no thanks,

 

[jc456]

but how do you explain this?

As 99.9% of LWIR is absorbed and then transmitted via conduction in the atmosphere, once the energy reaches about 3 meters up. that is not IR any longer

Energy can't just disappear, so what do you suppose happens to that IR energy from the earth surface beyond 3 meters. (BTW those numbers are wrong but that is a different issue.)


.

it is absorbed, then collides and hands off its energy.

Energy transfer upon collision of selectively excited CO2 molecules: State-to-state cross sections and probabilities for modeling of atmospheres an... - PubMed - NCBI

"Abstract
Carbon dioxide molecules can store and release tens of kcal/mol upon collisions, and such an energy transfer strongly influences the energy disposal and the chemical processes in gases under the extreme conditions typical of plasmas and hypersonic flows. Moreover, the energy transfer involving CO2 characterizes the global dynamics of the Earth-atmosphere system and the energy balance of other planetary atmospheres. Contemporary developments in kinetic modeling of gaseous mixtures are connected to progress in the description of the energy transfer, and, in particular, the attempts to include non-equilibrium effects require to consider state-specific energy exchanges. A systematic study of the state-to-state vibrational energy transfer in CO2 + CO2 collisions is the focus of the present work, aided by a theoretical and computational tool based on quasiclassical trajectory simulations and an accurate full-dimension model of the intermolecular interactions. In this model, the accuracy of the description of the intermolecular forces (that determine the probability of energy transfer in molecular collisions) is enhanced by explicit account of the specific effects of the distortion of the CO2 structure due to vibrations. Results show that these effects are important for the energy transfer probabilities. Moreover, the role of rotational and vibrational degrees of freedom is found to be dominant in the energy exchange, while the average contribution of translations, under the temperature and energy conditions considered, is negligible. Remarkable is the fact that the intramolecular energy transfer only involves stretching and bending, unless one of the colliding molecules has an initial symmetric stretching quantum number greater than a threshold value estimated to be equal to 7.
"

 

[jc456]

It isn't as if it matters...in either event, it rules out the possibility of a radiative greenhouse effect as described by climate science in the troposphere...

Absorption of CO2 at very low altitudes does not rule out the radiative greenhouse effect.

well it does when it collides and hands its energy off.

 

[SSDD]

It isn't as if it matters...in either event, it rules out the possibility of a radiative greenhouse effect as described by climate science in the troposphere...

Absorption of CO2 at very low altitudes does not rule out the radiative greenhouse effect.

The amount of energy lost via collision and resulting conduction to the top of the troposphere does...the amount of radiation happening in the troposphere isn't enough to produce any sort of radiative greenhouse effect...as observations clearly prove.

Been through this all before..if you want to see why you lost the first time, refer to any of the previous incarnations of this exact discussion.