Non-Interventionism: America's Original Foreign Policy...

[gipper]

Isolationism will not work for the United States in modern times.

The Paulites are both unrealistic and just plain wrong in this context.

The last time we tried heading backwards in that direction (1920s-1930s) we got caught with our pants down on December 7, 1941.

What we CAN do is to choose our alignments and interventions and fights more wisely so as to avoid pointless waste of blood and treasure.

Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations... Entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

Given the state of the world, non-interventionalism may as well be isolationism - for all intents and purposes - close enough for Gubmint work.

Again, Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

And let me explain to you my own position, once again...

In the modern world, failure to intervene in specific circumstances is the functional equivalent of isolationism.

I'm not talking about what Webster's Dictionary says... I'm talking about the Real World... APPLIED meanings... which, in the end, is the only thing that signifies.

We should listen to Thomas Jefferson...

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."


“The principles of Jefferson are the axioms of a free society.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

Thomas Jefferson (1743—1826) was no ordinary Founding Father. He served as a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses (1769), a delegate to the Continental Congress (1775), the governor of Virginia (1779), minister to France (1785), the first Secretary of State (1789), the vice president of the United States (1796), and finally, the president of the United States (1801). He also established the University of Virginia (1810)...

Read More:
Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

 

[Mousterian]

The politicians do the bidding of their masters (and it sure as hell ain't us!), and make war where they can. With the bravery of being out of range, of course.
Here's our brave Captain Bonespur cowering when a protester tries to mount the stage.
Remember, he would have rushed in to Parkland, even if he was unarmed... Yeah, right!

 

[xyz]

 

[Kondor3]

Isolationism will not work for the United States in modern times.

The Paulites are both unrealistic and just plain wrong in this context.

The last time we tried heading backwards in that direction (1920s-1930s) we got caught with our pants down on December 7, 1941.

What we CAN do is to choose our alignments and interventions and fights more wisely so as to avoid pointless waste of blood and treasure.

Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations... Entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

Given the state of the world, non-interventionalism may as well be isolationism - for all intents and purposes - close enough for Gubmint work.

Again, Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

And let me explain to you my own position, once again...

In the modern world, failure to intervene in specific circumstances is the functional equivalent of isolationism.

I'm not talking about what Webster's Dictionary says... I'm talking about the Real World... APPLIED meanings... which, in the end, is the only thing that signifies.

We should listen to Thomas Jefferson...

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."


“The principles of Jefferson are the axioms of a free society.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

Thomas Jefferson (1743—1826) was no ordinary Founding Father. He served as a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses (1769), a delegate to the Continental Congress (1775), the governor of Virginia (1779), minister to France (1785), the first Secretary of State (1789), the vice president of the United States (1796), and finally, the president of the United States (1801). He also established the University of Virginia (1810)...

Read More:
Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Yep.

Good stuff.

And it both held true and stood us in good stead for more than a century.

Trouble is, with mass education, high-speed transport and communications, growing political sophistication, exponential increases in technology, weaponry, productivity, etc., the world has become a vastly different place from that which Jefferson - and even Lincoln - knew, or could possibly hope to guide, intelligently and effectively.

Could we engage in time-travel and bring either Jefferson or Lincoln forward in time one or two centuries, and brief them extensively on both history since their times and on the subtleties and trends of a globalized environment, both would, quite probably, albeit reluctantly, concede the point and endorse a modicum of intervention, for the safety of The People and their Republic.

They were not demigods... merely men of high intellect and care for the Republic and its People; articulate men of their times, speculating on an unknow-able future.

 

[Kondor3]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

 

[Tehon]

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ12 of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination13 of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

Those truths are well established. They are read in every page which records the progression from a less arbitrary to a more arbitrary government, or the transition from a popular government to an aristocracy or a monarchy.

James Madison

Founders Online: Political Observations, 20 April 1795

Strange no?

Some of the Founders knew that war leads to tyranny and inequality. Certainly many others around the world knew this fundamental fact centuries ago. Too bad so many Americans today have failed to learn this fundamental fact of reality.

Think of the few politicians over the past 50 years who have opposed the MIC, empire building, and non-stop foriegn interventions. They are all denigrated as quacks and crackpots, by the establishment media and political class. Yet they are the ones who espouse what the Founders believed.

I don't think it is strange at all.

People are easily swayed by money and it generally dictates their behaviors.

Like Jesus, the founders are great until they don't suit the agenda. Then they are easily dismissed.

 

[Dschrute3]

Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations... Entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

Given the state of the world, non-interventionalism may as well be isolationism - for all intents and purposes - close enough for Gubmint work.

Again, Non-Interventionism doesn't = 'Isolationism.'

And let me explain to you my own position, once again...

In the modern world, failure to intervene in specific circumstances is the functional equivalent of isolationism.

I'm not talking about what Webster's Dictionary says... I'm talking about the Real World... APPLIED meanings... which, in the end, is the only thing that signifies.

We should listen to Thomas Jefferson...

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."


“The principles of Jefferson are the axioms of a free society.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

Thomas Jefferson (1743—1826) was no ordinary Founding Father. He served as a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses (1769), a delegate to the Continental Congress (1775), the governor of Virginia (1779), minister to France (1785), the first Secretary of State (1789), the vice president of the United States (1796), and finally, the president of the United States (1801). He also established the University of Virginia (1810)...

Read More:
Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Interesting observation. Something to ponder. Thanks.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

Lincoln and FDR did more to centralize and give massive power to the federal govt than hamilton could ever dream of. We are now worse for those very transgressions by those two presidents.

 

[gipper]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

War never has a good outcome. One would think you would know that by now.

 

[gipper]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

Lincoln and FDR did more to centralize and give massive power to the federal govt than hamilton could ever dream of. We are now worse for those very transgressions by those two presidents.

Without question, but as you well know making that statement gets you branded a traitor and racist by idiots, statists, and warmongers.

 

[gipper]

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ12 of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination13 of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

Those truths are well established. They are read in every page which records the progression from a less arbitrary to a more arbitrary government, or the transition from a popular government to an aristocracy or a monarchy.

James Madison

Founders Online: Political Observations, 20 April 1795

Strange no?

Some of the Founders knew that war leads to tyranny and inequality. Certainly many others around the world knew this fundamental fact centuries ago. Too bad so many Americans today have failed to learn this fundamental fact of reality.

Think of the few politicians over the past 50 years who have opposed the MIC, empire building, and non-stop foriegn interventions. They are all denigrated as quacks and crackpots, by the establishment media and political class. Yet they are the ones who espouse what the Founders believed.

I don't think it is strange at all.

People are easily swayed by money and it generally dictates their behaviors.

Like Jesus, the founders are great until they don't suit the agenda. Then they are easily dismissed.

The strange part is the Founders are venerated by many on the Left and Right, who are fine with the non-stop foriegn interventions. Somehow they missed the Founders very clear position on war and foriegn entanglements.

 

[Kondor3]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

War never has a good outcome. One would think you would know that by now.

(1) the Republic remained unified and (2) Slavery was ended... close enough for Gubmint work.

 

[gipper]

...Sadly, Dishonest Abe ignored Jefferson's advice and committed treason by murdering fellow Americans, to centralize and strengthen the federal government.

Awwwww... somebody didn't like the outcome of the Civil War... 153 years ago... get over it.

War never has a good outcome. One would think you would know that by now.

(1) the Republic remained unified and (2) Slavery was ended... close enough for Gubmint work.

Unified by force after 850k killed, and half the nation destroyed. Good job in the minds of statists.

 

[Kondor3]

...(1) the Republic remained unified and (2) Slavery was ended... close enough for Gubmint work.

Unified by force after 850k killed, and half the nation destroyed. Good job in the minds of statists.

1. people die in all wars- civil wars are the worst - GAR veterans thought it worthwhile - I accept their judgment

2. 1/3 of the nation was destroyed, not 1/2, and it was the less-critical agrarian cotton-and-tobacco -producing third, which was easily replaced/rebuilt

The question was decided 153 years ago... good job, indeed... and sour grapes on the part of the silly descendants of Southern losers.

 

[Kondor3]

America's original non-interventionalist policy was a working maxim in olden times, and an unwork-able dreamer's ideal in modern times.

If we listen to the Paulists, we'll have our own Neville Chamberlain waving a useless piece of paper at an airport within a generation.

No thank you.