No Court Martial for Lt. Col. West

[lilcountriegal]

An officer in Iraq who used shock interrogation tactics to thwart an impending attack on American soldiers will not face a court martial, according to his lawyer.

Lt. Col. Allen B. West will accept Article 15 non-judicial punishment from the commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division at a hearing Friday in Tikrit, Iraq, said Neal A. Puckett, a retired Marine officer.


Lt. Col. Allen B. West in undated family photo (Courtesy Angela West)

Puckett said in an e-mail, Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno will conduct the hearing and decide whether West is guilty of aggravated assault.

The commanding officer has discretion to accept or reject the recommendation of administrative punishment from the officer who presided over West's preliminary hearing in Tikrit last month, Lt. Col. Jimmy Davis. But Puckett said all indications are that West will not be court martialed.

At his preliminary hearing, West acknowledged he allowed two soldiers to beat an Iraqi policeman who refused to reveal details of an ambush plot and fired his pistol near the man's head, threatening to kill him.

If found guilty, the punishment could include a letter of reprimand and perhaps some forfeiture of his pay, Puckett said.

That punishment would be recorded in his official military record, but does not amount to a federal conviction, the lawyer emphasized, which can only be adjudged by a court martial.

"We presume that he will be ordered back to Ft. Hood [Texas] thereafter, but a timeline for his return has been neither established nor promised by the Army," Puckett said. "All indications are that Lt. Col. West will not be ordered to face trial by general court martial, and will be allowed to retire in the grade of lieutenant colonel sometime in the spring of 2004."


Article


He's still facing charges, which I think is absurd... but at least this is a start...

 

[jimnyc]

OUTSTANDING NEWS!!!

 

[Johnney]

So how big was the attack he thwarted supposed to be? I mean I know any loss of one of ours is too great, but was this supposed to be a massacure of some type?

Court martial? shit give him a medal. Stop being so fucking PC about how we collect information, specailly when it saves our guys.

 

[jimnyc]

So how big was the attack he thwarted supposed to be?

I don't know the magnitude, but he most certainly saved lives. Even if it was just one US soldier who was saved - he still deserves a medal.

 

[Psychoblues]

You were never a POW, were you? The Geneva Convention was and is a sound document. Come on, admit it, you're not even a Vet or even one of those fake Vets that survived the '60's, are you?

 

[lilcountriegal]

The Geneva Convention was and is a sound document.

Too bad those on the other side dont abide by that "sound document".

And please point me to the portion of the Geneva Convention that states one is not allowed to "scare the shit" out of someone without physically touching them?

 

[Johnney]

No I wasnt a POW. No I didnt "survive" the 60's. I wasnt around until the 70's.
and lilcountriegal is correct. The Geneva Convention would be a sound document IF they bad guys abided by it.
Like i said, we need to get with the times. Our enemies dont go buy it, so why should we? Did our POW's get a chef flown in when they were captive? I seem to remember we extended that kindness to one of theres, some general. Now tell me, do you think that is the same care our guys recieved.

And one more thing, I served for ten years. I paid for some of these nice freedoms I use. Can you say the same thing?
Hey If your a Vet, thank you for serving
If not, stop trying to harsh me about being one

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
You were never a POW, were you? The Geneva Convention was and is a sound document. Come on, admit it, you're not even a Vet or even one of those fake Vets that survived the '60's, are you?

What does being a vet have to do with evaluating the circumstances in which Col. West extracted the information? I don't need to be a vet to see that he saved lives. Thank God you aren't any longer in the services, if you ever were at all.

 

[Moi]

At his preliminary hearing, West acknowledged he allowed two soldiers to beat an Iraqi policeman who refused to reveal details of an ambush plot and fired his pistol near the man's head, threatening to kill him.

Thus, the man in question is a civilian. Under the Geneva Convention:

1. Civilians are not to be subject to attack. This includes direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks against areas in which civilians are present.
2. There is to be no destruction of property unless justified by military necessity.
3. Individuals or groups must not be deported, regardless of motive.
4. Civilians must not be used as hostages.
5. Civilians must not be subject to outrages upon personal dignity.
6. Civilians must not be tortured, raped or enslaved.
7. Civilians must not be subject to collective punishment and reprisals.
8. Civilians must not receive differential treatment based on race, religion, nationality, or political allegiance.
9. Warring parties must not use or develop biological or chemical weapons and must not allow children under 15 to participate in hostilities or to be recruited into the armed forces.


The Geneva Conventions and supplementary protocols make a distinction between combatants and civilians. The two groups must be treated differently by the warring sides and, therefore, combatants must be clearly distinguishable from civilians. Although this obligation benefits civilians by making it easier for the warring sides to avoid targeting non-combatants, soldiers also benefit because they become immune from prosecution for acts of war. For example, a civilian who shoots a soldier may be liable for murder while a soldier who shoots an enemy soldier and is captured may not be punished.

So, under a strict reading, this may have been against the GC but the slap on the wrist that he got was most likely for the "beating" not for the gun shot near his head. Technically speaking, beating a prisoner, whether civilian or miliary, is against the GC. The punishment seems to fit the crime however and I'm satisfied that justice was served.

 

[Johnney]

Any military knows what the GC is for. But lets face it. Im sure niether side has EVER used deadly force against civies. Im jsut as sure that ever military has NEVER violated the GC. Things happen.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Its a sad day for this nation when we practically reward the use of inhumane interrogation tactics.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Its a sad day for this nation when we practically reward the use of inhumane interrogation tactics.

It's a sad day in this nation when military veterans speak out against other soldiers and we don't hear a peep out of them in regards to the opposing soldiers.

 

[DKSuddeth]

1) the iraqi policeman in question is NOT an opposing soldier, unless theres something NEW developing in Iraq that we haven't been made aware of.

2) You've seen me speak in here against the insurgents and terrorists and my stance against them as well.

3) we are all EQUAL under the law. The law is supposed to be what guides us, not a set of rules that we throw away when it doesn't work for us.



I've seen lower ranking marines prosecuted and imprisoned for silly ass crimes and here we have some lt col. who seriously endangered a CIVILIAN in the hopes of getting information, yes USEFUL information, but that does NOT warrant the possible damage that could have been done to this CIVILIAN.

Also, how do you think the world now views us that we've sunk to the level of alot of dictator nations that resort to torture?

 

[jimnyc]

1) the iraqi policeman in question is NOT an opposing soldier, unless theres something NEW developing in Iraq that we haven't been made aware of.

When said policemen was involved in prior attacks, he is the enemy.

2) You've seen me speak in here against the insurgents and terrorists and my stance against them as well.

Oh please, spare me! There is at least one suicide bombing per week, and I am yet to see you start a thread or reply to a thread without speaking out about how the attacks aren't stopping. I don't see you condemning their acts in the fashion you do to our soldiers.

3) we are all EQUAL under the law. The law is supposed to be what guides us, not a set of rules that we throw away when it doesn't work for us.

Bullshit! When these scumbags start with suicide and sneak attacks, they deserve NOTHING but the harshest treatment. You guys talk about LAW and the GENEVA CONVENTION but I've yet to see a single one of you bring up the same argument against the enemy.

I've seen lower ranking marines prosecuted and imprisoned for silly ass crimes and here we have some lt col. who seriously endangered a CIVILIAN in the hopes of getting information, yes USEFUL information, but that does NOT warrant the possible damage that could have been done to this CIVILIAN

Capitalize CIVILIAN all you like, but since he was involved in prior attacks against our soldiers he is no more than a filthy scumbag.

Seriously endangered? LOL I've been in more danger walking through Harlem!! You've got to be kidding me!

I wake up daily and thank the Lord that soldiers such as yourself and Pyschobabble are no longer on duty. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but it's how I feel.

 

[Johnney]

The guy saved lives. So someone got hurt, it is a war time situation. It was no worse than them torturing our guys. You dont see them hemhawing about who did what to them do you?

I've seen lower ranking marines prosecuted and imprisoned for silly ass crimes and here we have some lt col. who seriously endangered a CIVILIAN in the hopes of getting information, yes USEFUL information, but that does NOT warrant the possible damage that could have been done to this CIVILIAN.

All i have to say about this is RHIP. Its been that way in the past, it will be that way in the future.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Also, how do you think the world now views us that we've sunk to the level of alot of dictator nations that resort to torture?

This isn't the policy of the US government, the army is disciplining this man. He wont be charged as a criminal but in light of the fact that the Iraqi policeman was unhurt, I think the army is applying appropriate correction here. While what they are doing to Col. West is not on the surface very punative, I would point out he is loosing his career over the incident. Other officers in the US army will take note and hopefully respect the line.

 

[DKSuddeth]

When said policemen was involved in prior attacks, he is the enemy.

where does it say he was involved in prior attacks? I have not seen that part.

Oh please, spare me! There is at least one suicide bombing per week, and I am yet to see you start a thread or reply to a thread without speaking out about how the attacks aren't stopping. I don't see you condemning their acts in the fashion you do to our soldiers.

then maybe you aren't reading all my posts. I'll grant you that its not often you see me harping about the insurgents but it has happened.

Bullshit! When these scumbags start with suicide and sneak attacks, they deserve NOTHING but the harshest treatment. You guys talk about LAW and the GENEVA CONVENTION but I've yet to see a single one of you bring up the same argument against the enemy.

so when do we decide that the law doesn't matter jim? when a majority of the people sensibilities are sufficiently offended? The law doesnt provide for harsh treatment or torture but it can provide for harsh penalties AFTER the law and due process has been followed, otherwise you might as well be using voodoo, witchcraft, and the magic 8 ball to determine guilt or innocence.

Seriously endangered? LOL I've been in more danger walking through Harlem!! You've got to be kidding me!

Have you ever had a gun fired right next to your ear? the sound alone can be deafening. The concussion can cause a ruptured eardrum as well as serious bleeding.

It was no worse than them torturing our guys. You dont see them hemhawing about who did what to them do you?

So you don't feel we are any better than them now? Isn't that why nuremburg and the hague were formed and kept around? to try and imprison wartime criminals?

 

[jimnyc]

where does it say he was involved in prior attacks? I have not seen that part.

I can get more links if you don't trust this source:
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/11/05/ar_oped_nt.htm

then maybe you aren't reading all my posts. I'll grant you that its not often you see me harping about the insurgents but it has happened.

Shall we count how many times you spoke out against insurgents and the manner in which they attack? I can count them on one hand, with probably 4 fingers left over.

so when do we decide that the law doesn't matter jim? when a majority of the people sensibilities are sufficiently offended? The law doesnt provide for harsh treatment or torture but it can provide for harsh penalties AFTER the law and due process has been followed, otherwise you might as well be using voodoo, witchcraft, and the magic 8 ball to determine guilt or innocence.

Point me to the posts in which you demanded justice for the enemy going against the GC in their attacks. Oh, you haven't? Why not?

Have you ever had a gun fired right next to your ear? the sound alone can be deafening. The concussion can cause a ruptured eardrum as well as serious bleeding.

I've been on the range and had a .44 magnum shot within 5 feet of my ears on many occassions. I've also had my brother shoot his shotgun within several feet of me as well in his backyard. Scared me a bit, but no permanent damage. And I didn't even attack US soldiers to deserve such treatment!

 

[Johnney]

So you don't feel we are any better than them now? Isn't that why nuremburg and the hague were formed and kept around? to try and imprison wartime criminals?

Its not about feeling better than them. Its about the lives he saved while doing the job he was trained to do by the military.

 

[eric]

So you don't feel we are any better than them now? Isn't that why nuremburg and the hague were formed and kept around? to try and imprison wartime criminals?

To even place the two on the same moral plane is just outrageous. Your contempt for this nation I find reprehensible. Dissent is fine but should be balanced and responsible, how about a little praise for your country once in a while, it would be refreshing.