NLRB Claims authority over Church Schools

[editec]

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

Yeah that is a good point, edjax, one that I cannot entirely dismiss as irrelevant.

But the point of freedom of religion is to keep RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

When a church goes into another business other than devine worship, it ought to be subjec tto the same laws as every other organization in THAT business.

The problem is deciding when a Church has stepped outside the boundry of what CHURCHES are first and foremost all about.

When a Church is in the business of providing SECULAR education, then it is no longer JUST a church.

Hogwash! If my church is forbidden to teach me how to live my faith in concordane with the world around me (secular) it is forbidden to teach it's doctrine.

If I go to Boston College (Jesuit, I think, isn't it?) and major in GEOLOGY, am I studying religion?

No, I am not.

Ergo, that instiution is NOT exclusively doing CHURCH business, it is now about the business of being and educational institute.

As an institution of higher learning it ought to be subject to the exact same laws as every other insitute of higher learning.

Now if BC ONLY taught theology, THEN of course, the government ought to stay the hell out of its business.

But it ain't so let's not pretend otherwise, okay?

 

[edjax1952]

Yeah that is a good point, edjax, one that I cannot entirely dismiss as irrelevant.

But the point of freedom of religion is to keep RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

When a church goes into another business other than devine worship, it ought to be subjec tto the same laws as every other organization in THAT business.

The problem is deciding when a Church has stepped outside the boundry of what CHURCHES are first and foremost all about.

When a Church is in the business of providing SECULAR education, then it is no longer JUST a church.

Hogwash! If my church is forbidden to teach me how to live my faith in concordane with the world around me (secular) it is forbidden to teach it's doctrine.

If I go to Boston College (Jesuit, I think, isn't it?) and major in GEOLOGY, am I studying religion?

No, I am not.

Ergo, that instiution is NOT exclusively doing CHURCH business, it is now about the business of being and educational institute.

As an institution of higher learning it ought to be subject to the exact same laws as every other insitute of higher learning.

Now if BC ONLY taught theology, THEN of course, the government ought to stay the hell out of its business.

But it ain't so let's not pretend otherwise, okay?

If I study geology in a secular (government) school I will be told that man came from an evolution of animals as evidenced by fossils and religious beliefs about where man came from are not only neglected but specifically omitted due to issues of separation of church and state.

Then you tell me that the Church has no business teaching geology in a complete and orderly fashion and including the religious belief that man was created by God and is not an ancestor of the apes because the role of education should be reserved only for secular (government) authority? This and many other differences are precisely the reason that the church not only has a responsibility but a right, under the 1st amendment, to a role as educators of it congregation.

 

[edjax1952]

Hogwash! If my church is forbidden to teach me how to live my faith in concordane with the world around me (secular) it is forbidden to teach it's doctrine.

If I go to Boston College (Jesuit, I think, isn't it?) and major in GEOLOGY, am I studying religion?

No, I am not.

Ergo, that instiution is NOT exclusively doing CHURCH business, it is now about the business of being and educational institute.

As an institution of higher learning it ought to be subject to the exact same laws as every other insitute of higher learning.

Now if BC ONLY taught theology, THEN of course, the government ought to stay the hell out of its business.

But it ain't so let's not pretend otherwise, okay?

If I study geology in a secular (government) school I will be told that man came from an evolution of animals as evidenced by fossils and religious beliefs about where man came from are not only neglected but specifically omitted due to issues of separation of church and state.

Then you tell me that the Church has no business teaching geology in a complete and orderly fashion and including the religious belief that man was created by God and is not an ancestor of the apes because the role of education should be reserved only for secular (government) authority? This and many other differences are precisely the reason that the church not only has a responsibility but a right, under the 1st amendment, to a role as educators of it congregation.

I guess you have an issue with the Quakers and thier educational responsibilities as well?

 

[edjax1952]

Now if BC ONLY taught theology, THEN of course, the government ought to stay the hell out of its business.

How about the church telling the government to stay the hell out of its business.

 

[konradv]

What's the basis of the suit? I can't seem to find it. If we're talking worker protections, as implied by the fact that the NLRB is involved, how does that amount to interference with religion?

 

[edjax1952]

What's the basis of the suit? I can't seem to find it. If we're talking worker protections, as implied by the fact that the NLRB is involved, how does that amount to interference with religion?

Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

It reffers to the right of the school to reject unionization of the educators because it is a church (private) school. The disagreement is that the school should not have non-catholic educators if it want to retain the priveledge of a church (private) school. At least that is what I get from it.

 

[konradv]

BTW, if it were a Muslim school, I get the feeling that many would be saying that they were attempting to set up Sharia Law! Don't really get how labor relations effects religion.

 

[edjax1952]

BTW, if it were a Muslim school, I get the feeling that many would be saying that they were attempting to set up Sharia Law! Don't really get how labor relations effects religion.

Muslims, so far as I know, use their mosques as classrooms. They have not yet created a Muslim school of higher education in the United States, equal to our Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. colleges, to date. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

 

[saveliberty]

Government does not stop business from selling more than one product or service. Separation of churhc and state is not a license to limit religion to a confined area. Ever hear of Bingo at a Catholic church? How about a bake sale in a church? Soup kitchens? Health clinics?

 

[konradv]

BTW, if it were a Muslim school, I get the feeling that many would be saying that they were attempting to set up Sharia Law! Don't really get how labor relations effects religion.

Muslims, so far as I know, use their mosques as classrooms. They have not yet created a Muslim school of higher education in the United States, equal to our Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. colleges, to date. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

It's a "what if". There doesn't have to be an actual example for it to be a legitmate question. We can discuss theory as well as fact here, can't we?

 

[konradv]

What's the basis of the suit? I can't seem to find it. If we're talking worker protections, as implied by the fact that the NLRB is involved, how does that amount to interference with religion?

Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

It reffers to the right of the school to reject unionization of the educators because it is a church (private) school. The disagreement is that the school should not have non-catholic educators if it want to retain the priveledge of a church (private) school. At least that is what I get from it.

What about their being a religiously-backed institution makes them immune to labor laws?

 

[clevergirl]

Turning to the facts of that case, the court reasoned, “The church-teacher relationship in a church-operated school differs from the employment relationship in a public … school. There is no escape from conflicts flowing from [NLRB's] exercise of jurisdiction over teachers in church-operated schools and the consequent serious First Amendment questions that would follow.”

The court then noted that nothing in the law’s language suggested NLRB has power over any church-affiliated organizations. The court invoked one of the most basic principles of American law, that a federal statute “ought not to be construed to violate the Constitution if any other possible construction remains available.”

Accordingly, the court held that federal law did not give NLRB the power it was claiming, so the court need not consider whether to strike down that provision. Instead, it held NLRB lacked any legal jurisdiction to judge the schools’ religiosity, and vacated NLRB’s order.

This is more "Super PAC" union crap! Obama and his Justice department are Big Brother fascists if ever there were any! He is using organized labor to strike at the very freedoms our nation was founded on whenever it suits his purposes.

 

[edjax1952]

BTW, if it were a Muslim school, I get the feeling that many would be saying that they were attempting to set up Sharia Law! Don't really get how labor relations effects religion.

Muslims, so far as I know, use their mosques as classrooms. They have not yet created a Muslim school of higher education in the United States, equal to our Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. colleges, to date. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

It's a "what if". There doesn't have to be an actual example for it to be a legitmate question. We can discuss theory as well as fact here, can't we?

Yes, I like to debate theory, but be prepared to be shot down and discredited by many of the participants if you do. I got a negative Rep because of one of my "semantic" presentations. <:^}

 

[clevergirl]

What's the basis of the suit? I can't seem to find it. If we're talking worker protections, as implied by the fact that the NLRB is involved, how does that amount to interference with religion?

Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

It reffers to the right of the school to reject unionization of the educators because it is a church (private) school. The disagreement is that the school should not have non-catholic educators if it want to retain the priveledge of a church (private) school. At least that is what I get from it.

What about their being a religiously-backed institution makes them immune to labor laws?

Just WHAT labor laws are they breaking?

 

[Wacky Quacky]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

That is a big fail. I know that in NY religious institutions serve regularly in nonreligious function. Shelters, Pantry's, Food Banks, Soup Kitchens, Schools, State Special Education Schools, Charter Schools, Colleges, in which the Property is used. Religious Articles are covered up or removed so the space is neutral. Neither the Local, State, or Federal Authorities have had a problem with that. Keep stirring up shit though.

If a Church sets up a Soup Kitchen, are they responsible to the Health Dept. or not?

Yes, but you never hear that the clam chowder isn't religious enough.

 

[konradv]

Muslims, so far as I know, use their mosques as classrooms. They have not yet created a Muslim school of higher education in the United States, equal to our Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc. colleges, to date. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

It's a "what if". There doesn't have to be an actual example for it to be a legitmate question. We can discuss theory as well as fact here, can't we?

Yes, I like to debate theory, but be prepared to be shot down and discredited by many of the participants if you do. I got a negative Rep because of one of my "semantic" presentations. <:^}

Don't care about rep. Seems it's more of a popularity contest more than anything or a group repping each other just to pump up the numbers, regardless of whether posts are substantive.

 

[edjax1952]

Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

It reffers to the right of the school to reject unionization of the educators because it is a church (private) school. The disagreement is that the school should not have non-catholic educators if it want to retain the priveledge of a church (private) school. At least that is what I get from it.

What about their being a religiously-backed institution makes them immune to labor laws?

Just WHAT labor laws are they breaking?

That is the point. The NLRB wants to strip them of priveledge in order to make them subject to labor union dictates.

 

[konradv]

That is a big fail. I know that in NY religious institutions serve regularly in nonreligious function. Shelters, Pantry's, Food Banks, Soup Kitchens, Schools, State Special Education Schools, Charter Schools, Colleges, in which the Property is used. Religious Articles are covered up or removed so the space is neutral. Neither the Local, State, or Federal Authorities have had a problem with that. Keep stirring up shit though.

If a Church sets up a Soup Kitchen, are they responsible to the Health Dept. or not?

Yes, but you never hear that the clam chowder isn't religious enough.

Maybe if it was a Jewish institution.

 

[saveliberty]

We consider the pastor's position to be a calling and not a job. Most of the rest of it is volunteer helpers.

 

[konradv]

We consider the pastor's position to be a calling and not a job. Most of the rest of it is volunteer helpers.

Relevance?