Niki Haley proposes some common sense changes to Social Security. (will it hurt or help her?}

[DBA]

This guy gets it.
The REST of you under 100K earners, still support the RICH, even though it HURTS you, why???? Because I'm a contard. I'm a cult member.
So MUCH STUPID from the typical RWI.

There is a huge difference between someone that is worth 7 billion and someone that makes, say, four hundred thousand dollars per year, which is how Biden has defined “rich”.

 

[kyzr]

What is Nikki’s plan to fix SS?
All I’ve heard is cut benefits by raising the retirement age for younger workers grandfathering in older workers. And then index full retirement age to life expectancy. And yrs raising retirement age is a benefit cut to reduce expenses.
That does nothing to fix the SS shortfall in 10 years because it will be 20-30 years before the system sees any significant cost reductions because of the grandfathering. A period of time after her term in office.

WW

1. Raise the retirement ages
2. Reduce COLAs
3. Means test benefits,
“What the hell is a guy like me (doing) getting $3,500 a month from the government?” Langone, whose net worth Forbes pegs at more than $7 billion, said of his monthly Social Security benefits. “That’s outrageous. I shouldn’t get a nickel.”

I would hope they raise or remove the cap too.

 

[justoffal]

It's remarkable how the GOP and its voters exist entirely to redistribute wealth from themselves and the rest of us to billionaire overlords

The idea has merit but it's dead in the water because it has no real volume to it. The numbers are minuscule. Even if it was made law it still wouldn't change a damn thing. Not worth the effort to fight over it.

 

[WorldWatcher]

1. Raise the retirement ages

Cut benefits.

2. Reduce COLAs

Cut benefits by making seniors purchasing power go down.

3. Means test benefits,
“What the hell is a guy like me (doing) getting $3,500 a month from the government?” Langone, whose net worth Forbes pegs at more than $7 billion, said of his monthly Social Security benefits. “That’s outrageous. I shouldn’t get a nickel.”

What are the means testing thresholds? Is it means tested based on wage income? Or is it means tested pension income? Or is it means tested based on net worth?

Social Security benefits are not automatic, so why did a guy that is worth 7 Billion apply for Social Security?

(I don't have a problem with means testing, but the thresholds will need to be high, otherwise those that have saved in a 401K/IRA for retirement will be hit.)

I would hope they raise or remove the cap too.

I assume you mean the income cap and not the benefit cap. Raising the income cap without raising the maximum benefit cap is a reasonable choice for the near term.

WW

 

[kyzr]

Cut benefits.

Cut benefits by making seniors purchasing power go down.

What are the means testing thresholds? Is it means tested based on wage income? Or is it means tested pension income? Or is it means tested based on net worth?

Social Security benefits are not automatic, so why did a guy that is worth 7 Billion apply for Social Security?
(I don't have a problem with means testing, but the thresholds will need to be high, otherwise those that have saved in a 401K/IRA for retirement will be hit.)

I assume you mean the income cap and not the benefit cap. Raising the income cap without raising the maximum benefit cap is a reasonable choice for the near term.

WW

1. People live longer. They collect longer. They can work longer. Not a benefit cut.
2. Shared sacrifice to save the SS system. No one gets a free ride except the coxuckers who stole the SS surplus.
3. I assume means testing is based on income. We already pay tax on SS benefits, so I'm not sure this gains much.
4. Agreed that raising the income cap solves the insolvency. Hope its considered.

5. Other changes I like are:
Paying SS & Medicare tax on ALL income.
No one in the US can opt out of SS or Medicare, 100% participation.
Eliminate the Capital Gains tax break.

 

[WorldWatcher]

1. People live longer. They collect longer. They can work longer. Not a benefit cut.

Take any example you wish, then use an age at death and age at eligiblity.

Let's say someone is drawing $2000 a month in social security and dies at 77.

• At FRA of 67 then you have $2000 * 12 months * 10 years = $240,000 in benefits over those 10 years.
• At FRA of 70 then you have $2000 * 12 months * 7 years = $168,000 in benefits over those 7 years.

The whole point of raising the retirement age is to decrease expenditures by cutting benefits.

It's not that people are living that much longer. It's that more people (as a percentage of the population) are living to the point where they draw benefits.

2. Shared sacrifice to save the SS system. No one gets a free ride except the coxuckers who stole the SS surplus.

No one "stole" the SS surplus. It was invested the same way as since inception in the 1930's.

3. I assume means testing is based on income. We already pay tax on SS benefits, so I'm not sure this gains much.

"Income" doesn't define the question. Wage/Salary income? Capital Gains Income? Interest/Dividends? Will Dividends/Interest on 401K's be counted as income even though or IRS purposes it isn't counted as income until money is withdrawn.

Since it's "income", a Billionaire with assets in a corporate holding can draw Social Security. IIRC, Jeff Bezos (Amazon Founder) only draws an $86,000 a year salary but takes other compensation such as $1.6 million in security and travel reimbursement.

4. Agreed that raising the income cap solves the insolvency. Hope its considered.

I think it will be part of the solution.

5. Other changes I like are:
Paying SS & Medicare tax on ALL income.

You've seen my post about rethinking SS and including revenue considered to be income tax eligible.

No one in the US can opt out of SS or Medicare, 100% participation.

This does nothing to address the 2034 shortfall and actually makes matters worse and SS will then assume responsibility for current liabilities.

While there are still some state/local workers not under SS, they are still covered under their respective replacement plan. They mytho's that all state/local employees aren't under SS isn't correct.

Eliminate the Capital Gains tax break.

Not sure about this as I'd have to think about it. Do we really want average people to have to pay straight income tax on the sale of a home?

WW

 

[EMH]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/nikki-haley-social-security-medicare-reform/index.html

I have always wondered, "WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS?" Niki's plan makes sense, even though some of the details are wonky at this early stage. This has go to give her a leg up (pardon the pun) on the rest of the repub field...especially the insurrectionist named trump.

CNN and Left Wing Jew Supremacists love Haley...

 

[tahuyaman]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/nikki-haley-social-security-medicare-reform/index.html

I have always wondered, "WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS?" Niki's plan makes sense, even though some of the details are wonky at this early stage. This has go to give her a leg up (pardon the pun) on the rest of the repub field...especially the insurrectionist named trump.

Means testing is not a new idea.

 

[Flash]

I am all for opting out as an option for those who are considered “rich”. The problem is that most in that category would opt out because frankly they can make more money investing than by giving to SS, not to mention that any remaining money on their death could be passed to their beneficiaries.

Everybody can make more money investing that 7.5% they are forced to pay into the program and the additional 7.5% their employer is also forced.

That was proven in the Galveston area where the municipal workers managed to opt out of Social Security and run their own retirement plan. The participants made twice as much money as they would have got with SS. That was with the ups and downs of the investment markets over a long period of time.

Social Security is a terrible government run retirement program. The best thing is to phase it out entirely. The next best thing is to make it voluntary. The worst thing is to continue with it as is.

 

[kyzr]

Take any example you wish, then use an age at death and age at eligiblity.

Let's say someone is drawing $2000 a month in social security and dies at 77.

• At FRA of 67 then you have $2000 * 12 months * 10 years = $240,000 in benefits over those 10 years.
• At FRA of 70 then you have $2000 * 12 months * 7 years = $168,000 in benefits over those 7 years. The whole point of raising the retirement age is to decrease expenditures by cutting benefits. It's not that people are living that much longer. It's that more people (as a percentage of the population) are living to the point where they draw benefits.

No one "stole" the SS surplus. It was invested the same way as since inception in the 1930's.

"Income" doesn't define the question. Wage/Salary income? Capital Gains Income? Interest/Dividends? Will Dividends/Interest on 401K's be counted as income even though or IRS purposes it isn't counted as income until money is withdrawn.

Since it's "income", a Billionaire with assets in a corporate holding can draw Social Security. IIRC, Jeff Bezos (Amazon Founder) only draws an $86,000 a year salary but takes other compensation such as $1.6 million in security and travel reimbursement.

I think it will be part of the solution.

You've seen my post about rethinking SS and including revenue considered to be income tax eligible.

This does nothing to address the 2034 shortfall and actually makes matters worse and SS will then assume responsibility for current liabilities.

While there are still some state/local workers not under SS, they are still covered under their respective replacement plan. They mytho's that all state/local employees aren't under SS isn't correct.

Not sure about this as I'd have to think about it. Do we really want average people to have to pay straight income tax on the sale of a home?

WW

1. True that the average age of Americans dying isn't rising much, I think its holding about 84. But that age has risen significantly since 1948. Its one of the tweaks that SS needs to make periodically to stay solvent. More SS payees & fewer workers.

2. Yes the "Unified Budget" did steal the SS surplus. That's why Al Gore kept saying he would keep the surplus in a "lock box".

Unified budget - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The United States government adopted a unified budget in the Johnson administration in 1968, beginning with the 1969 budget. The surplus in the Social Security OASDI (Old Age Survivors and Disabilities Insurance) budget offsets the total deficit, making it appear smaller than it otherwise would."

Where is Al Gore's Lock Box?

America's oldest grassroots taxpayer organization working for lower taxes, smaller government, accountability from public officials, and economic freedom at all levels by advocating reform of the tax code, less wasteful spending, the adoption of constitutional provisions -- such as TABOR, the...

www.ntu.org

3. Lets say to save SS that income means all income, 401k income is only when withdrawn like it is now.

4. Making SS 100% participation does NOT assume ANY responsibilities for current pension liabilities. When pensions switch to or add SS they are still liable for the money collected. Whether they roll it into a 401k, or still furnish a pension.

5. Eliminating the Capital Gains tax break is just for investment income. I think selling a house has a special exemption.

 

[WorldWatcher]

1. True that the average age of Americans dying isn't rising much, I think its holding about 84. But that age has risen significantly since 1948. Its one of the tweaks that SS needs to make periodically to stay solvent. More SS payees & fewer workers.

View attachment 871359

Which is more impacted by the reduction in infant mortality rates and pre-65 deaths. Which like I said, causes more people to actually reach SS FRA and not dyeing.

WW

 

[Stormy Daniels]

I don’t understand

That's pretty much your lifelong theme song, and I don't think I can help you with that.

 

[ActionJackson]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/nikki-haley-social-security-medicare-reform/index.html

I have always wondered, "WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS?" Niki's plan makes sense, even though some of the details are wonky at this early stage. This has go to give her a leg up (pardon the pun) on the rest of the repub field...especially the insurrectionist named trump.

Beware when a liberal endorses a RINO ...

 

[Billy000]

That's pretty much your lifelong theme song, and I don't think I can help you with that.

Well you could just respond to my full quote addressing my question. That might help.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Well you could just respond to my full quote addressing my question. That might help.

I responded to it before you even asked. Social Security is funded by taxes just like every other government expenditure. Nobody pays into Social Security anymore than people pay into the military or any other form of government spending.

 

[Billy000]

I responded to it before you even asked. Social Security is funded by taxes just like every other government expenditure. Nobody pays into Social Security anymore than people pay into the military or any other form of government spending.

Right but whatever you want to call it, the same people who benefited from SS also paid the tax as workers.

 

[rampart]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/nikki-haley-social-security-medicare-reform/index.html

I have always wondered, "WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS?" Niki's plan makes sense, even though some of the details are wonky at this early stage. This has go to give her a leg up (pardon the pun) on the rest of the repub field...especially the insurrectionist named trump.

when millionaires stop receiving checks the program changes from "insurance," as now to "charity." from there it is easy to kill

 

[rampart]

Right but whatever you want to call it, the same people who benefited from SS also paid the tax as workers.

so what. everybody who got their roofs fixed after the hurricane paid for that in insurance premiums.

another mistake is the belief of conservatives that the program is an investment. if you are not hit by the hurricane, you do not get your money back from allstate. reach for their money and get slapped by those big hands. .

Stormy Daniels i have always heard fica described as a "tax." it is certainly administered the same way with withholding and such, but the program is "insurance" with several necessary side benefits including stability of the currency , the economy, and the people.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/politics/nikki-haley-social-security-medicare-reform/index.html

I have always wondered, "WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES RECEIVING SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS?" Niki's plan makes sense, even though some of the details are wonky at this early stage. This has go to give her a leg up (pardon the pun) on the rest of the repub field...especially the insurrectionist named trump.

Not a great time to suggest anything so
-ambitious-. Healing first.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

SS is an earned benefit for payroll employees.
By law.

Either build a replacement law and get it enacted or fuck off.

If a billionaire pays enough payroll taxes to qualify for a benefit. Then they deserve it in the exact same way as those who object.

Just because they no longer pay in or no longer “need”, them - certainly doesn’t mean they should cede them for those who didn’t earn them under the law.

Create a new tax that gets you where you want to be. Do the work. This country has had enough low hanging fruit plucked for a bit.