New Japanese sub design

[fncceo]

After a refit on my SSBN we had an extended sea trial where we participated in ASW exercises with surface and air assets.

It was very comforting for sub sailors to learn just how difficult it was to be located.. we even operated noise generators that were supposed to replicate Soviet sub frequencies and that were so loud it made it difficult to sleep in lower level.

During one exercise our SSBN … running under normal feed pumps and a noisemaker… we were able to get so close to a carrier (I won’t say which one but it was named after a President with a beard and a stovepipe hat) that when we fired a flare to indicate a torpedo launch, the flare landed on the carrier superstructure and started a pretty large fire… the periscope photo was spectacular and a framed copy was mailed to the carrier’s captain.

When operating with S3s in the vicinity trying to locate us, they kept asking for radio checks on VHF and still couldn’t find us. The comm officer finally said, “The Russian aren’t going to do this for you”.

It had the whole crew in stitches.

 

[Zavulon]

After a refit on my SSBN we had an extended sea trial where we participated in ASW exercises with surface and air assets.

It was very comforting for sub sailors to learn just how difficult it was to be located.. we even operated noise generators that were supposed to replicate Soviet sub frequencies and that were so loud it made it difficult to sleep in lower level.

During one exercise our SSBN … running under normal feed pumps and a noisemaker… we were able to get so close to a carrier (I won’t say which one but it was named after a President with a beard and a stovepipe hat) that when we fired a flare to indicate a torpedo launch, the flare landed on the carrier superstructure and started a pretty large fire… the periscope photo was spectacular and a framed copy was mailed to the carrier’s captain.

When operating with S3s in the vicinity trying to locate us, they kept asking for radio checks on VHF and still couldn’t find us. The comm officer finally said, “The Russian aren’t going to do this for you”.

It had the whole crew in stitches.

It still depends on skills of sailors and orgainisation of the operation. First time Ohio class boomer was found and shadowed for five days by a Russian attack submarine was in 1987, operation Aport, submarine K-147.

 

[fncceo]

It still depends on skills of sailors and orgainisation of the operation. First time Ohio class boomer was found and shadowed for five days by a Russian attack submarine was in 1987, operation Aport, submarine K-147.

When our fast-attack subs followed Russian boomers out from the Arctic Ocean they tailed them for their entire patrol (typically much shorter than our patrols).

Why would a Soviet Victor III (a much noisier sub than our Boomer) tail a US sub and then break off after only five days?

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Bitterhook]

My friend is the Captain of the USS Nevada.

But did he give you the best sub-related advice ever, "If she doesn't go down, then she isn't worth riding".

 

[fncceo]

But did he give you the best sub-related advice ever, "If she doesn't go down, then she isn't worth riding".

Many ships go down ... most eventually.

The trick is getting on one that's purpose built to come back up again.

 

[Bitterhook]

Many ships go down ... most eventually.

The trick is getting on one that's purpose built to come back up again.

Well, if she's coming one way or the other, then you're doing it right.

 

[Zavulon]

When our fast-attack subs followed Russian boomers out from the Arctic Ocean they tailed them for their entire patrol (typically much shorter than our patrols).

Why would a Soviet Victor III (a much noisier sub than our Boomer) tail a US sub and then break off after only five days?

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

It is not a routine thing to shadow an Ohio-class submarine. A lot of men (including intelligence guys) were involved (say nothing about five attacking submarines and some recon ships). More you follow them - more chances that something is going wrong. And, after all, it was 1997 - Gorbachev, Perestroika, friendship and mutual trust. Political leadership didn't want to spoil all those things. So, they proved the possibilities, they tested equipment and returned back without demonstrating it.
Plus, of course, Russians never believed in American out-of-blue attack.

 

[Mac-7]

Smaller conventional subs have a limited niche is shallower littoral waters, but that's pretty much their only advantage beyond being cheaper.

I bet the smaller subs are cheaper and therefore more numerous

Then there are the Swedes and their super quiet subs thst even drive the US Navy nuts trying to detect them

Deadly Silent: Sweden's Stealth Submarines Are Getting Even Quieter

Here’s What You Need to Know: Quiet submarines are difficult to hunt. The Gotland-class of submarines are the pride of the Swedish Navy. They’re really quiet—and are getting even quieter. Gotland-class The Gotland-class has a number of features that are optimized for a minimal acoustic...

nationalinterest.org

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I bet the smaller subs are cheaper and therefore more numerous

Then there are the Swedes and their super quiet subs thst even drive the US Navy nuts trying to detect them

Deadly Silent: Sweden's Stealth Submarines Are Getting Even Quieter

Here’s What You Need to Know: Quiet submarines are difficult to hunt. The Gotland-class of submarines are the pride of the Swedish Navy. They’re really quiet—and are getting even quieter. Gotland-class The Gotland-class has a number of features that are optimized for a minimal acoustic...

nationalinterest.org

Those super quiet subs are extremely limited to littoral waters. They do not have a blue-water capability. The carrier should have just stayed away from the coast.

 

[Zavulon]

Those super quiet subs are extremely limited to littoral waters. They do not have a blue-water capability. The carrier should have just stayed away from the coast.

First of all, even a super quite submarinea is a bubble of air in water. Active sonar can detect them as well as anything else.

 

[Mac-7]

Those super quiet subs are extremely limited to littoral waters. They do not have a blue-water capability. The carrier should have just stayed away from the coast.

Does that make them useless?


They do not have a blue-water capability.

Are you sure?

This source says they do

Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“After being refitted and upgraded to sustain the higher temperatures of tropical water,<a href="Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>HSwMS Halland took part in a multi-national exercise in the Mediterranean from September 16, 2000. Allegedly, there she remained undetected while still recording many of her friendly adversaries, attracting interest from the participating countries. In early November of the same year, she participated in a NATO "blue-water" exercise in the Atlantic. There, she reportedly won a victory in a mock "duel" with Spanish naval units, and then the same in a similar duel against a French SSN, a nuclear-powered attack submarine. She also defeated an American SSN, the USS Houston”

.<a href="Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Does that make them useless?


They do not have a blue-water capability.

Are you sure?

This source says they do

Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“After being refitted and upgraded to sustain the higher temperatures of tropical water,<a href="Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>HSwMS Halland took part in a multi-national exercise in the Mediterranean from September 16, 2000. Allegedly, there she remained undetected while still recording many of her friendly adversaries, attracting interest from the participating countries. In early November of the same year, she participated in a NATO "blue-water" exercise in the Atlantic. There, she reportedly won a victory in a mock "duel" with Spanish naval units, and then the same in a similar duel against a French SSN, a nuclear-powered attack submarine. She also defeated an American SSN, the USS Houston”

.<a href="Gotland-class submarine - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>

They do not venture too far from shore.

 

[Mac-7]

They do not venture too far from shore.

I gave you info that suggests they do

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I gave you info that suggests they do

On rare occasions, not sustainable for long periods because they run out of fuel.

 

[westwall]

On rare occasions, not sustainable for long periods because they run out of fuel.

Our Fleet subs did fine in WWII. The mission designs the sub.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Our Fleet subs did fine in WWII. The mission designs the sub.

Our fleet subs ran on the surface most of the time. That's suicide today.

 

[fncceo]

A World War II submarine was in fact, just a submersible. A surface ship capable of brief dives under water.

A modern submarine's natural environment is submerged. Modern sub patrols last months and the boat is fully submerged the entire time, coming periodically to periscope depth to get a satellite fix, transmit traffic, or recirculate boat air with outside air to equalize partial pressures of the gases manufactured while submerged.

That dictates a complete change in doctrine from our Dad's boat to the present day.

 

[westwall]

Our fleet subs ran on the surface most of the time. That's suicide today.

The subs sonar apparatus is far more sensitive these days so they can run with a snorkel for long periods, and thanks to their radar detectors they have ample warning from airborne threats as well.

And, if it gets too nasty, they can go deep and sit for a week, or two.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The subs sonar apparatus is far more sensitive these days so they can run with a snorkel for long periods, and thanks to their radar detectors they have ample warning from airborne threats as well.

And, if it gets too nasty, they can go deep and sit for a week, or two.

I'm sorry, but you are just too ignorant to be believed. Running with the snorkel and diesels on makes your passive sonar absolutely ******* useless. Plus, you can be heard sometimes a hundred miles away.

Aircraft don't find subs with radar most of the time anyway. You just need to quietly dismiss yourself.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Our fleet subs ran on the surface most of the time. That's suicide today.

WW2 subs were submersible torpedo boats. They were optimized to run on the surface. U Boats typically attacked on the surface to increase their mobility.