New Book on the Vietnam War

[rightwinger]

And again with all that hindsight you still get it 100% wrong. lol

Show your numbers and compare Vietnams economy to 50 years ago

 

[Picaro]

Show your numbers and compare Vietnams economy to 50 years ago

Read a book. I don't take orders from commies and American haters.

I am preparing an essay on Howard Zinn's rubbish re Viet Nam, but it will be a week or so before I type it up; I have other fish to fry, and it will probably be posted elsewhere, since the moderation here is really harsh on those who make their dumbass socks look bad and make pedoes cry and feel unwanted n stuff.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sadly for you, the reality of the past 50 years proved you wrong

Rather than the poor rice farmers scratching out a living, today Vietnam has a strong manufacturing capability and actually has a middle class
Vietnam is building modern infrastructure and has a rising GDP

All due to giving up communism in favor of capitalism. PERIOD.

 

[Picaro]

All due to giving up communism in favor of capitalism. PERIOD.

This idiot is trying to pretend Viet Nam wouldn't have recieved all those jobs without the commies taking over. lol what a goof. .

 

[rightwinger]

All due to giving up communism in favor of capitalism. PERIOD.

Same thing happened in China when they gave up Maoism. Their economy thrived.

Not all Communism is the same.

Vietnam and China have thriving economies

 

[whitehall]

Just when it seemed that the NVA was finally exhausted after Tet, LBJ quit the fight on national T.V.

 

[rightwinger]

This idiot is trying to pretend Viet Nam wouldn't have recieved all those jobs without the commies taking over. lol what a goof. .

But they didn’t under Western control
They felt like they were being exploited and they were.

The point is….we killed 2 million Vietnamese and 60,000 Americans to keep them from turning Communist.

History shows they thrived

 

[iamwhatiseem]

This idiot is trying to pretend Viet Nam wouldn't have recieved all those jobs without the commies taking over. lol what a goof. .

The Vietnam war was a quagmire so poorly fought, and what the French did was egregious. He is right about that, but this fantasy that if the war never happened they would have been just fine is simply dumb. Again, during Japanese occupation as many as 2,000,000 starved to death and Japan left it an absolute mess. France had ideas, but all they wanted was basically to enslave them and send the profits back to France.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Same thing happened in China when they gave up Maoism. Their economy thrived.

Not all Communism is the same.

Vietnam and China have thriving economies

... because they are no longer communist.
And China, outside of their premier cities - is grinding 3rd world poverty.
The part that are still communist is absolute nightmare living.
Only the areas where capitalism thrives do Chinese live well

 

[rightwinger]

... because they are no longer communist.
And China, outside of their premier cities - is grinding 3rd world poverty.
The part that are still communist is absolute nightmare living.
Only the areas where capitalism thrives do Chinese live well

China has made a remarkable turnaround in the last 30 years.
No, you do not turn a billion peasants into a vibrant middle class overnight. But China has made remarkable progress and has invested more into modern infrastructure in recent years than we have.

Compare to Russia after the fall of the USSR. Russia had a chance to embrace Capitalism. They have failed miserably

 

[iamwhatiseem]

China has made a remarkable turnaround in the last 30 years.
No, you do not turn a billion peasants into a vibrant middle class overnight. But China has made remarkable progress and has invested more into modern infrastructure in recent years than we have.

Compare to Russia after the fall of the USSR. Russia had a chance to embrace Capitalism. They have failed miserably

China is the bane of the world. I am surprised you are saying any of this.
China forced their population to be economic slaves of the world in order to get enough money to expand their military and build big beautiful buildings that are empty. They are just about the most vile nation on earth currently.

 

[rightwinger]

China is the bane of the world. I am surprised you are saying any of this.
China forced their population to be economic slaves of the world in order to get enough money to expand their military and build big beautiful buildings that are empty. They are just about the most vile nation on earth currently.

It is all relative.

China is much better off than they were under Mao. They have industrialized at a remarkable rate. They now have a strong middle class that they never had before

Compared to Russia who had a much better opportunity after the fall of the USSR. But Russia ignored Capitalist development and built an economy around oil.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is all relative.

China is much better off than they were under Mao. They have industrialized at a remarkable rate. They now have a strong middle class that they never had before

Compared to Russia who had a much better opportunity after the fall of the USSR. But Russia ignored Capitalist development and built an economy around oil.

So basing an economy off of slavery is still okay? In 2025?
China abuses and enslaves the majority of their population in order to enrich the elites.

 

[rightwinger]

So basing an economy off of slavery is still okay? In 2025?
China abuses and enslaves the majority of their population in order to enrich the elites.

You are being overly dramatic

No, Chinese workers are not slaves.
They are seeing rising salaries and more and more are entering middle class.


Size of China’s Middle Class

• National Bureau of Statistics / Wikipedia reports that by 2024, China’s middle-income population surpassed 500 million people – larger than the entire U.S. population  .

 

[AZrailwhale]

The poverty in Vietnam was a result of French Colonialism who used the people as slave labor and sent all profits back to France.

When France fell to Germany in 1940, the French refused to defend Vietnam. Japan quickly filled the void and it was the Vietnamese who fought bitter resistance against the Japanese.
After fighting the Japanese alone for five years, the Vietnamese people believed they had earned a right to independence. Ho Chi Minh took his case to the Western Powers.
Instead, the US agreed that Vietnam should be returned to the French.

Why we ended up in a war for the next 30 years

Germany ordered the Vichy Government to turn Indochina over to the Japanese. But the French had no ability to defend it anyway. No navy to speak of a few MS-406 and Bloch 152 fighters and a few thousand colonial troops at best.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Same thing happened in China when they gave up Maoism. Their economy thrived.

Not all Communism is the same.

Vietnam and China have thriving economies

China is teetering on the edge of economic collapse. It has empty cities built as graft for powerful party members, condo towers that are deteriorating before the first to move in can pay off their mortgages and companies are fleeing to cheaper and more stable locations. If China as we know it lasts another decade, I will be astonished.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You are being overly dramatic

No, Chinese workers are not slaves.
They are seeing rising salaries and more and more are entering middle class.


Size of China’s Middle Class

• National Bureau of Statistics / Wikipedia reports that by 2024, China’s middle-income population surpassed 500 million people – larger than the entire U.S. population  .

China has 1.4 Billion people RW
Out of that is less than 1000 billionaires - .00007% of population
And 6.2 millionaires - .45% of the population.
That is less than one half of one percent are wealthy.
Gemini using global census has China's middle class at 400 million, which is 28% of the population
That leaves 72% of the population is poor.

 

[Picaro]

The Vietnam war was a quagmire so poorly fought,

Don't agree at all. Media spin is mostly lies, and using the old' tell a big enough lie often enough' gimmick reds and their useful idiots always rely on. The North got nowhere without outside help, and the South got dumped by the Watergate Babies; it's pretty straight forward why it fell, no mystery. It was doing okay, better the commie North was doing by a long shot.

 

[Picaro]

China has 1.4 Billion people RW
Out of that is less than 1000 billionaires - .00007% of population
And 6.2 millionaires - .45% of the population.
That is less than one half of one percent are wealthy.
Gemini using global census has China's middle class at 400 million, which is 28% of the population
That leaves 72% of the population is poor.

The 'middle class' and 'rich' in REd China are nearly all Cadre families and their relatives. Red China has sever restrictions on who can sell in their domestic markets; your company has to pay a Cadre member as a 'partner' just to have the political pull to do business there, and you have to build your factory and production lines there, no importing much in the way of finished goods. They steal a lot of tech that way. A lot of multi-national corps are fine with that, as long as they get access to slave labor and more profits, they don't give two shits about selling out the U.S.

 

[rightwinger]

China has 1.4 Billion people RW
Out of that is less than 1000 billionaires - .00007% of population
And 6.2 millionaires - .45% of the population.
That is less than one half of one percent are wealthy.
Gemini using global census has China's middle class at 400 million, which is 28% of the population
That leaves 72% of the population is poor.

The point was not that everyone in China is now middle class but that China went from a country of over a billion peasants to a nation with over 500 million in middle class