NATO helped trigger the war in Ukraine

[AZrailwhale]

Actually the Russians are not unreasonable, blood-lusting monsters, as some propogandists want to depict them. If they were - the deterrence (and Cold War itself) was impossible. They had pretty good reasons (from their point of view) to attack Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, as well as "rebels" and "opposition" in Syria, Libya, Mali and Venezuela.

Germany and Japan had good reasons (in their opinion) for all their invasions and atrocities in WWII.

 

[Silver Cat]

Germany and Japan had good reasons (in their opinion) for all their invasions and atrocities in WWII.

Yes, of course. And that why we can work with them now.
What is better - to fight against Russia or work with her to find formula of 'undivided safety'? It depends on many circumstances.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, of course. And that why we can work with them now.
What is better - to fight against Russia or work with her to find formula of 'undivided safety'? It depends on many circumstances.

We can work with them now because we first destroyed, then replaced their governments with sane ones that respect international law. You might want to take a hint from that and replace your kleptocratic government with one that actually represents and cares for the Russian people.

 

[SavannahMann]

One can of course understand both NATO and Moscow but that these moves by NATO would result in Moscow going to war is not hard to see. Then there are those in NATO who actually wants this conflict in Ukraine i´m told.

Can we discuss why? Money?

Washington Helped Trigger the Ukraine War

The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA to bolster Ukraine are just now becoming apparent.

www.theamericanconservative.com

"The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA are just now becoming apparent.

For years, the Kremlin made it emphatically clear that inviting Ukraine to join NATO would cross a red line that threatened Russia’s vital security interests.

Evidence grew in recent years that the United States had begun to treat Ukraine as a NATO ally in all but name. Steps included pouring nearly $3 billion in “security assistance” (primarily weaponry) into the country since 2014.

The CIA “made a series of covert moves that have helped prepare the Ukrainian security services for the current crisis. Shortly after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, the agency initiated secret paramilitary training programs for Ukrainian special operations personnel in the U.S. and on Ukraine’s former eastern front.”"

Ukraine wasn’t invited to join NATO. Several NATO members said no such invitation would be made.

The problem is that Putin being a pathological liar assumes that everyone is lying. He wanted Cold War 2.0 and he has it. If he wants WW 3 he can have that too.

 

[Ringo]

People who left Russia because of the rejection of the war will be able to simplify their lives in emigration. The Russian anti-war conference, which will be held tomorrow in Vilnius, sets this as one of its tasks.

After the outbreak of the war, many opposition activists were forced to leave the country, fearing persecution. Now they face discrimination abroad because of the color of their passport. Politicians, activists and experts will discuss this problem at the meeting of the anti-war committee tomorrow, the forum organizing committee told MO.

The Russian Anti-War Committee, created after the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, intends to represent the interests of Russians who oppose the war. It is expected that the committee will draw up an "anti-war declaration", by signing which a person delegates to the committee the right to represent his interests.

According to one of the organizers, those who signed such a declaration may receive a "good Russian" document, which would facilitate checks at banks, when obtaining visas, and would also open access to services that are not available to Russians.

Political scientist Alexander Morozov, a participant of the forum, said on his Facebook that new ideas will be discussed at the section "The Russian Democratic Movement: the next step." However, he did not disclose their contents.
Oh! So the "yellow stars" from democratic Europe have arrived.

 

[badger2]

Anti-war is too late precisely due to the West's arrogance and stupidity since well before 2014 Euromaidan. When the CIA goes to church, whether in Ukraine or anywhere else, it's not to pray:

'Even Angola's devastation, however, paled in comparison withj the desolation that would be visited on Afghanistan. As 30,000 Red Army troops were mobilizing to occupy the capital Kabul in December 1979, national security dviser Zbigniew Brzezinski persuaded President Jimmy Carter to authorize $500 million for Operation Cyclone, a bold CIA geopolitical campaign aimed at destabilizing the Soviet Union by arousing militant Islam inside its Central Asian republics. "We didn't push the Russians to intervene," Brzezinski later explained, "but we consciously increased the probability that they would do so. The secret operation was an excellent idea. Its effect was to draw the Russians into the Afghan trap." '
(McCoy, To Govern the Globe: World Orders and Catastrophic Change, p. 234)

 

[toomuchtime_]

Anti-war is too late precisely due to the West's arrogance and stupidity since well before 2014 Euromaidan. When the CIA goes to church, whether in Ukraine or anywhere else, it's not to pray:

'Even Angola's devastation, however, paled in comparison withj the desolation that would be visited on Afghanistan. As 30,000 Red Army troops were mobilizing to occupy the capital Kabul in December 1979, national security dviser Zbigniew Brzezinski persuaded President Jimmy Carter to authorize $500 million for Operation Cyclone, a bold CIA geopolitical campaign aimed at destabilizing the Soviet Union by arousing militant Islam inside its Central Asian republics. "We didn't push the Russians to intervene," Brzezinski later explained, "but we consciously increased the probability that they would do so. The secret operation was an excellent idea. Its effect was to draw the Russians into the Afghan trap." '
(McCoy, To Govern the Globe: World Orders and Catastrophic Change, p. 234)

It was a brilliant move, rare for Carter. It led directly a few years later to the Reagan decision to send Stringer missiles to Afghanistan, which led directly to the Russian withdrawal which led to the dissolution of the USSR, the global nightmare that replaced the Nazi nightmare at the end of WWII.

 

[Litwin]

Moscow

ivan how many chechen dicks do you to suck daily ? you are a war - criminal do you know it ?

 

[Donald H]

One can of course understand both NATO and Moscow but that these moves by NATO would result in Moscow going to war is not hard to see. Then there are those in NATO who actually wants this conflict in Ukraine i´m told.

Can we discuss why? Money?

Washington Helped Trigger the Ukraine War

The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA to bolster Ukraine are just now becoming apparent.

www.theamericanconservative.com

"The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA are just now becoming apparent.

For years, the Kremlin made it emphatically clear that inviting Ukraine to join NATO would cross a red line that threatened Russia’s vital security interests.

Evidence grew in recent years that the United States had begun to treat Ukraine as a NATO ally in all but name. Steps included pouring nearly $3 billion in “security assistance” (primarily weaponry) into the country since 2014.

The CIA “made a series of covert moves that have helped prepare the Ukrainian security services for the current crisis. Shortly after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, the agency initiated secret paramilitary training programs for Ukrainian special operations personnel in the U.S. and on Ukraine’s former eastern front.”"

You've created a hot button issue with this one. But of course this is America's war against Russia.

Other problems are developing, even though it's not a significant problem for Russia.

Erdogan Says Turkey Won't Drop Opposition to Sweden, Finland NATO Bids - News From Antiwar.com

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan stood firm on Thursday in his opposition to Finland and Sweden’s bids for NATO membership, saying Ankara will not drop its objections. “We have told our relevant friends we would say ‘no’ to Finland and Sweden’s entry into NATO, and we will continue on our...

news.antiwar.com

Turkey is of huge strategic importance for America's wars.
While Finland and Sweden are nothing but propaganda victories.

 

[georgephillip]

One can of course understand both NATO and Moscow but that these moves by NATO would result in Moscow going to war is not hard to see. Then there are those in NATO who actually wants this conflict in Ukraine i´m told.

Can we discuss why? Money?

Washington Helped Trigger the Ukraine War

The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA to bolster Ukraine are just now becoming apparent.

www.theamericanconservative.com

"The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA are just now becoming apparent.

For years, the Kremlin made it emphatically clear that inviting Ukraine to join NATO would cross a red line that threatened Russia’s vital security interests.

Evidence grew in recent years that the United States had begun to treat Ukraine as a NATO ally in all but name. Steps included pouring nearly $3 billion in “security assistance” (primarily weaponry) into the country since 2014.

The CIA “made a series of covert moves that have helped prepare the Ukrainian security services for the current crisis. Shortly after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, the agency initiated secret paramilitary training programs for Ukrainian special operations personnel in the U.S. and on Ukraine’s former eastern front.”"

Beginning with Clinton and supported by every subsequent Democrat and Republican administration since then, the US and its NATO puppets have moved their military, political, and economic power closer to post-Soviet Russia.

NATO's eastward expansion and the US bipartisan winner-take-all approach has displayed assorted forms, including US-funded "democracy promotion" NGOs which were more deeply involved in Russia's internal politics than similar foreign organizations are permitted to be in the US.

In 1999 NATO bombed Moscow's Slav ally Serbia forcibly detaching its historic province of Kosovo.

In 2008 a US military outpost in former Soviet Georgia (along with Ukraine, one of Putin's "red lines") set off a brief proxy war, and throughout this entire period one-sided negotiations called "selective cooperation" took concessions from Moscow without meaningful US reciprocity and were followed by broken American promises.

 

[Ringo]

 

[badger2]

It was a brilliant move, rare for Carter. It led directly a few years later to the Reagan decision to send Stringer missiles to Afghanistan, which led directly to the Russian withdrawal which led to the dissolution of the USSR, the global nightmare that replaced the Nazi nightmare at the end of WWII.

Carter was, like the current POSPOTUS, a CIA puppet Who was doing what his handlers told him to do. The nightmare includes the theologian's crimes of imagination that have brainwashed Homo sapiens since the Neolithic. As we have seen from world history, to boycott the theologian is by default to boycott the CIA-NATO pathology.

 

[BackAgain]

One can of course understand both NATO and Moscow but that these moves by NATO would result in Moscow going to war is not hard to see. Then there are those in NATO who actually wants this conflict in Ukraine i´m told.

Can we discuss why? Money?

Washington Helped Trigger the Ukraine War

The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA to bolster Ukraine are just now becoming apparent.

www.theamericanconservative.com

"The magnitude of the aggressive moves taken by the Pentagon and CIA are just now becoming apparent.

For years, the Kremlin made it emphatically clear that inviting Ukraine to join NATO would cross a red line that threatened Russia’s vital security interests.

Evidence grew in recent years that the United States had begun to treat Ukraine as a NATO ally in all but name. Steps included pouring nearly $3 billion in “security assistance” (primarily weaponry) into the country since 2014.

The CIA “made a series of covert moves that have helped prepare the Ukrainian security services for the current crisis. Shortly after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, the agency initiated secret paramilitary training programs for Ukrainian special operations personnel in the U.S. and on Ukraine’s former eastern front.”"

Yeah. We can discuss. The thread headline and thesis of the OP is pure bullshit. The Russian propaganda mill is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Ringo]

Yeah. We can discuss. The thread headline and thesis of the OP is pure bullshit.

Because the truth behind the original post is so obvious, those who do not believe in it seem to be naive idiots.

 

[badger2]

Money laundering schemes are simply repeating what they think will be effective for protection racket operations.

'During the first decades of the Cold War, a national leader critical of America could face a CIA-sponsored coup that left him locked up for life (Iran), forced into exile (Guatemala), tortured to death (Congo), or left murdered on the capital's streets (South Vietnam). Apart from coups, which were often difficult to organize, the agency attempted assassinations, which usually failed (Congo, Cuba) but sometimes hit the mark (Dominican Republic). More than any other aspect of foreign policy, those seccret CIA operations clearly violated the national sovereignty assured in the UN Charter, lending an irresolvable ambiguity to the US exercise of global power.

Even the most altruistic of Washington's foreign policy initiatives reflected aspects of that ambiguity. While the Marshall Plan did give Europe $13 billion for postwar reconstruction, recipient nations had to provide the plan's overseas offices with an equivalent amount of local currency -- creating what reporter Tim Weiner called a "global money-laundering scheme" that allowed the CIA to expropriate 5 percent of those funds, totalling $685 million, for its covert operations.'
(To Govern the Globe, pp. 227-8)

 

[BackAgain]

Because the truth behind the original post is so obvious, those who do not believe in it seem to be naive idiots.

No. Believing that crap shows that you are an idiot.

 

[Ringo]

MOSCOW, Apr 10 — RIA Novosti. Kalibr missiles destroyed a large batch of weapons and equipment delivered from the United States and Europe for the Ukrainian military in the Zhytomyr region, Major General Igor Konashenkov, a representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, said.

"High—precision long-range sea-based Kalibr missiles destroyed a large batch of weapons and military equipment delivered from the United States and European countries for the grouping of Ukrainian troops in the Donbas near the Malin railway station in the Zhytomyr region," he said.

The general added that high-precision air-launched missiles destroyed fuel storage facilities at the Odessa Port Plant.

The fuel was intended for armored vehicles of Ukrainian nationalists.

Against the background of the Russian special operation to protect Donbass, which began on February 24, Washington and NATO allies continue to pump Ukraine with weapons. Earlier, the US president signed a lend-lease law simplifying the provision of military assistance to the Ukrainian authorities.

Moscow has repeatedly stated that the supply of Western weapons only delays the conflict, and the transport of weapons becomes a legitimate target.

 

[para bellum]

MOSCOW, Apr 10 — RIA Novosti. Kalibr missiles destroyed a large batch of weapons and equipment delivered from the United States and Europe for the Ukrainian military in the Zhytomyr region, Major General Igor Konashenkov, a representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, said.

April 10, that's probably the last time a cruise missile was used against a military target in Ukraine.

Usually they are used to strike apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, electrical stations, and other municipal buildings.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Silver Cat]

We can work with them now because we first destroyed, then replaced their governments with sane ones that respect international law. You might want to take a hint from that and replace your kleptocratic government with one that actually represents and cares for the Russian people.

Actually, they declare that they do respect international law, and it is NATO (and the USA) who don't respect it. What is even more important - any government that really cares for the Russian people will try to end discrimination and genocide of Russians in Ukraine (including usage of military force) and will try to demilitarize Eastern Europe by the combination of economical, military and diplomatic pressure. The Russians, as well as any other people, don't like when somebody genocide their own kind.