National Security Reasons Not To Legalize Pot: Heroin & Mexico

[Onyx]

Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now.

Destroying the Mexican black market through legalization isn't so bad.

They scramble and kill each other off, and have to look elsewhere to expand their wealth and influence.

What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

Then legalize heroin too.

Legalize all the drugs until the cartels run out of shit to sell.

 

[Onyx]

On the same token, marijuana will never be legalized, there is too much money in the for profit prison industrial complex and Big Pharma going to politicians.

It could be. I will give you a relevant example.

The war on coal is being paid for by alternative energy companies, and the politicized media campaign against alternative energy is being funded by the petroleum industry. The petroleum industry is much larger, and therefore has much more support in the government, but alternative energy has managed to prosper despite attempts organized attempts to destroy it. This is because alternative energy lobbies the Obama administration and many prominent Democrats.

Ruling class politics are not black and white. Often it is not about what is more profitable, but what is more profitable to whom. In Colorado, legalized Marijuana was more profitable to the regions 600 medical marijuana dispensaries, and hundreds of entrepreneurs and venture capitalists eager to start dope empires.

 

[Timmy]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

People start off wh prescribed pills. Turn into addicts . Then go for cheaper heroin.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

People start off wh prescribed pills. Turn into addicts . Then go for cheaper heroin.

Exactly right Timmy. The increase in heroin use is because people go to their doctor for pain and are prescribed opiates. They take them and become addicted, and when their script runs out for the opiates, they turn to heroin to help them with their addiction.

Interestingly enough, opiate overdoses have dropped by over 25 percent since marijuana was legalized in Colorado. They have also had a drop in crime.

And..............was watching the Vice channel the other day, and saw where someone had started a rehab for heroin addicts, and was using marijuana rather than methadone (which addicts call "liquid handcuffs") to try to help them get off of heroin. Now, before you say that is nuts, remember this..............people coming down off of heroin have problems with nausea, joint pain and nervousness and being twitchy. Marijuana has been PROVEN to help with nausea, pain, and also calms people down.

They currently have pretty high success rate. I think that at the time of filming, they had been in place for almost a year and had 6 out of the 10 addicts who had gone through the program as being still sober. 60 percent initial success rate for heroin addicts is pretty impressive. Especially when some of them had been sober for almost a year.

And for the OP to blame the legalization of marijuana for the cartels becoming violent obviously doesn't know anything of their history. They were getting violent in the 80s with the cocaine traffic. Ever heard of a dude named Pablo Escobar? He was one of the first cartel kingpins.

 

[Onyx]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

While theoretically it is possible to progress to recreational heroin through usage of prescription drugs containing opiates, I wouldn't say that is very common.

What do you want congress to do? Ban drugs with opiates in them? Fat chance! They have soldiers guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan for the cartels and pharmaceutical companies as we speak.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

While theoretically it is possible to progress to recreational heroin through usage of prescription drugs containing opiates, I wouldn't say that is very common.

What do you want congress to do? Ban drugs with opiates in them? Fat chance! They have soldiers guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan for the cartels and pharmaceutical companies as we speak.

Actually, becoming addicted to opiates and then transitioning to heroin is more common than what you might think.................

The New Face of Heroin

How is heroin linked to prescription drug abuse?

Unintended consequences: Painkiller pills to heroin - CNN.com

And no, I don't want to see opiate drugs banned. They can help quite a bit if they are used properly. However.............doctors keep their patients on opiates far longer than they really need to. Doctors should look a bit more closely about how they prescribe opiates to people because they can be highly addictive.

Incidentally, opiate medications are Schedule II drugs, heroin is classed as Schedule I (not medically beneficial and highly addictive).

Strangely enough, for some reason the DEA still has marijuana as a Schedule I drug as well.

 

[Onyx]

And no, I don't want to see opiate drugs banned. They can help quite a bit if they are used properly. However.............doctors keep their patients on opiates far longer than they really need to. Doctors should look a bit more closely about how they prescribe opiates to people because they can be highly addictive.

Incidentally, opiate medications are Schedule II drugs, heroin is classed as Schedule I (not medically beneficial and highly addictive).

Strangely enough, for some reason the DEA still has marijuana as a Schedule I drug as well.

Heroin does have practical usage in regards to physical therapy and pain suppression, and is used rarely in other countries.

As always, my opinion is that the government should mind its own ******* business, and stop trying to control markets to favor corporate special interests. If they legalized opium, I'd probably start growing it for sale here.

 

[ABikerSailor]

And no, I don't want to see opiate drugs banned. They can help quite a bit if they are used properly. However.............doctors keep their patients on opiates far longer than they really need to. Doctors should look a bit more closely about how they prescribe opiates to people because they can be highly addictive.

Incidentally, opiate medications are Schedule II drugs, heroin is classed as Schedule I (not medically beneficial and highly addictive).

Strangely enough, for some reason the DEA still has marijuana as a Schedule I drug as well.

Heroin does have practical usage in regards to physical therapy and pain suppression, and is used rarely in other countries.

As always, my opinion is that the government should mind its own ******* business, and stop trying to control markets to favor corporate special interests. If they legalized opium, I'd probably start growing it for sale here.

While heroin is effective as a strong pain killer, and at one time it was used medicinally, because of the addictive effects, doctors went looking for better and safer drugs.

Heroin is Schedule I because of it's addictive qualities, as well as the fact that it is no longer medically beneficial because we have developed safer and more effective drugs.

Me personally? I believe that plants aren't drugs, they're plants. In the Bible, God told Adam that if it grew out of the ground, we could have it. Plants grow out of the ground.

However..........................

Take those same plants and refine them to the point where you have removed everything but the active substance, you have just created a drug. Not only that, but you have also removed the safety valves that are already built into the plant. Think about cocoa leaves.................they are very effective for helping people cope with being at altitude, and they will wake you up like coffee, but nobody has ever become addicted to cocoa leaves. Take those same leaves, and refine them into cocaine, and now not only do you have a drug, but you have a very addictive one as well.

You want to grow opium poppies? Cool. You want to cut the bulb and collect the sap for smoking or ingesting? Same deal.............cool. It's still at the level of being plant material. Potent plant material, but plant material none the less.

Refine it into heroin or opiate medication? It's now become a drug.

 

[oreo]

Yippee! Legal weed for all in the US!! What could go wrong? Answer: it's already going wrong...

As usual the stoner brain only examines the surface of the issue.

Look for, directly proportionately, an increase in heroin sales in the country coming from Mexico as the price of pot plummets with each new legalization and growers free for all (literally) in the US. Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now. In your Bob Marley fog, you might not have noticed that when our allies are going broke lately, we can't afford to bail them out. And so, they go asking to Russia and China for handouts. Or the rich arab oil nations...

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You may not like black markets but all in all pot is one of the tamest. And they are real markets with real impacts. Mexico leans heavily on supplying the US with party materials and they always have. It's your choice what substance is most valuable for them to do that with to save their economy. If it can be grown in the ground, they will do it, refine it and bring it here no matter how deadly dangerous it is.

Our heroin epidemic is a real killer, claiming and destroying lives right and left exponentially. I'd much rather trade that for skulking pot dealers here and there and an increase in donuts and twinkie sales.

Monday, 11 Jan 2016 The growing legalization of marijuana in the United States could be starting to put the pinch on one of the biggest exporters of weed through the years to this country: Mexican drug farmers. Is legal pot putting Mexico out of business?

Nov. 15, 2015, A report issued this summer by the Centers for Disease Control found the number of heroin users in the US had grown by almost 300,000 over the last decade, and the increase has occurred among men and women in almost every age group and at all income levels....“Most of the heroin available in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia,” the DEA notes in its report. We have a clearer picture of who's fueling the US heroin epidemic — and how they're doing it

What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

It's just such an amazing coincidence. Do you think the two situations could be even remotely related to each other?

I live in Colorado and I can tell you right now, you've got you're head up your ass.

1. The reason to legalize pot, is to keep out of violent Mexican Drug cartel's hands.
2. Mexico has the begged the United States to legalize pot, because they grow it on the cheap down there, bring it up here to sell it, take the profits from the pot, and use that money to invest in Cocaine, Crack and Heroin manufacturing, and then bring it back up here to spread around.

FACTS IN COLORADO.
1. There has been no violent crime associated with legal pot.
2. The State treasury has filled up with over 126 million in tax revenues in 1 years time.
3. There are no related traffic accidents or deaths associated with legal marijuana in this state.
4. It has provided thousands of good paying jobs in this state.
5. It hasn't hurt anyone.
6. No one has ever has ever ended up in an emergency room and or died from an overdose of marijuana, and you certainly cannot say that about our legal drugs alcohol, tobacco, and legal prescription pain pills, which is the number one source today of drug addiction and death.
7. It in fact does have medical benefits for those with chronic pain, crone's disease, cancer, siezures and other chronic illness's and diseases.
8. Marijuana is safer than aspirin--and it alleviates the need to take powerful addictive prescription pain pills.

There is a plant that is called Charlotte's Web that in grown & cultivated in Colorado and is only given to people & children with severe seizures that works. There are parents that have moved to Colorado just to get this to save their child's lives, and we have seen kids that may have had 80 seizures a day go down to 2 a day with a couple of drops in liquid.
http://time.com/3264691/m
edical-marijauna-epilepsy-research-charlottes-web-study/

You have been told for decades that marijuana is just a gateway drug to harder drugs, and I say to you that one beer is a gateway to Alcoholism.

The biggest lobbyist's against marijuana?
1. Law enforcement--it's an easy bust, and most people who use marijuana are not violent.
2. The Pharmaceutical industry--and for good reason. Something you can grow in your backyard that could wipe out half of your medicine cabinet would hit them hard in the wallet.

This is NOT a democrat/republican party line issue. Solid Red counties, including the church capital of the United States, Colorado Springs voted to legalize marijuana. Alaska is solid red and they legalized it.

Educate yourself and pass it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well said Oreo.

 

[Onyx]

Me personally? I believe that plants aren't drugs, they're plants. In the Bible, God told Adam that if it grew out of the ground, we could have it. Plants grow out of the ground.

However..........................

I believe that the term drugs is a social construction, and your criteria for what is and is not a drug is arbitrary.

My abstract opinion, is that I don't ******* care. Allow people to put whatever they want in their body.

ake those same plants and refine them to the point where you have removed everything but the active substance, you have just created a drug. Not only that, but you have also removed the safety valves that are already built into the plant. Think about cocoa leaves.................they are very effective for helping people cope with being at altitude, and they will wake you up like coffee, but nobody has ever become addicted to cocoa leaves. Take those same leaves, and refine them into cocaine, and now not only do you have a drug, but you have a very addictive one as well.

Anything that has taste can be addictive in a sense.

What you need to be careful of are substances that can bypass the brain-blood barrier. Those are what form physical dependence.

You want to grow opium poppies? Cool. You want to cut the bulb and collect the sap for smoking or ingesting? Same deal.............cool. It's still at the level of being plant material. Potent plant material, but plant material none the less.

Refine it into heroin or opiate medication? It's now become a drug.

Hell, I'd start an opium den and get loaded with cash.

Opiate manufactured drugs like Heroin are great. They sell with excellent margins, are highly addictive, and require continuous consumption. I could eventually renovate the place into a prostitution ring, since I could easily get some druggies to sell themselves to pay for their addiction.

 

[Silhouette]

^^ See, Onyx is demonstrating perfectly the mindset of the cartels upset about pot becoming free in the US ^^

 

[Silhouette]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

While theoretically it is possible to progress to recreational heroin through usage of prescription drugs containing opiates, I wouldn't say that is very common.

What do you want congress to do? Ban drugs with opiates in them? Fat chance! They have soldiers guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan for the cartels and pharmaceutical companies as we speak.

Yes but that lucrative trade is in jeopardy as the Mexican and Columbian cartels flood the markets with their own opiate supply. And all of that was spurred on by pot becoming legal. The Mexicans have been getting fat off pot sales in the US for decades and suddenly that rug was pulled out from under them. What else would we suppose they would do? Teach nursery school or lay bricks? No. They'll do what they've always done: run agricultural goodies across the border for the party kids. They don't give a fig what the substance is; so long as it makes them money they're used to making.

The US economy is huge. So huge in fact that many satellite countries are instantly and directly affected by our fluctuating markets. Legal pot sent a wrecking ball into the Mexican economy just as terrorism is escalating. All as we worry about our Southern border being the most vulnerable to terrorist infiltration. So we'd do well not to ruffle Mexico's feathers so harshly. And we'd do even better if people in the US weren't so massively ignorant and self-centered that they have no concept of how our policies are boot-kicking our allies in the gut.

Here's a typical American: "me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me..."

And did I mention that we have also the largest nuclear arsenal in the world? No wonder people both fear and hate us at the same time around the world. Just because they're groveling at our feet doesn't mean we should take advantage of that until the extreme boundaries of hubris are shattered beyond repair.

We HAVE to draw our endless self-absorption up short at some point. I just prefer it to be before we've alienated our last ally, and not after...

 

[LaDexter]

And all of that was spurred on by pot becoming legal.

BULLSHIT


That's just spin from those who hate legalized pot - the lawyers, the cop union bosses, the prison union bosses, everyone who makes money hand over fist from pot prohibition.

 

[BlindBoo]

^^ See, Onyx is demonstrating perfectly the mindset of the cartels upset about pot becoming free in the US ^^

Free? Where?

I mean sure you could buy some seeds from Amsterdam and set up a little grow room in your own house and have the finest smoke year round, but it still costs time, supplies and a little electricity, so if there is some kind bud out there that is free, do tell!!!!!!!

 

[BlindBoo]

The heroin problem is caused by the opioid pushing drug companies . Pusdy congress does nothing about it.

While theoretically it is possible to progress to recreational heroin through usage of prescription drugs containing opiates, I wouldn't say that is very common.

What do you want congress to do? Ban drugs with opiates in them? Fat chance! They have soldiers guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan for the cartels and pharmaceutical companies as we speak.

Yes but that lucrative trade is in jeopardy as the Mexican and Columbian cartels flood the markets with their own opiate supply. And all of that was spurred on by pot becoming legal. The Mexicans have been getting fat off pot sales in the US for decades and suddenly that rug was pulled out from under them. What else would we suppose they would do? Teach nursery school or lay bricks? No. They'll do what they've always done: run agricultural goodies across the border for the party kids. They don't give a fig what the substance is; so long as it makes them money they're used to making.

The price for legal weed is high compared to the Mexican Dirt-weed they sell. Still there is a market for that shit in many states.

 

[Syriusly]

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You really don't have a clue.

The drug lords in Mexico started pushing heroin into the U.S. long ago- it is more lucrative and easier to smuggle across the border.

Why specifically do you want America to be funding drug lords? Because you apparently think that all of our pot money is going to Mexican drug lords and think that is a good thing.

 

[Syriusly]

in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....

So you're in favor of a national heroin epidemic. .

Read up about the heroin epidemic and its causes- it is almost exclusively because of addiction to pain killers- and heroin already being cheaper than legal prescriptions drugs.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Reality is to look back at Prohibition and how exactly did that work out for us? Oh yeah, thousands died, the government was corrupted by the booze lords, and innocent people died.

Sound familiar?

Yeah- anyone who has read about the history of Prohibition should be against the 'war on drugs'- the parallels are pretty straightforward

1. a huge demand creates a black market
2. the black market drives the creation of organized crime to exploit the huge profits to be made
3. the organized crime groups both corrupt the system and are very violent battling for the money.
4. meanwhile Americans die from tainted drugs- just as they died from bad alcohol.
5. And money goes from Americans to drug lords.

 

[Pop23]

OK?

So if we make Pot illegal, then Mexico will ignore the very profitable Heroin Trade?

Pot users are not automatically going to move on to Heroin.

Your theory is flawed. Pot is not a gateway drug to Heroin.

Opiods are the Gateway Drug. Eliminate them, and you destroy much of the Heroin trade.