National Security Reasons Not To Legalize Pot: Heroin & Mexico

Silhouette

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Yippee! Legal weed for all in the US!! What could go wrong? Answer: it's already going wrong...

As usual the stoner brain only examines the surface of the issue.

Look for, directly proportionately, an increase in heroin sales in the country coming from Mexico as the price of pot plummets with each new legalization and growers free for all (literally) in the US. Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now. In your Bob Marley fog, :smoke: :uhoh3: you might not have noticed that when our allies are going broke lately, we can't afford to bail them out. And so, they go asking to Russia and China for handouts. Or the rich arab oil nations...

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You may not like black markets but all in all pot is one of the tamest. And they are real markets with real impacts. Mexico leans heavily on supplying the US with party materials and they always have. It's your choice what substance is most valuable for them to do that with to save their economy. If it can be grown in the ground, they will do it, refine it and bring it here no matter how deadly dangerous it is.

Our heroin epidemic is a real killer, claiming and destroying lives right and left exponentially. I'd much rather trade that for skulking pot dealers here and there and an increase in donuts and twinkie sales.

Monday, 11 Jan 2016 The growing legalization of marijuana in the United States could be starting to put the pinch on one of the biggest exporters of weed through the years to this country: Mexican drug farmers. Is legal pot putting Mexico out of business?
Nov. 15, 2015, A report issued this summer by the Centers for Disease Control found the number of heroin users in the US had grown by almost 300,000 over the last decade, and the increase has occurred among men and women in almost every age group and at all income levels....“Most of the heroin available in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia,” the DEA notes in its report. We have a clearer picture of who's fueling the US heroin epidemic — and how they're doing it
What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

It's just such an amazing coincidence. Do you think the two situations could be even remotely related to each other? :eusa_think: :desk:
 
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Harry Dresden

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in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....
 
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Silhouette

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in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....
So you're in favor of a national heroin epidemic. OK, gotcha. It's not every day the US has such a golden opportunity to ransack itself and the Mexican economy all in one fell swoop.

I wonder if the FDA has the power to shut down something touted as a medicine if it doesn't meet certain standards. I'm sure Monsanto will move in and seize the markets; like they always do. Yummy, pot laced with roundup & genetically modified. Poor Mexico; though they too were famous for dumping pesticides on their pot; before the US collapsed 1/4 of their economy and they had to turn to selling way more addictive heroin to make up the deficit.

Your choice. Pot or heroin. Because Mexico will import one or the other depending on market value.
 
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MisterBeale

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in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....
So you're in favor of a national heroin epidemic. OK, gotcha. It's not every day the US has such a golden opportunity to ransack itself and the Mexican economy all in one fell swoop.

I wonder if the FDA has the power to shut down something touted as a medicine if it doesn't meet certain standards. I'm sure Monsanto will move in and seize the markets; like they always do. Yummy, pot laced with roundup & genetically modified. Poor Mexico; though they too were famous for dumping pesticides on their pot.
If you are worried about the quality of the dope, start an organic dope farm.

As far as the opium coming in? That's the fault of uncle sam.
 
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Silhouette

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If you are worried about the quality of the dope, start an organic dope farm.

As far as the opium coming in? That's the fault of uncle sam.
^^ completely ignoring the political ramifications of heroin use in the US increasing and sacking the Mexican economy, forcing it to push heroin on our kids.
 

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If you are worried about the quality of the dope, start an organic dope farm.

As far as the opium coming in? That's the fault of uncle sam.
^^ completely ignoring the political ramifications of heroin use in the US increasing and sacking the Mexican economy, forcing it to push heroin on our kids.
Not ignoring, I'm just pointing out, that your solution is wrong.

Stop having the CIA and army protect Opium growers.

Stop having the CIA traffic the shit to pad black op budgets.

On the same token, marijuana will never be legalized, there is too much money in the for profit prison industrial complex and Big Pharma going to politicians.

It doesn't matter what the voters want, they aren't funding the politicians. Marijuana will never be reclassified as a legitimate medical therepy, or reclassified as a less harmful drug. There are too many monied interests arrayed against it. It doesn't matter what the science or population desire.
 
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Silhouette

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Well it's this:



Or this:



Which one do you want Mexico to use to prop up their economy?
 

FA_Q2

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Wow, you are trying to justify keeping pot illegal because it would hurt the cartels? The depths of insanity that some will go to justify their chosen government power.

Then claiming heroine will replace pot. That does not even make sense let alone follow logically.
 

westwall

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Yippee! Legal weed for all in the US!! What could go wrong? Answer: it's already going wrong...

As usual the stoner brain only examines the surface of the issue.

Look for, directly proportionately, an increase in heroin sales in the country coming from Mexico as the price of pot plummets with each new legalization and growers free for all (literally) in the US. Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now. In your Bob Marley fog, :smoke: :uhoh3: you might not have noticed that when our allies are going broke lately, we can't afford to bail them out. And so, they go asking to Russia and China for handouts. Or the rich arab oil nations...

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You may not like black markets but all in all pot is one of the tamest. And they are real markets with real impacts. Mexico leans heavily on supplying the US with party materials and they always have. It's your choice what substance is most valuable for them to do that with to save their economy. If it can be grown in the ground, they will do it, refine it and bring it here no matter how deadly dangerous it is.

Our heroin epidemic is a real killer, claiming and destroying lives right and left exponentially. I'd much rather trade that for skulking pot dealers here and there and an increase in donuts and twinkie sales.

Monday, 11 Jan 2016 The growing legalization of marijuana in the United States could be starting to put the pinch on one of the biggest exporters of weed through the years to this country: Mexican drug farmers. Is legal pot putting Mexico out of business?
Nov. 15, 2015, A report issued this summer by the Centers for Disease Control found the number of heroin users in the US had grown by almost 300,000 over the last decade, and the increase has occurred among men and women in almost every age group and at all income levels....“Most of the heroin available in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia,” the DEA notes in its report. We have a clearer picture of who's fueling the US heroin epidemic — and how they're doing it
What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

It's just such an amazing coincidence. Do you think the two situations could be even remotely related to each other? :eusa_think: :desk:




Everything you just posted is why we SHOULD legalize the drug. Instantaneously the drug cartels are out of business. Violent crime would drop across the board. You think this is bad?
 

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in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....
So you're in favor of a national heroin epidemic. OK, gotcha. It's not every day the US has such a golden opportunity to ransack itself and the Mexican economy all in one fell swoop.

I wonder if the FDA has the power to shut down something touted as a medicine if it doesn't meet certain standards. I'm sure Monsanto will move in and seize the markets; like they always do. Yummy, pot laced with roundup & genetically modified. Poor Mexico; though they too were famous for dumping pesticides on their pot; before the US collapsed 1/4 of their economy and they had to turn to selling way more addictive heroin to make up the deficit.

Your choice. Pot or heroin. Because Mexico will import one or the other depending on market value.
That is a false choice. Different clientele. US grown pot will be much safer than whatever crap in a baggy existed before. Think Anheiser Busch. You are all panicked about Mexico, but Mexico has stolen our industries. Not like they are gonna have CHINESE factories in Juarez anytime soon. Don't worry so much. They will probably adjust by legalizing pot in Mexico. And have a swell little domestic market down there.
 
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Silhouette

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Wow, you are trying to justify keeping pot illegal because it would hurt the cartels? The depths of insanity that some will go to justify their chosen government power.

Then claiming heroine will replace pot. That does not even make sense let alone follow logically.
No idiot. I'm just pointing out the REALITY of the situation politically and economically. If you want to find your kids dead of a heroin overdose because some hippies wanted free pot in the US, you can just keep that old head of yours in the sand. Reality exists. Accept it or face the horrible consequences.

Liberals are the stupidest bunch of utopian retards I can think of. Pot was 1/4 of the Mexican economy before the US started to legalize it. And, being very resourceful, they will tap the same "naughty kids" who used to sneak away to smoke pot here, only instead pushing heroin. The trouble is, once heroin takes a bite out of you, there's no growing out of it. There is only death.
 
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Everything you just posted is why we SHOULD legalize the drug. Instantaneously the drug cartels are out of business. Violent crime would drop across the board. You think this is bad?
Damn you're naive. You think your simplistic solution will make all those drug cartels just vaporize in the thin air..after generations of making their living selling their black market substances in the US. Just waive your magic fairy wand will you and *voila!* they're all going to get jobs making tacos at their local mercado eh?

Nope, it's already well under way. They simply switched to heroin. It's trickier to make, but then that makes it more expensive. I'm sure they'd rather be making bank like they used to with the infinitely more benign MJ, but we set the terms and they will just keep playing the game they've always played. ie; making money selling whatever black market drug is most valuable in the US and is easiest to grow or make.
 
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Silhouette

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That is a false choice. Different clientele. .
Well maybe you should read the link in the OP about the CDC study on the escalating heroin use in the US and which demographics are affected. They are the same as pot users. I always try to rely on facts instead of propaganda when examining a situation under a microscope.
 

westwall

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Everything you just posted is why we SHOULD legalize the drug. Instantaneously the drug cartels are out of business. Violent crime would drop across the board. You think this is bad?
Damn you're naive. You think your simplistic solution will make all those drug cartels just vaporize in the thin air..after generations of making their living selling their black market substances in the US. Just waive your magic fairy wand will you and *voila!* they're all going to get jobs making tacos at their local mercado eh?

Nope, it's already well under way. They simply switched to heroin. It's trickier to make, but then that makes it more expensive. I'm sure they'd rather be making bank like they used to with the infinitely more benign MJ, but we set the terms and they will just keep playing the game they've always played. ie; making money selling whatever black market drug is most valuable in the US and is easiest to grow or make.





That's why ALL drugs should be decriminalized. Punish the criminal misuse of drugs, think driving while under the influence, providing drugs to juveniles etc. but the drug war is nothing more than a war on civil liberties. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed, many of them completely innocent bystanders because of this imbecilic policy. The drug war is an abject failure save for the drug cartels, and the prison lobby.
 

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Wow, you are trying to justify keeping pot illegal because it would hurt the cartels? The depths of insanity that some will go to justify their chosen government power.

Then claiming heroine will replace pot. That does not even make sense let alone follow logically.
No idiot. I'm just pointing out the REALITY of the situation politically and economically. If you want to find your kids dead of a heroin overdose because some hippies wanted free pot in the US, you can just keep that old head of yours in the sand. Reality exists. Accept it or face the horrible consequences.

Liberals are the stupidest bunch of utopian retards I can think of. Pot was 1/4 of the Mexican economy before the US started to legalize it. And, being very resourceful, they will tap the same "naughty kids" who used to sneak away to smoke pot here, only instead pushing heroin. The trouble is, once heroin takes a bite out of you, there's no growing out of it. There is only death.
Reality does not match your silly fantasies. We have clear examples of reality in prohibition on alcohol that failed and its legalization that did not cause anything but a reduction in crime.
 

Harry Dresden

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in another ten years the feds will have decriminalize it and every state will be med pot and half the country will legalize it .....you are paddling against the current.....
So you're in favor of a national heroin epidemic. OK, gotcha. It's not every day the US has such a golden opportunity to ransack itself and the Mexican economy all in one fell swoop.

I wonder if the FDA has the power to shut down something touted as a medicine if it doesn't meet certain standards. I'm sure Monsanto will move in and seize the markets; like they always do. Yummy, pot laced with roundup & genetically modified. Poor Mexico; though they too were famous for dumping pesticides on their pot; before the US collapsed 1/4 of their economy and they had to turn to selling way more addictive heroin to make up the deficit.

Your choice. Pot or heroin. Because Mexico will import one or the other depending on market value.
your unfounded paranoia is noted....and i will tell you what,when the powers that be make alcohol and cigarettes,2 things proven to destroy lives, illegal,i will then back a pot ban,until then i back decriminalizing it...
 
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That's why ALL drugs should be decriminalized. Punish the criminal misuse of drugs, think driving while under the influence, providing drugs to juveniles etc. but the drug war is nothing more than a war on civil liberties. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed, many of them completely innocent bystanders because of this imbecilic policy. The drug war is an abject failure save for the drug cartels, and the prison lobby.
So now your utopian ideal is to go from zero to 60 in less than a nanosecond politically? Do you propose eliminating the FDA as well? Maybe issuing a magic carpet and gilded slippers for everyone to walk through the enchanted unicorn forest with?

In the meantime, where gritty and unfortunate reality exist, we will have the Mexican and Columbian cartels filling a huge gap created in those countries' economies by the legalizing of pot in the US. If you think Hard H is going to become available in the corner drugstore for little Jimmy and Janie to play "hey mister!" to get adults to buy it for them legally, you're well...high...

There are so many problems with your lack of a grip on reality in this regard, that it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say that my post on page one with the two photos is what reality will boil all it down into: Choose one or the other.

Another poster mentioned how devastating legal tobacco and alcohol are to our people. I completely agree. But the "logic" the poster insists the reader engage in is absurd. "Since those things are fucked up and legal, all things fucked up should be legal and we'll just cross our fingers and hope it all works out". It's like saying 'well, we have two rattlesnakes in the house, we might as well let in a hundred more. What does it matter now?' How it matters is that you increase everyone's chances of getting bit, the more snakes you let in. Especially little kids who like to play in low places where the snakes are lurking.
 
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westwall

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That's why ALL drugs should be decriminalized. Punish the criminal misuse of drugs, think driving while under the influence, providing drugs to juveniles etc. but the drug war is nothing more than a war on civil liberties. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed, many of them completely innocent bystanders because of this imbecilic policy. The drug war is an abject failure save for the drug cartels, and the prison lobby.
So now your utopian ideal is to go from zero to 60 in less than a nanosecond politically? Do you propose eliminating the FDA as well? Maybe issuing a magic carpet and gilded slippers for everyone to walk through the enchanted unicorn forest with?

In the meantime, where gritty and unfortunate reality exist, we will have the Mexican and Columbian cartels filling a huge gap created in those countries' economies by the legalizing of pot in the US. If you think Hard H is going to become available in the corner drugstore for little Jimmy and Janie to play "hey mister!" to get adults to buy it for them legally, you're well...high...

There are so many problems with your lack of a grip on reality in this regard, that it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say that my post on page one with the two photos is what reality will boil all it down into: Choose one or the other.

Another poster mentioned how devastating legal tobacco and alcohol are to our people. I completely agree. But the "logic" the poster insists the reader engage in is absurd. "Since those things are fucked up and legal, all things fucked up should be legal and we'll just cross our fingers and hope it all works out". It's like saying 'well, we have two rattlesnakes in the house, we might as well let in a hundred more. What does it matter now?' How it matters is that you increase everyone's chances of getting bit, the more snakes you let in. Especially little kids who like to play in low places where the snakes are lurking.





It won't. But economically, morally, and civil liberty wise it would be far better to decriminalize all drugs, thus putting an entire government/cartel industry out of business. It would restore civil liberties that have been whittled away, it would actually reduce drug abuse, and those who are afflicted could get help and not be saddled with a criminal record which harms them for the duration of their lives. No innocent children being murdered in drug fueled turf wars etc.

The net gain for all of society would be huge.
 
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Silhouette

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t economically, morally, and civil liberty wise it would be far better to decriminalize all drugs, thus putting an entire government/cartel industry out of business.
.
The government you'd be putting out of business is Mexico. Nature abhors a vacuum and so the Russians, Chinese and ME oil countries will fill it. Hardly in the interest of our national security. But then if we're all laced up on any legal drug we like, we won't notice or care that we will cease to exist shortly as a nation.

Also your system demands extraordinary amounts of self control when it comes to personal indulgences. The homo sapiens I know here on planet of the apes is more akin to the TV show "my 600lb life" than they are to Ghandi's or the Buddha's teachings. Yet somehow that reality hasn't seeped into your equation. Maybe you have self-control where you think your utopia will work. But I can guarantee you that 90% of the rest of the country do not. That's something you might want to ponder for awhile. The same people guzzling beer and smoking 2 packs a day (know of any of those?) of cigarettes are the same folks who will be using that same self control to any other legal drug they can get ahold of at the market.

That's why I included "national security" in my title. When it is concerned, those in charge of it with brains (are there any left?) cut out the fluff and wishful thinking and get down to the brass tacks of what actually lays before them. And they apply logic. Or at least they used to. I think the machine is on auto-pilot these days. The lights are on in the Office but nobody is there.
 
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