My view on why our economy is pure shit.

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Dude your whackjobbery is showing.
So the deregulation of the CMBS market had no effect?
Because less regulation is always better, right?

Heinous whackjobbery is always easy to spot.

what??????If I said it had no effect I'll pay you $10,000. Bet???? or admit you fooled yourself with a giant strawman

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So what do you blame the Conservative Republicans for, in all that?

Just curious as to the objectivity here.

How could I blame Conservatives or Libertarians since they are obviously on the side of self-correcting free markets?? Try to think, the soviet model had no means to self-correct so it never did. It is only the Republican free market that is designed to self-correct. America has performed the best because it has a means to self- correct, i.e., the free market.


As an independent this will be over your head but try as hard as you can to follow along:

In a free market if you buy a rotten apple today, tomorrow you will be more cautious and tell your friends to be more cautious so the rotten apple problem is corrected rather than spread to engulf the entire country.

With the liberal soviet regulatory model there is a government regulatory monopoly so any problems, and there will always be problems, are instantly national problems (like the recent housing problem) that leaves the entire nation hungry thanks to nationally rotten apples.

Capitalism works so incredibly because the vast majority of all decisions are left to 300 million consumer regulators who are relative regulatory experts on their own well being. They are infinitely better than a few monopolist bureaucrat regulators in Washington. China, for example, instantly saved 30 million from slow starvation by massive deregulation.


Still too complex for you??

 

[Uncensored2008]

I gotta tell you - starting a fire is a pretty normal thing to do. Throwing dynamite on a fire.... that's fairly extreme.

No matter how normal the doctor told you it is, setting fire to the bed while your parents slept, ain't normal.....

 

[IndependntLogic]

So what do you blame the Conservative Republicans for, in all that?

Just curious as to the objectivity here.

How could I blame Conservatives or Libertarians since they are obviously on the side of self-correcting free markets??

So then if markets correct themselves, deregulation is A<LWAYS a good thing? Like deregulating the CMBS market for example? Or the Junk Bond and Thrift & Loan market that was deregulated jst before the last big recession? Or the Stock market the was deregulated just before the Depression? So basically, the Libertarian Mantra is "Hey, the market will correct itself. The only price is that millions of Americans will lose everything they own.... or their health.... or their lives...."

Try to think, the soviet model had no means to self-correct so it never did. It is only the Republican free market that is designed to self-correct. America has performed the best because it has a means to self- correct, i.e., the free market.

By that logic, the countries with the least amount of government regulation and the greatest amount of market freedom, would be the best places to live, right?


As an independent this will be over your head but try as hard as you can to follow along:

You know, when you first started your insults, I should not have followed suit. Let's try to be more civil. At least I will. YOu do what you want.

In a free market if you buy a rotten apple today, tomorrow you will be more cautious and tell your friends to be more cautious so the rotten apple problem is corrected rather than spread to engulf the entire country.

Hmmm. Well I've read Libertarian literature and as long as there aren't things like corrupt companies, cover-ups etc... that theory works. The problem is, you don't even know why I won't do business with Skadden Arps.

With the liberal soviet regulatory model there is a government regulatory monopoly so any problems, and there will always be problems, are instantly national problems (like the recent housing problem) that leaves the entire nation hungry thanks to nationally rotten apples.

Um no that's just wrong. Do you consider a lack of adequate flood protection a problem in your area? How about poor roads? Insufficient number of libraries? Oh yeah that's right. Libertarian. There should be no libraries. Forgot.

Capitalism works so incredibly because the vast majority of all decisions are left to 300 million consumer regulators who are relative regulatory experts on their own well being.
Fine. Then you be able to easily tell me why my friends at Salk can't inject organic nanobots that have plaque identifiers, into humans. So why? Want to discuss recombinant DNA applications? How about something easy. Seretonin inhibitors? Cant' wait to hear from a "consumer expert"!!

They are infinitely better than a few monopolist bureaucrat regulators in Washington. China, for example, instantly saved 30 million from slow starvation by massive deregulation.


Still too complex for you??

LOL! So lemme get this straight. You're using CHINA as an example of a "Free Market"???
I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh but seriously, change channels once in a while.
My clients include Allen & Overy, Jones Day, Bingham McCutcheon etc... You know, those fine folks in Beijung, Shanghai, Hong Kong etc... So I do business there.
200,000,000 people there live on a dollar a day or less. You know what most of them are called? Employees.
Virtually all the businesses are owned at least in part, by government ministers.
They get HUGE financial help from the government (after all, the politicians get rich from it).
Safety & health regulations? LOL!!!! Did you see the olympics? Remember the athletes walking around with masks on?

So while you try to look clever by regurgitating FOX sound bites or whoever told you the largest Socialist country in the world is an example of the "wonders of the Free Market", knew that their audience was ignorant on the subject.

But hey, I could be wrong. I look forward to your replies and also how you have gleaned your expertise on China, as well as the other things I mentioned...

 

[samjones]

100% of the energy for freedom has been in the Republican party since Jefferson.

This is the same kind of jingoistic self-serving bullshit that Ron Paul uses all the time. It appeals to the sliver of conservatives who support Paul and is totally off-putting to everyone else. Paul believes that right makes might and that his if he maintains his passion for his position he will prevail. I believe that makes him the single biggest fool I have ever seen on the national stage and those who support him are just out-of-touch and ridiculous and are simply wasting their own time and everyone elses.

 

[editec]

100% of the energy for freedom has been in the Republican party since Jefferson.

This is the same kind of jingoistic self-serving bullshit that Ron Paul uses all the time. It appeals to the sliver of conservatives who support Paul and is totally off-putting to everyone else. Paul believes that right makes might and that his if he maintains his passion for his position he will prevail. I believe that makes him the single biggest fool I have ever seen on the national stage and those who support him are just out-of-touch and ridiculous and are simply wasting their own time and everyone elses.

When all one has is JINGO, you're likely to use it whenever the facts don't jibe with your POV.


I like Ed because he cares about things economic and often brings real data and analysis to this partisan's circlejerking board.

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

 

[samjones]

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology..

Or rather, when faced with a reality that incoveniently does not match his idealogy he simply insists that the opposite of reality is actually what happened.

Fact: The housing bubble happened entirely on the Republican watch. They had the White House and both houses of Congress.

Fact: It would have been easy for GWB to change direction on CRA and subprime loans. He only would have had to call Al Jackson and have him tell Fan/Fred to stop buying the subprimes. More basic fact - if he didn't want Fan/Fred helping low/moderate income buyers he never would have appointed Al in the first place.

Fact: GWB was big on helping the little guy throughout his presidency. This was the emphasis in most his speeches - arguing for better education for low iincome areas, more funding for junior colleges, more community service, etc. Low income home ownership was part and parcel of his agenday.

Fact: GWB could have easily oustered Greenspan if he wanted to and he was the one who went out of his way to actually appoint Benanke.

Fact: Fan/Fred's owners are executives of the same large banks that Fan/Fred was buying the subprimes from. Fan/Fred's Board was comprised of people appointed for politcaiily motivated reasons. Names you'd recognize, like Buckley and Daley. If the subprime crash was a crime then it was at best a crime of collusion and more probably an out and out conspiracy of theft to defraud the American people of billions of dollars. If there were a quest for justice we would be asking if everyone on Fan/Fred's Board might not be put through the same scrutiny that Bernie Madoff was.

Being a Democrat does not absolve one of any guilt in this attack on the American people, but there is ZERO reason to consider Democrats to be the cause of this catastrophe. The Republicans did it and there motivation couldn't be more clear. Profit.

These are the facts that caise people like Ed to spout off about Thomas Jefferson and "Freedom" and "Liberty" and other topics that have nothing to do with financial crisis of '08.

 

[Uncensored2008]

When all one has is JINGO, you're likely to use it whenever the facts don't jibe with your POV.


I like Ed because he cares about things economic and often brings real data and analysis to this partisan's circlejerking board.

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

That happens a great deal around here, on both sides of the aisles.

 

[samjones]

When all one has is JINGO, you're likely to use it whenever the facts don't jibe with your POV.


I like Ed because he cares about things economic and often brings real data and analysis to this partisan's circlejerking board.

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

That happens a great deal around here, on both sides of the aisles.

This seems to be the canned response from the Ron Paul Whackjobs. They basically take a "black is white" approach to the multitude of facts that do not favor their unrealistic and irrelevant agenda and when confronted with their own flawed reasoning they use the "everbody does it" excuse.

It's formlaic for them. Fortunately it's harmless since they wil never, ever, ever have any influence on the political process. Appealing to a small minority of vocal nutjobs doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This seems to be the canned response from the Ron Paul Whackjobs. They basically take a "black is white" approach to the multitude of facts that do not favor their unrealistic and irrelevant agenda and when confronted with their own flawed reasoning they use the "everbody does it" excuse.

Funny Sam, I find your blanket attacks on Paul and his supporters to be a perfect example.

There are some things I agree with Paul on, some I don't. The vitriol you spew is the reaction of a fool.

It's formlaic for them. Fortunately it's harmless since they wil never, ever, ever have any influence on the political process. Appealing to a small minority of vocal nutjobs doesn't get you anywhere.

I recall the same claim regarding the Tea Parties.

The fact is, that Libertarian thought is gaining ground. Not that Ron Paul will win a presidential bid. No, Libertarian thought is gaining ground among mainstream politicians. This is part of the reason we are polarizing as a nation. The left is moving sharply leftward under the banner of Obama, while the right is adopting more Libertarian ideals, which don't easily compromise with the authoritarian leanings of the Obama camp.

 

[samjones]

The left is moving sharply leftward under the banner of Obama, while the right is adopting more Libertarian ideals, which don't easily compromise with the authoritarian leanings of the Obama camp.

Then the right is truly doomed. I can kindof see Mitt or Rick as a presidential candidate. Ron Paul is such a kook that he can't stop spouting off his bizarre idealogies even when asked a direct question about the issues that are facing this nation right now. Nobody but a small sliver of the ultra right wing would ever support 95% of what Ron Paul stands for because it would put us in the poor house.

We're not going back to a gold standard

We're not ending all entitlements

We're not cutting 90% of government spending

We're not going to implement dramatic protectionist and isoloationist policies.

It just isn't going to happen. Period. Doesn't matter how much Ron Paul rants. If you want to waste your time supporting him, go ahead. I can't see how it could do any harm.

 

[IndependntLogic]

100% of the energy for freedom has been in the Republican party since Jefferson.

This is the same kind of jingoistic self-serving bullshit that Ron Paul uses all the time. It appeals to the sliver of conservatives who support Paul and is totally off-putting to everyone else. Paul believes that right makes might and that his if he maintains his passion for his position he will prevail. I believe that makes him the single biggest fool I have ever seen on the national stage and those who support him are just out-of-touch and ridiculous and are simply wasting their own time and everyone elses.

When all one has is JINGO, you're likely to use it whenever the facts don't jibe with your POV.


I like Ed because he cares about things economic and often brings real data and analysis to this partisan's circlejerking board.

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

Well sadly, I think he's gone from this thread. A bunch of facts and such have been brought up.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Nobody but a small sliver of the ultra right wing would ever support 95% of what Ron Paul stands for because it would put us in the poor house.

perfectly idiotic and liberal of course:

1) all of our Founders, particularly the Republicans, founded the country on the libertarian concept of freedom from liberal government.

2) of course if freedom would make us poor you would not be so afraid to explain how, exactly. Its like saying a warm blanket would make us cold. We're the richest not because of the Girl Scout, but precisely because we've had the most freedom.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It just isn't going to happen. Period. Doesn't matter how much Ron Paul rants.

of course thats perfectly idiotic and liberal as usual. It doesn't matter that its unlikely to happen any time soon. It matters that Aristotle's ideas were picked up and promoted for 2000 years before America was finally founded on his ideas.

It matters if ideas are correct not if slow liberals can understand them.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

of course that is a silly lie or you would not be so afraid to point out one good example for the whole world to see.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Sadly he sees economics through those rose colored partisan's glasses that tend to filter out the facts that don't fit in with his ideology.

.

of course that is a silly lie or you would not be so afraid to point out one good example for the whole world to see.

I see you're back! Welcome back Ed. So did you just happen to miss my post in which I addressed every one of your points directly and without insult? I will be curious to read your well-reasoned, logical, fact supported replies!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I addressed every one of your points directly and without insult?

why not just confute one substantive point regarding the superiority of Republican capitalism rather than rant like a fool while trying to hide among many points. Don't be afriad, try!!

It must be hard though when you're "independent" of brains and so can't ever make up your mind about anything?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Fact: The housing bubble happened entirely on the Republican watch. They had the White House and both houses of Congress.

omg!!! of course thatS idiotic since Fanny Freddie and Federal Reserve are independent!!

 

[samjones]

It just isn't going to happen. Period. Doesn't matter how much Ron Paul rants.

of course thats perfectly idiotic and liberal as usual. It doesn't matter that its unlikely to happen any time soon. It matters that Aristotle's ideas were picked up and promoted for 2000 years before America was finally founded on his ideas.

This is the mentality.... Aristotle, the Founding Fathers, Freedom, Liberty, etc....All very high-minded, I know, but totally irrelvant to the specific items - unrest in the Middle East, entitlement reform, jobs, bad mortgages, deficit spending, trade imbalance....

Barack Obama - in a debate - he's going to be addressing these items. Convincingly. Ron Paul. In a debate with Barack Obama that isn't going to be happening. He would be ranting like an old fool and making himself into a very memorable Saturday Night Live sketch.

Face it, Ed. This is America, not Middle Earth. We deal with real issues on election day up here, not ghosts and goblins. If you can't get your feet on the ground with realistic approaches to the specific issues that the country is dealing with then you aren't going to receive your party's nomination and you sure as heck aren't going to have any impact on the election.

I would rather be wrong than irrelevant and that's what Ron Paul is. Irrelevant.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So then if markets correct themselves, deregulation is A<LWAYS a good thing? Like deregulating the CMBS market for example? Or the Junk Bond and Thrift & Loan market that was deregulated jst before the last big recession? Or the Stock market the was deregulated just before the Depression? So basically, the Libertarian Mantra is "Hey, the market will correct itself. The only price is that millions of Americans will lose everything they own.... or their health.... or their lives...."

yes deregulation is always a good thing, but it can't over come huge distorting liberal regulations like we had from Fanny Freddie FHA CRA Federal Reseerve etc etc. Is that really over your head??