My Take: Uninformed juries produce incorrect outcomes

[bendog]

They were part of a mob that was, when a crime is committed, every person involved is as guilty as the person committing the crime. That’s basic law, there are thousands of people in prison for murder and other crimes whose hands didn’t actually commit the crime. In fact Grosskreutz and drop kick man could be convicted of murder or manslaughter because two men died during the attacks on Rittenhouse. It wont happen. But it could and has in the past.

You are not guilty by proximity in the united states. Why do you hate our liberty?

 

[BrokeLoser]

But there was no proof of the shot persons burning and looting. The only issue was whether the State could show Rittenhouse's account of being in fear for his life or safety was unreasonable.

But it's obvious why the judge wouldn't let the state call the people shot "victims" while Kyle contended they wanted to hurt him.

Umm…there is/was video evidence…lots of it.

 

[Dragonlady]

Who said he was deputized? You are making some very strange arguments.

You said he wasn't a vigilanty. If you're on the street, heavily armed, "protecting private property" and you're not duly deputized by or a member of any military unit or police force, you are, by definition, a "vigilanti".

Please note that NO police force in the USA shoots and kills people soley to "protect private property". Police only shoot on a perceived threat to people.

 

[hadit]

If the judge had been impartial, this trial would have had a very different result.

Not liking the outcome is not grounds to call the judge partial.

 

[hadit]

You said he wasn't a vigilanty. If you're on the street, heavily armed, "protecting private property" and you're not duly deputized by or a member of any military unit or police force, you are, by definition, a "vigilanti".

Please note that NO police force in the USA shoots and kills people soley to "protect private property". Police only shoot on a perceived threat to people.

Which is what Kyle did.

 

[Batcat]

Here you go.. Love his underaged drinking with Proud Boys right after he made bail.

Kyle Rittenhouse Named as Accused Kenosha Shooter

Kyle Rittenhouse is a 17-year-old from Antioch, Illinois, who was arrested after two people were killed, and a third wounded, at protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

heavy.com

Once again media lies.Rittenhouse was not an underage drinker.o

18-Year-Old Kyle Rittenhouse Spotted At Wisconsin Bar; Did Not Violate Bond, Police Say

Kyle Rittenhouse was spotted at a Wisconsin Bar Tuesday, the day he was arraigned on charges of shooting and killing two people and injuring a third during violent protests in Kenosha this summer.

chicago.cbslocal.com

***snip***

Police said Rittenhouse was in the pub and in the company of a parent that afternoon, according to video footage. Police contacted the Kenosha County District Attorney’s office and determined his presence at the bar did not violate his bond agreement. It is legal for underage people to drink at bars with their parents in Wisconsin.
…emphasis added

 

[bendog]

You said he wasn't a vigilanty. If you're on the street, heavily armed, "protecting private property" and you're not duly deputized by or a member of any military unit or police force, you are, by definition, a "vigilanti".

Please note that NO police force in the USA shoots and kills people soley to "protect private property". Police only shoot on a perceived threat to people.

I accept he was a vigilante. But standing on a street trying to intimidate protestors while holding a rifle is ... perhaps surprisingly ... not necessarily illegal.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Here you go.. Love his underaged drinking with Proud Boys right after he made bail.

Kyle Rittenhouse Named as Accused Kenosha Shooter

Kyle Rittenhouse is a 17-year-old from Antioch, Illinois, who was arrested after two people were killed, and a third wounded, at protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

heavy.com

That article quotes people who verified events happened exactly like the defense claimed. It exonerates Kyle, and it says nothing about underage drinking.

 

[Mac-7]

Rittenhouse did not get the benefit of restorative justice. Some things to consider.

My Take: Uninformed juries produce incorrect outcomes

Restorative processes could significantly help disrupt these cycles. Interrupting dishonest narratives would be a good start.

news.yahoo.com

Excerpt:

I was a troubled teen. I remember the day I was called to my high school’s administrative office to receive a call. He gave me advice I have never forgotten. He told me that he had been notified that the police were going to arrest me and that I needed to tell the truth even if it was going to get me in trouble.

I was in my early 30s when I reflected upon this wisdom when performing part of his eulogy. It was horrible legal advice, but I know it saved my soul.

The mistakes I made as a teenager have informed my whole life’s purpose. My doctoral dissertation, on forgiveness, would not have been written if I had not accounted for my own moral failings.

Kyle Rittenhouse represents a character in the larger story of the divided American society. I follow these events and the attitudes and opinions surrounding them as an expert researcher focused on healing divided societies. There are many bifurcations, and the casualties that are not being discussed are healing and truth. His acquittal is a springboard, and the public is now at increased threat.

No criminal trial is motivated by healing or truth. Trials are about fact finding and fact exclusion. The truth, for example, that after pleading not guilty earlier this year Kyle posed with Proud Boys while flashing a white power hand sign and T-shirt that said “Free as F---,” was not allowed in trial. Rittenhouse remains “Free as F---,” unpermitted facts notwithstanding.

continued

As usual libs have no opinions that they can express in their own words and have to rely on internet mouthpieces like this Wim Laven character

Unfortunately he’s not here to discuss and defend is wacky ideas

So there is nothing more that needs to be said till he shows up

 

[hadit]

It is interesting that those who were not there when the event happened, were not present during the trial, were not present during the jury's deliberations none the less think themselves of legal scholar status sufficient to declare the trial fraudulent and the judge partial.

Sounds a LOT like somebody went into this with a predetermined bias and is looking for tidbits to confirm that bias, rejecting anything that counters it.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You said he wasn't a vigilanty. If you're on the street, heavily armed, "protecting private property" and you're not duly deputized by or a member of any military unit or police force, you are, by definition, a "vigilanti".

Please note that NO police force in the USA shoots and kills people soley to "protect private property". Police only shoot on a perceived threat to people.

And Rittenhouse didn’t shoot anyone in defense of property.

 

[Papageorgio]

The vigilantes took it upon themselves to punish rioters.

Anyone there was participating in a riot and all had no expectation of being safe. The rioting boiled over to fighting and gun play, it is sad and unfortunate but all involved were out to create trouble. They were all pretty dumb to beat a riot.

 

[Meister]

That article quotes people who verified events happened exactly like the defense claimed. It exonerates Kyle, and it says nothing about underage drinking.

Obviously, you haven't figured out that the liberals don't need no stinkin' facts. They have the court of liberal
public opinion, and that's all they need for a conviction.

 

[bendog]

Anyone there was participating in a riot and all had no expectation of being safe. The rioting boiled over to fighting and gun play, it is sad and unfortunate but all involved were out to create trouble. They were all pretty dumb to beat a riot.

And everyone at Trump's insurrection needs to have the electrodes.

 

[Papageorgio]

And everyone at Trump's insurrection needs to have the electrodes.

They were stupid as well, I have not seen one charge of insurrection and is was disorganized as are most riots.

 

[Dragonlady]

It is interesting that those who were not there when the event happened, were not present during the trial, were not present during the jury's deliberations none the less think themselves of legal scholar status sufficient to declare the trial fraudulent and the judge partial.

Sounds a LOT like somebody went into this with a predetermined bias and is looking for tidbits to confirm that bias, rejecting anything that counters it.

If your hypothesis were true, we wouldn't have been able to point out to you the several ways in which the jury did not hear all of the information, and was not allowed to consider any evidence as to Kyle Rittenhouse's possible motive for shooting people outside of the events of that night.

We wouldn't be pointing out the places in his testimony where Kyle implicating himself as the instigator of the violence which followed, or anything that would demonstrate that Kyle was one of life's little shitstains, before he bought that illegal AR15, and then immediately went out and killed two people within it within 24 hours of acquiring the weapon.

There is no way you can show that Kyle went out hunting leftists that night, without looking his words and behaviour leading up to that night. When things weren't "wild enough" for Kyle where he was, he left the private property he was supposed to be protecting, and went looking for trouble.

He entered areas police told to stay out of, and admitted he was afraid to be on his own in the crowd. The trigger happy little thug was inclined to shoot first, regardless of circumstances. He turned and fired on Rosenstein without a second's hesitation to consider the situation or whether he was in any serious danger. That's how frightened he was after the protestors called him out for pointing that gun.

 

[bendog]

They were stupid as well, I have not seen one charge of insurrection and is was disorganized as are most riots.

None of the Wash rioters have been charged without evidence showing them committing an illegal act, and being there was not illegal. Nor was being "at" the Wis riots? Do you always hate our liberty, or it just "selective"?

 

[Dragonlady]

Anyone there was participating in a riot and all had no expectation of being safe. The rioting boiled over to fighting and gun play, it is sad and unfortunate but all involved were out to create trouble. They were all pretty dumb to beat a riot.

No they weren't. They were there to protest the shooting of yet another unarmed black man.

Literally all of the violence and looting at the 2020 protests was being carried out by guys like Rittenhouse, and gangs of professional looters, taking advantage of the protests to cause trouble, knowing the protestors would be blamed for all of it.

Most people who were arrest for property crimes, looting and arson, were members of far rights groups, anarchists and professional gangs of looters using the cover of the protests. Members of the far right groups target black businesses in the arsons, going after the most successful and most popular first. No BLM members were arrested.

AP finds most arrested in protests aren't leftist radicals

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump portrays the hundreds of people arrested nationwide in protests against racial injustice as violent urban left-wing radicals.

apnews.com

 

[OKTexas]

Article conclusion:

After I plead guilty I had punishment. I had to pay fines and restitution, I was placed on probation, had my drivers license suspended and I had to complete community service in lieu of incarceration. I’m not dismissing the presence of positive value in these features of punitive justice, but to acknowledge that it is incomplete. Rittenhouse will not experience any of those benefits, we can only hope that something else can stimulate healing and accountability.

If the US took restorative justice more seriously there would be considerable benefit to the communities and individuals impacted in these tragedies. These processes can create spaces for real dialog between victims and offenders, which is proven to increase accountability among offenders and empower victims. Making amends can help heal and even grow.

If you do not believe growth is needed, consider the cultural questions being raised in the trial. Prosecuting attorney Binger observed, “I think we can all agree we shouldn’t have 17-year-olds running around the street with AR-15s because this is what happens,” but clearly the alt-right and militia groups did not see it this way.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate and extremism, has sounded alarms for increases in hate crimes and violence in recent years and observes the lionization of Rittenhouse through “not factually based” propaganda.

Restorative processes could significantly help disrupt these cycles. Interrupting dishonest narratives would be a good start. I have personally observed no shortage of people who believe that the shootings were heroic acts of patriotism and whom claim they would like to have the chance to do the same thing.

This reflects great ideological divides — not a melting pot — where difference is a justification for harm and not a source of strength. Each verdict — guilty or not — only makes the need of reconciliation greater.

— Wim Laven, Ph.D.

Exactly where is the "restorative process" for the folks that had their businesses looted and burned. You commies seem to be forgetting about them. If we speak of cause and effect, you commies are the cause.

.

 

[Dragonlady]

Exactly where is the "restorative process" for the folks that had their businesses looted and burned. You commies seem to be forgetting about them. If we speak of cause and effect, you commies are the cause.

.

Didn't these people have insurance. Why don't you take that up with the arsonists and looters who were arrested.

AP finds most arrested in protests aren't leftist radicals

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump portrays the hundreds of people arrested nationwide in protests against racial injustice as violent urban left-wing radicals.

apnews.com