My Take: Uninformed juries produce incorrect outcomes

[airplanemechanic]

For taking a weapon to a protest, breaking curfew, defying the police and killing two people??????? Are you sure? Why was he drinking with Proud Boys after he made bail? Look at the big picture.

You just described the rioters. What about Kyle?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

At that point Rittenhouse became a danger to the protestors and needed to be disarmed. He shot and killed the first guy who tried to stop him.

The convicted child rapist tried to disarm him because he pointed his gun at an arsonist?

Why was the rapist screaming he'd kill Rittenhouse before any arson?

 

[airplanemechanic]

The convicted child rapist tried to disarm him because he pointed his gun at an arsonist?

Why was the rapist screaming he'd kill Rittenhouse before any arson?

Much easier to get his dick in Kyle's ass without Kyle having that AR in his hands.

 

[Indeependent]

How very racist of you! Are you always a racist bastard, or did you just slip up?

I live near NYC.

 

[marvin martian]

If your hypothesis were true, we wouldn't have been able to point out to you the several ways in which the jury did not hear all of the information, and was not allowed to consider any evidence as to Kyle Rittenhouse's possible motive for shooting people outside of the events of that night.

We wouldn't be pointing out the places in his testimony where Kyle implicating himself as the instigator of the violence which followed, or anything that would demonstrate that Kyle was one of life's little shitstains, before he bought that illegal AR15, and then immediately went out and killed two people within it within 24 hours of acquiring the weapon.

There is no way you can show that Kyle went out hunting leftists that night, without looking his words and behaviour leading up to that night. When things weren't "wild enough" for Kyle where he was, he left the private property he was supposed to be protecting, and went looking for trouble.

He entered areas police told to stay out of, and admitted he was afraid to be on his own in the crowd. The trigger happy little thug was inclined to shoot first, regardless of circumstances. He turned and fired on Rosenstein without a second's hesitation to consider the situation or whether he was in any serious danger. That's how frightened he was after the protestors called him out for pointing that gun.

^^^This is the left's latest Big Lie.

 

[WEATHER53]

My take is uninformed people cast their uninformation very liberally

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If your hypothesis were true, we wouldn't have been able to point out to you the several ways in which the jury did not hear all of the information, and was not allowed to consider any evidence as to Kyle Rittenhouse's possible motive for shooting people outside of the events of that night.

We wouldn't be pointing out the places in his testimony where Kyle implicating himself as the instigator of the violence which followed, or anything that would demonstrate that Kyle was one of life's little shitstains, before he bought that illegal AR15, and then immediately went out and killed two people within it within 24 hours of acquiring the weapon.

There is no way you can show that Kyle went out hunting leftists that night, without looking his words and behaviour leading up to that night. When things weren't "wild enough" for Kyle where he was, he left the private property he was supposed to be protecting, and went looking for trouble.

He entered areas police told to stay out of, and admitted he was afraid to be on his own in the crowd. The trigger happy little thug was inclined to shoot first, regardless of circumstances. He turned and fired on Rosenstein without a second's hesitation to consider the situation or whether he was in any serious danger. That's how frightened he was after the protestors called him out for pointing that gun.

Illegal AR-15? WTF are you yammering about?

You could not have possibly watched the trial, viewed the videos, and come to some of your wild-assed conclusions unless you have suffered a traumatic brain injury! You exceed the stupidity of a typical libtard. Is it because you are not an American?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I live near NYC.

Congratulations! You are a dumbass!

 

[Indeependent]

Congratulations! You are a dumbass!

I live it; you don't.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Which proves my point.

Thank you!

The prosecution violated Rittenhouse's constitutional rights on several occasions. Did you not see the judge threatening to dismiss the case with prejudice because the assistant prosecutor asked why he did speak up and defend himself before the time he testified which is an obvious 5th amendment violation?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Kyle Rittenhouse represents a character in the larger story of the divided American society. I follow these events and the attitudes and opinions surrounding them as an expert researcher focused on healing divided societies. There are many bifurcations, and the casualties that are not being discussed are healing and truth. His acquittal is a springboard, and the public is now at increased threat.

Correct – an uninformed jury the consequence of a biased judge.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I live it; you don't.

I spent about 3 months traveling through NYC on the weekends about 30 years ago. Even then I knew what kind of people lived there and wanted nothing to do with it!

 

[Nostra]

Correct – an uninformed jury the consequence of a biased judge.

The jury saw all the videos of the night and had no other conclusion than he acted in self defense. Anyone saying otherwise is a moron hack who is ignoring the obvious.

 

[easyt65]

Rittenhouse did not get the benefit of restorative justice. Some things to consider.

My Take: Uninformed juries produce incorrect outcomes

Restorative processes could significantly help disrupt these cycles. Interrupting dishonest narratives would be a good start.

news.yahoo.com

Excerpt:

I was a troubled teen. I remember the day I was called to my high school’s administrative office to receive a call. He gave me advice I have never forgotten. He told me that he had been notified that the police were going to arrest me and that I needed to tell the truth even if it was going to get me in trouble.

I was in my early 30s when I reflected upon this wisdom when performing part of his eulogy. It was horrible legal advice, but I know it saved my soul.

The mistakes I made as a teenager have informed my whole life’s purpose. My doctoral dissertation, on forgiveness, would not have been written if I had not accounted for my own moral failings.

Kyle Rittenhouse represents a character in the larger story of the divided American society. I follow these events and the attitudes and opinions surrounding them as an expert researcher focused on healing divided societies. There are many bifurcations, and the casualties that are not being discussed are healing and truth. His acquittal is a springboard, and the public is now at increased threat.

No criminal trial is motivated by healing or truth. Trials are about fact finding and fact exclusion. The truth, for example, that after pleading not guilty earlier this year Kyle posed with Proud Boys while flashing a white power hand sign and T-shirt that said “Free as F---,” was not allowed in trial. Rittenhouse remains “Free as F---,” unpermitted facts notwithstanding.

continued

I think Juries are 2 for 2 in getting rulings / decisions right lately.

It is mo surprise snowflakes fault the Rittenhouse Jury for not finding violent Leftists have the right to make the decision to threaten to kill, chase, attack, & try to kill someone and being denied doing so by their would-be victim who uses superior legal firepower in a case of legal self-defense.

They obviously want laws passed that legally prevents future targets / victims from having any option of self-defense and instead must allow themselves to be killed.

 

[Blues Man]

Sounds like a HORRIBLE idea. A professional jury?

You think corruption has no end now??? Wait until that bitch gets rolling.

Absolutely NO FUCKING THANK YOU!!!

Yeah it's better to let people who can't understated expert testimony and who can't divorce their emotions from facts make life or death decisions.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah it's better to let people who can't understated expert testimony and who can't divorce their emotions from facts make life or death decisions.

Until you get committed leftists taking those jobs and looking
ro punish Red staters....

 

[Blues Man]

Until you get committed leftists taking those jobs and looking
ro punish Red staters....

Yeah that never happens on juries now

 

[Richard-H]

The prosecution violated Rittenhouse's constitutional rights on several occasions. Did you not see the judge threatening to dismiss the case with prejudice because the assistant prosecutor asked why he did speak up and defend himself before the time he testified which is an obvious 5th amendment violation?

If the judge believed there was a mistrial, he should have declared it before the jury started deliberations.

There was no basis for a mistrial 'with prejudice'. That was a wingnut fantasy.

If what you said is true, then waiting until after the jury reached its verdict to decided whether or not to declare a mistrial shows the judge was absolutely partial.

 

[Coyote]

Did you read the whole article?

continued......

This process focuses on justifying punishment for offenders who have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt, but uninformed juries cannot make informed decisions.

This is not justice, and it does nothing for healing. The families of the victims, the communities, Kyle Rittenhouse, and so on … nothing about the process is intended to help them heal or find closure. Punitive justice serves a role, but there are other options. The verdict only affirms that the US remains committed to its long history of vigilantism, an ugly bloodlust embedded throughout the American mythology promoting white supremacy.

It is more complicated than that….for example, while the photo’s of Rittenhouse with the Proud Boys were not admissible, neither was any evidence on the backgrounds of the victims. Reason being it isn’t relevant to the case. The juries are given very strict parameters within which to come up with a verdict “beyond reasonable doubt” based on the facts presented by both sides. Whether or not he was white supremacist has no bearing on his actions that night and that is all the jury can and should consider in it’s verdict. I think when it comes to sentencing however, those things can be relevan.

The big issue, imo, is what happens next? What does Rittenhouse really feel? He has been coached to the nth degree, by his lawyers, so we don’t really know.

He is a kid, with a history of being bullied, called dumb, etc. He dropped out of school. He idolized the police, guns, and “law and order”. He bought a high powered gun because “it looked cool”. He made a remark when he saw shoplifters that he wished he had a gun with him. He wanted to be thought of as a medic, so saving lives and helping people also seemed important to him. He was 17. All of this matters because at 17, kids are dumb, impulse control is lacking and the brain is immature. He put himself into a situation he had no business being in, he lacked maturity, training, experience, and the adults around him allowed it.

Without going inside Kyle’s head, it is impossible to know what he really thinks. He is now idolized by the right, and “cool guys” like the proud boys….he is no longer “dumb, stupid Kyle”…he is suddenly a cool kid.

He decided to go and study nursing, maybe that is a restorative justice. I *think* the reality of killing people and the consequences he faced, shook him. He was turned down by the military…which is interesting. Maybe nursing is a form of restitution. Better to save lives than take lives.

But that is IF he is allowed to. The left is already clamoring that he be thrown out of college. I don’t agree with that. Leave him alone.

But the right is just as bad if not worse. They are turning him into a “hero”, solely because he killed two “leftists”. How warped is that? Rightwing politicians are using him. Trump is using him. They are offering money and jobs irrespective of ability or skills. They need to leave him alone.

Police are trained to handle volatile dangerous mobs, without killing. 17 yr old kids are not. Restorative justice imo, would allow Kyle to disappear and focus on the police and/or that allowed private militias in, and nothing to enforce the curfew. It would shine a spotlight on why we seem to idolize vigilantism and what might be the fall out from this trial. Maybe not enough was done about the Floyd riots. Despite the fact that the majority were peaceful, those that were not caused a lot of damage.

Is it season on protesters excusable as self defense? But there are so many contradictions here because if it is rightwing rioters, like Jan 6, they are patriots, and shooting in defense of our elected representatives is “murder“ of a “martyr”.

There will be fall out from this, and I think it will be ugly, in the guise of self defense until it goes to far and someone, who who doesn’t have a flawed past they can apart to justify tbe killing, is killed.

I despise vigilantism. It is people taking “justice” into their own hands and appointing themselves judge, jury, and executioner. Without accountability.

How can restorative justice address al this, because Rittenhouse is really just a pawn.

 

[2aguy]

It is more complicated than that….for example, while the photo’s of Rittenhouse with the Proud Boys were not admissible, neither was any evidence on the backgrounds of the victims. Reason being it isn’t relevant to the case. The juries are given very strict parameters within which to come up with a verdict “beyond reasonable doubt” based on the facts presented by both sides. Whether or not he was white supremacist has no bearing on his actions that night and that is all the jury can and should consider in it’s verdict. I think when it comes to sentencing however, those things can be relevan.

The big issue, imo, is what happens next? What does Rittenhouse really feel? He has been coached to the nth degree, by his lawyers, so we don’t really know.

He is a kid, with a history of being bullied, called dumb, etc. He dropped out of school. He idolized the police, guns, and “law and order”. He bought a high powered gun because “it looked cool”. He made a remark when he saw shoplifters that he wished he had a gun with him. He wanted to be thought of as a medic, so saving lives and helping people also seemed important to him. He was 17. All of this matters because at 17, kids are dumb, impulse control is lacking and the brain is immature. He put himself into a situation he had no business being in, he lacked maturity, training, experience, and the adults around him allowed it.

Without going inside Kyle’s head, it is impossible to know what he really thinks. He is now idolized by the right, and “cool guys” like the proud boys….he is no longer “dumb, stupid Kyle”…he is suddenly a cool kid.

He decided to go and study nursing, maybe that is a restorative justice. I *think* the reality of killing people and the consequences he faced, shook him. He was turned down by the military…which is interesting. Maybe nursing is a form of restitution. Better to save lives than take lives.

But that is IF he is allowed to. The left is already clamoring that he be thrown out of college. I don’t agree with that. Leave him alone.

But the right is just as bad if not worse. They are turning him into a “hero”, solely because he killed two “leftists”. How warped is that? Rightwing politicians are using him. Trump is using him. They are offering money and jobs irrespective of ability or skills. They need to leave him alone.

Police are trained to handle volatile dangerous mobs, without killing. 17 yr old kids are not. Restorative justice imo, would allow Kyle to disappear and focus on the police and/or that allowed private militias in, and nothing to enforce the curfew. It would shine a spotlight on why we seem to idolize vigilantism and what might be the fall out from this trial. Maybe not enough was done about the Floyd riots. Despite the fact that the majority were peaceful, those that were not caused a lot of damage.

Is it season on protesters excusable as self defense? But there are so many contradictions here because if it is rightwing rioters, like Jan 6, they are patriots, and shooting in defense of our elected representatives is “murder“ of a “martyr”.

There will be fall out from this, and I think it will be ugly, in the guise of self defense until it goes to far and someone, who who doesn’t have a flawed past they can apart to justify tbe killing, is killed.

I despise vigilantism. It is people taking “justice” into their own hands and appointing themselves judge, jury, and executioner. Without accountability.

How can restorative justice address al this, because Rittenhouse is really just a pawn.

Wow....nothing in that post is accurate or truthful...but thanks....

Proud Boys.......they are not a racist group......I feel that has to be pointed out at every opportunity since you idiots keep calling them racists....

And the officer who shot and killed Ashley Babbit should have been tried for manslaughter....she was unarmed...and likely given no warning...

Kyle wasn't a "Vigilante," he did not seek out the 4 convicted felons for arrest or punishment...while he was attempting to put out a dumpster that was set on fire....he was violently attacked by the first felon, and then the other felons used that defensive shooting to attack him.....

What part of that, you dumb ass.....equal a vigilante?

We will await your non-response...