My opinion of Bush misleading is reinforced again

[Palestinian Jew]

By Dana Priest, Washington Post Staff Writer

In the fall of 2002, as Congress debated waging war in Iraq (news - web sites), copies of a 92-page assessment of Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction sat in two vaults on Capitol Hill, each protected by armed security guards and available to any member who showed up in person, without staff.

But only a few ever did. No more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page National Intelligence Estimate executive summary, according to several congressional aides responsible for safeguarding the classified material.
This eye opening article is at
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20040427/ts_washpost/a44837_2004apr26
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This story fits in perfectly with why I feel the Bush administration mislead the public, with congress standing by. Just like I said, the republicans would go along with anything Bush said, intelligence was a small thing to get in the way, while the democrats knew that to get reelected, the vote to go to war was right before the 2002 election, they had to go along with whatever Bush said, his approval rating was upper 80% afterall.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
This story fits in perfectly with why I feel the Bush administration mislead the public

Sounds like he was on target to me!

New evidence unveils chemical, biological, nuclear, ballistic arms

New evidence out of Iraq suggests the U.S. effort to track down Saddam Hussein's missing weapons of mass destruction is having better success than is being reported.

Key assertions by the intelligence community widely judged in the media and by critics of President Bush as having been false are turning out to have been true after all.

But this stunning news has received little attention from the major media, and the president's critics continue to insist that "no weapons" have been found.

In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors.

The Iraq Survey Group, ISG, whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led arms-inspection teams, has found "hundreds of cases of activities that were prohibited" under U.N. Security Council resolutions, a senior administration official tells Insight.

"There is a long list of charges made by the U.S. that have been confirmed, but none of this seems to mean anything because the weapons that were unaccounted for by the United Nations remain unaccounted for."

Both Duelfer and his predecessor, David Kay, reported to Congress that the evidence they had found on the ground in Iraq showed Saddam's regime was in "material violation" of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the last of 17 resolutions that promised "serious consequences" if Iraq did not make a complete disclosure of its weapons programs and dismantle them in a verifiable manner.

The United States cited Iraq's refusal to comply with these demands as one justification for going to war.

Both Duelfer and Kay found Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical- and biological-weapons [BW] programs," the official said. "They found a prison laboratory where we suspect they tested biological weapons on human subjects."

They found equipment for "uranium-enrichment centrifuges" whose only plausible use was as part of a clandestine nuclear-weapons program. In all these cases, "Iraqi scientists had been told before the war not to declare their activities to the U.N. inspectors," the official said.

But while the president's critics and the media might plausibly hide behind ambiguity and a lack of sensational-looking finds for not reporting some discoveries, in the case of Saddam's ballistic-missile programs they have no excuse for their silence.

"Where were the missiles? We found them," another senior administration official told Insight.

"Saddam Hussein's prohibited missile programs are as close to a slam dunk as you will ever find for violating United Nations resolutions," the first official said. Both senior administration officials spoke to Insight on condition that neither their name nor their agency be identified, but their accounts of what the United States has found in Iraq coincided in every major area.

When former weapons inspector Kay reported to Congress in January that the United States had found "no stockpiles" of forbidden weapons in Iraq, his conclusions made front-page news. But when he detailed what the ISG had found in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last October, few took notice.

Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in subsequent inspections in recent weeks:

* A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?

* "Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"

* New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.

* A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."

* "Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."

* "Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."

In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.

In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.

The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."

Read the rest here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Saddam was obviously in violation of the UN, but they weren't a threat to the U.S. Those missles they talk about can't get to Europe!

Both Duelfer and Kay found Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical- and biological-weapons [BW] programs," the official said. "They found a prison laboratory where we suspect they tested biological weapons on human subjects."

More of the duel use argument, I think we all know where that landed us.

They found equipment for "uranium-enrichment centrifuges" whose only plausible use was as part of a clandestine nuclear-weapons program.

Those aren't the same aluminum tubes that turns out were just for plumbing, are they?

may have been used

research

not fully declared

program

Yea!!!More duel use, more deadly programs and research. Boy am I glad we invaded Iraq, otherwise the U.S. would long be destroyed.

 

[jimnyc]

I'm glad you're in a position to know more about what was found than some of the best weapons inspectors in the world. Only an ass sniffer still thinks Bush claimed Iraq was any type of threat to the US directly. He clearly stated that if left unchecked he could be a threat to the US and that he would like nothing more than to get weapons into the hands of those that would. I suppose your still dumb enough to believe he ever said Iraq was an imminent threat to the US.

Give it up, dude. There was way more than enough reasons to invade Iraq and remove Saddam and his regime.

Yes, he was misleading. Misleading to those that are too stupid to listen properly. Have you had your ears checked lately?

 

[jimnyc]

Funny how you ignored these:

""Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'""

New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.

A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."

"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."

"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."

"The Iraqis admitted they had made 3.9 tons of VX," a powerful nerve gas, but claimed they had never weaponized it. The U.N. inspectors "felt they had more. But where did it go?" The Iraqis never provided any explanation of what had happened to their VX stockpiles.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

I didn't ignore those, the reference strain would be serious if it wasn't under some guy's sink!

I'm glad you're in a position to know more about what was found than some of the best weapons inspectors in the world.

I never said I knew more, I'm just saying its very likely they are totally wrong, much like the best intelligence in the world.

Only an ass sniffer still thinks Bush claimed Iraq was any type of threat to the US directly.

Bush never said that Iraq was an imminent threat(nor have I ever said that), but Cheney said the guy has "reconstitued nuclear weapons", which most Americans saw as an imminent threat.

Give it up, dude. There was way more than enough reasons to invade Iraq and remove Saddam and his regime.

There might have been plenty of reasons, but the WMD one was the reason given. Bush would never have gotten enough support if that case wasn't made, especially when North Korea had just created a nuke.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

how many times must we hear the same rubbish!

That "rubish" is costing men their lives.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

If the draft comes back and I'm called up, I will go.

I think its foolish not to question why we went to war when there are obvious questions that pop up.

 

[Zhukov]

* New research on BW-applicable agents...Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever

Hemorrhagic fever is aeresol infectious, highly communicable, and makes your body digest its own organs and circulatory system until you start bleeding out of all your orifices, your eyes, and your pores, and then you die. It takes about a week and there isn't currently a cure. The treatment that we have could be about 50% successfull. The CDC classifies this as a 'Category A' biological warfare agent.


But I guess, since he wasn't able to deploy it at the time, we should have just let him continue his programs in that direction till he could, eh?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
By Dana Priest, Washington Post Staff Writer

In the fall of 2002, as Congress debated waging war in Iraq (news - web sites), copies of a 92-page assessment of Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction sat in two vaults on Capitol Hill, each protected by armed security guards and available to any member who showed up in person, without staff.

Damn straight it was guarded. As Jimmy points out the report notes evidence of WMD.

Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) said some members with packed daily schedules are deterred simply by the prospect of trekking across Capitol grounds to the secure Hart Senate Office Building room where the Senate's classified material is kept.

Really are Congressmen that lazy? Or just the really rich ones like Rockefeller IV?

Everyone in the world wants to come to see you" in your office, he said, and having to go to the secure room is "not easy to do." Members can't take notes, there is no staff to synthesize the material, and "it's extremely dense reading," he said. "It's the Brahms of music."

Now if the President didn't do his damn job the Dems demand months of testimony to find a way to crucify his ass.

But only a few ever did. No more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page National Intelligence Estimate executive summary, according to several congressional aides responsible for safeguarding the classified material.

Can't walk a few blocks unless they are picking up a check or a chick. Lazy ass congressmen.

This story fits in perfectly with why I feel the Bush administration mislead the public, with congress standing by.

Well I'm stumped, I read it through and there is one match for "Bush". And it's the Democrats bitching about Bush and his portrayal of information they didn't bother to even read. Which was their job.

"When Democratic senators demanded that the committee also scrutinize how the Bush administration publicly portrayed intelligence, the committee came up with a compromise: a second report devoted to that topic, to be published before the end of the year. At the moment, however, finishing the first report has been bogged down by party-line squabbling over how far to go in criticizing the CIA."

Dems: Bush knew! We want a new report all about his tricky ways.

Republicans: Rice already owned your ass, give it up already!

Taxpayers: Tell us again, why do we pay you guys?

Just like I said, the republicans would go along with anything Bush said, intelligence was a small thing to get in the way, while the democrats knew that to get reelected, the vote to go to war was right before the 2002 election, they had to go along with whatever Bush said, his approval rating was upper 80% afterall.

Nobody "went along" with faking the intelligence of WMD since it was a common belief they existed among both parties as well as most of the world's intelligence services.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
There might have been plenty of reasons, but the WMD one was the reason given. Bush would never have gotten enough support if that case wasn't made, especially when North Korea had just created a nuke.

And without the WMD threat Iraq still needed to be invaded and have their regime removed for over 12 years. There is absolutely no argument you can give to refute that.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

And without the WMD threat Iraq still needed to be invaded and have their regime removed for over 12 years. There is absolutely no argument you can give to refute that.

I think something needed to be done about Saddam, but not for a long time. At the time Bush was committed to a war in Iraq no matter what, he ignored North Korea, which I think will be one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency. He had the chance to stop NK from getting nukes, but now it is too late. NK is known to sell wmd to terrorist, actually, it would be ridiculous to think that Kim Jong Il wouldn't sell a nuke. After North Korea, we should have then dealt with Saudi Arabia, the people that funded 9/11 and even raised 15 of the hijackers.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
I think something needed to be done about Saddam, but not for a long time.

When? After he had deployable chemical and biological weapons? Now there's a winning idea.

At the time Bush was committed to a war in Iraq no matter what, he ignored North Korea, which I think will be one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency.

I would like to see a more forceful approach to North Korea, and in his 2nd term I believe that is just what we will have from President Bush. But he has not ignored North Korea. We have been involved in diplomacy on several levels, with multiple interested parties. Besides, North Korea is a much more delicate situation than Iraq was.

 

[jimnyc]

I think something needed to be done about Saddam, but not for a long time.

Maybe 24 years of failed resolutions, oppression & torture would have been long enough for you?

At the time Bush was committed to a war in Iraq no matter what, he ignored North Korea, which I think will be one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency.

NK has hardly been ignored. Their has been talks on the table for quite some time, although it's been far less than 12 years.

NK is known to sell wmd to terrorist, actually, it would be ridiculous to think that Kim Jong Il wouldn't sell a nuke.

Just as ridiculous as thinking Saddam wouldn't do the same. After 12 years we had to ensure the world that wasn't going to happen. If negotiations completely fail with NK as they did with Iraq I hope the US will take the same action there.

After North Korea, we should have then dealt with Saudi Arabia, the people that funded 9/11 and even raised 15 of the hijackers.

I think it makes more sense to go after the aggressors first and get the funders later. The US can't possibly take on every rogue nation and hunt down terrorists in allied countries simultaneously. I do agree that those that helped fund 9/11 need to be hunted down and have some lead placed between their foreheads.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

After he had deployable chemical and biological weapons? Now there's a winning idea.

When would he have deployed those weapons? It could be after Canada decided to turn on us, or maybe when France got some balls and decided to save some of their pride or it could be after the whole world decided to turn on the U.S., NO ONE KNOWS. It could have been never.

But he has not ignored North Korea. We have been involved in diplomacy on several levels, with multiple interested parties. Besides, North Korea is a much more delicate situation than Iraq was.

I bet you would have said that Iraq was a much more serious threat prior to the war if you listened to the Bush admin. The reason North Korea is a delicate situation now is because Bush ignored the threat. I remember when NK first kicked out the atomic inspectors and Bush along with the media ignored it b/c of Iraq.

 

[jimnyc]

When would he have deployed those weapons? It could be after Canada decided to turn on us, or maybe when France got some balls and decided to save some of their pride or it could be after the whole world decided to turn on the U.S., NO ONE KNOWS. It could have been never.

That's just it, no one knew the full extent of his capabilities because he failed to cooperate for over 12 years. Now we have no doubt about Saddam's capabilities.

The reason North Korea is a delicate situation now is because Bush ignored the threat. I remember when NK first kicked out the atomic inspectors and Bush along with the media ignored it b/c of Iraq.

Instead of repeating this ignoring crap over and over, how about you prove it? Just because Iraq took center stage that doesn't mean NK was ignored. Do you have anything to offer other than rhetoric?

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Maybe 24 years of failed resolutions, oppression & torture would have been long enough for you?

If the Iraqis don't mind it, neither do I. They could have done something if they wanted to, look at us, we defeated Britain with less organization and supplies. History has proven as long as a large group of people believe in the cause they are fighting for, they will win.

ust as ridiculous as thinking Saddam wouldn't do the same.

But he didn't have them and the CIA knew it.

think it makes more sense to go after the aggressors first and get the funders later.

The financiers create the aggressors. Without the training camps, literature and money, there would be no terrorists.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Instead of repeating this ignoring crap over and over, how about you prove it?

I know we are now engaged in talks. Answer this, if Bush didn't ignore the threat back in 2002, why can NK nuke LA?

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
It could have been never.

Or it could have been a year later. The point is, the lesson has been learned. Deal with problems before they fully materialize.

I bet you would have said that Iraq was a much more serious threat prior to the war if you listened to the Bush admin.

Based on Iraq's continuing development of WMD programs and their close relations with middle eastern terrorist organizations, I would have to say they were a more serious threat.

North Korea has been pre-occupied with nuclear bombs and does not have either as close an association with Islamic terrorists, or probably even a fourth of the ease with which to interact with them based solely on their geographic situation.

The reason North Korea is a delicate situation now is because Bush ignored the threat. I remember when NK first kicked out the atomic inspectors and Bush along with the media ignored it b/c of Iraq.

Actually, the reason North Korea is a delicate situation now is because of the previous administration's repeated dealings with North Korea based on false promises and involving no monitoring of North Korean behavior. The North Koreans twice blackmailed the Clinton administration out of money on the pretext of stopping their nuclear weapons development programs. Both times, the North Koreans continued their work.

Also, North Korea has China. Iraq had no such external support.

 

[jimnyc]

If the Iraqis don't mind it, neither do I. They could have done something if they wanted to, look at us, we defeated Britain with less organization and supplies. History has proven as long as a large group of people believe in the cause they are fighting for, they will win.

Sure, as long as the Iraqi's don't mind.

But he didn't have them and the CIA knew it.

Proof?

The financiers create the aggressors. Without the training camps, literature and money, there would be no terrorists.

But the fact remains that the aggressors had already existed and already struck. You remove them first.

I know we are now engaged in talks. Answer this, if Bush didn't ignore the threat back in 2002, why can NK nuke LA?

Can't answer that, because NK has not been ignored - and you still haven't provided evidence of otherwise. Are you saying we should have made a preemptive attack on NK already?