'My health insurance is going up to $800 a month with a $15k deductible and that's the CHEAPEST PLAN"

[Mac1958]

As with everything else, America's health care debate is completely poisoned by hyperpartisan, binary political ideology. And hidden amongst all the intellectual political dishonesty is that, by far, a major driver of American health care costs is the fact that Americans are so goddamn FAT.

As America continues to fade from being the world leader in so many things, I hope we can demonstrate to the world the profoundly destructive nature of partisan politics. It's killing us in real time. Maybe that will be the last valuable lesson we provide.

forkup, here ya go.

This happens all the time. I say it, they jump in to illustrate it for me:

It seems to me that the era of hyper-partisanship arose when Hillary Clinton was campaigning against Trump and then lost. You democraps were at least semi-civil with GW Bush. Trump was the most centered candidate from the GOP ever and the chance to heal the divide was there, but instead you democraps decided to go apeshit with Trump Hate and then escalate the insanity every day. So, if you want to heal the divide, extend the olive branch. I dare you democraps. I won't hold my breath, because I know what you are really saying is the right should denounce Trump and embrace woke ideology if we want to end hyper-partisanship.

 

[forkup]

You're comparing apples and nuclear bombs. In America nothing happens until it has passed through multiple layers of government and at least hundreds of people have gotten their kickbacks and the democrap party has benefitted/locked in more votes in some way. The American government is vastly different than many European governments. If you want a European style of government, you can't have an American style government. There is no way to afford the corruption. I'll make you a deal. The GOP can continue, unfettered, to rout out corruption in the democrap party. The democraps can rout out all the corruption in the GOP unfettered. When we have eliminated enough corruption and the American government starts to function for the benefit of We The People, I am all for creating UHC for basic/essential healthcare. Gender reassignment surgery and boob jobs are not included. Deal?

You're funny Dorian. I'm giving you specific costs that drive up prices. This from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. And you're response is culture war BS.

Why is that? What's so scary about actually talking about the specifics of healthcare that you feel unable to discuss? It's like there's some tilt button when you're asked to think beyond talking points.

 

[westwall]

Because Republicans got rid of the individual mandate, which was the mechanism that kept premiums low by keeping healthy people in the pool.

Well that wouldn't have worked either. The youngsters who were supposed to foot the bill didn't make enough money so they couldn't cover the costs either.

Basically the authors of the law were correct, they had to rely on the stupidity of the American public to get that crap show passed in the first place.

 

[westwall]

Was it ever /anything/ that they claimed?

Nope. Obummer lied through his teeth.

 

[Mac1958]

You're funny Dorian. I'm giving you specific costs that drive up prices. This from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. And you're response is culture war BS.

Why is that? What's so scary about actually talking about the specifics of healthcare that you feel unable to discuss? It's like there's some tilt button when you're asked to think beyond talking points.

It's how they are with health care, economics, energy, law, foreign relations, most anything. A quarter-inch deep.

MAGA is essentially the Dunning-Kruger Effect on a large scale. There is no communicating with that.

I have several general agreements with the Right. But they have done down such a -- and I don't usually like using this word -- stupid path that they have become an ignorant, paranoid farce. And that's not good for the country.

 

[forkup]

It's how they are with health care, economics, energy, law, foreign relations, most anything. A quarter-inch deep.

MAGA is essentially the Dunning-Kruger Effect on a large scale. There is no communicating with that.

I have several general agreements with the Right. But they have done down such a -- and I don't usually like using this word -- stupid path that they have become an ignorant, paranoid farce. And that's not good for the country.

I always come back to the why. What motivates someone to spend the considerable time it takes to reply to a complete stranger. (A kink we all seem to have .) When the only thing that seems to motivate you is to use the word Democrap, like some weird shield that explains why you're pissed at how your life is.

What do you get out of being on a forum while having no intention of actually talking to people who disagree with you.

 

[Mac1958]

I always come back to the why. What motivates someone to spend the considerable time it takes to reply to a complete stranger. (A kink we all seem to have .) When the only thing that seems to motivate you is to use the word Democrap, like some weird shield that explains why you're pissed at how your life is.

What do you get out of being on a forum while having no intention of actually talking to people who disagree with you.

I think I may have mentioned this before, but this has always been about sociology for me. I think that both ends of the spectrum have perfectly reasonable concerns and grievances. That's life in a large, dynamic country. And it actually used to be a positive.

But this has been an entirely new phenomenon. They have been pulled into a parallel informational ecosystem, and only given so many rhetorical tools with which to work. So we end up just getting the rote, shallow responses, mixed with the rote, shallow attacks.

Personally, I come here to observe, and belch out my opinion when the mood hits (which is often!). But I've learned that this is not a place for stimulating, challenging, interesting conversation with those who happen to disagree with me on something.

 

[kyzr]

Republicans need to open up the access to any plan in the country. COSTCO, Walmart, Target, or even healthcare companies, who put their costs and benefits on a government site to allow purchase, with or without a small subsidy based on income, should be a much better and affordable healthcare system.
Medicaid needs to be fixed as well.

 

[forkup]

Well that wouldn't have worked either. The youngsters who were supposed to foot the bill didn't make enough money so they couldn't cover the costs either.

Basically the authors of the law were correct, they had to rely on the stupidity of the American public to get that crap show passed in the first place.

It was working. Until 2017 the individual mandate was in effect. Getting rid of it increased cost period.

 

[kyzr]

It was working. Until 2017 the individual mandate was in effect. Getting rid of it increased cost period.

How can you force people to buy anything they can't afford?

 

[WorldWatcher]

How can you force people to buy anything they can't afford?

#1 They weren't forced to buy anything. To purchase or not was their choice, however the Heritage Plan (which the ACA was modeled after) was to charge them a penalty at tax time if they didn't have health insurance.

#2 The poor weren't impacted as they had MediAid, ACA is different.

WW

 

[Conservative from Georgia]

Comments...
1. Thanks, Obama, for absolutely nothing.
2. Health Insurance costs are out of control.
3. There is no solution, Democrat, Republican, or Trumpian
4. The only solution is the free market. The costs have gotten so out of control, and out of the realm of reality, that the suggestion here is to not buy the policy to begin with. This "insurance" doesn't guarantee health, or longevity. We are all going to die regardless.
5. Pay cash instead
6. Think outside the box. Fly to foreign countries for healthcare if needed.

The system has failed, the politicians have failed. We are responsible for ourselves at this stage.

Welcome to Trumpcare

 

[kyzr]

#1 They weren't forced to buy anything. To purchase or not was their choice, however the Heritage Plan (which the ACA was modeled after) was to charge them a penalty at tax time if they didn't have health insurance.

OK, so now its unaffordable and we need a new ACA.

#2 The poor weren't impacted as they had MedicAid, ACA is different. WW

Now Medicaid is also broken and is being ripped-off by fraudsters. Major reforms are needed to keep costs down.

 

[kyzr]

Welcome to Trumpcare

What plan? Its called Obamacare not Trumpcare.

A new "Trumpcare" needs to fix failed Obamacare.

 

[forkup]

How can you force people to buy anything they can't afford?

The same way you get people to pay for other services that are deemed being for the societal good. Either by making it a law or by leveraging taxes. And people typically can't opt out of those. That's how it's funded in nearly every develop nation to a greater or lesser extent. To the satisfaction of nearly everybody involved.

In fact, would you be in favor of making car insurance optional because people can't afford it?

 

[WorldWatcher]

#1 They weren't forced to buy anything. To purchase or not was their choice, however the Heritage Plan (which the ACA was modeled after) was to charge them a penalty at tax time if they didn't have health insurance.

#2 The poor weren't impacted as they had MediAid, ACA is different.

WW

Just so that people understand what the penalty was, it was originally $95 PER YEAR for an adult in 2014 raising to $695 PER YEAR in 2018.

That's not a typo, "per year". $695 a year or $57.92 a month. If you did choose to not have health insurance (which would have cost you more).

WW

Households Earning $75,000 or Less Paid Majority of Individual Mandate Penalties

Last month, the Supreme Court turned back a challenge to the Affordable Care Act (ACA), allowing to stand the Individual Mandate it created that penalizes taxpayers for not having proper health insurance and opening the way for President Biden and Congress to reimplement it.

taxfoundation.org

 

[Godboy]

Obama didn't do it. Republicans did. 15 years of chipping away at the foundations of the plan instead of sitting down and figuring out a solution.

A solution to what? What issue are you suggesting needs to be resolved? Is the problem that Obamacare caused insurance to skyrocket EXACTLY like the GOP warned over and over again? We said this would happen, we voted against it, you said it would lower prices and you voted for it, and now everyone is stuck with high as shit insurance costs... and YOU have the nerve to blame the right for this shit?

Dude, shut the **** up. You blaming republicans for Obamacare is annoying as all get out.

 

[sparky]

Obama didn't do it. Republicans did. 15 years of chipping away at the foundations of the plan instead of sitting down and figuring out a solution.

If memory serves, no ~R~ voted for the ACA in the first place

Sorry, but that "free market" is one of the reasons we are in this position.

more not allowing FOR the free market ....

I have several general agreements with the Right. But they have done down such a -- and I don't usually like using this word -- stupid path that they have become an ignorant, paranoid farce. And that's not good for the country.

Then let me forward this Mac......what happens when the government mandates a purchase, and subsidizes the industry offering it?

Said industry would no longer need to compete for customers ......could charge whatever they want.....would have no need for customer service skills......would not need worry about quality ....etc.

Doesn't this all fly in the face of a capitalist construct?

Isn't this the recipe for a socialist construct? Which anyone with a shred of history can verify a 'stupid path'?

~S~

 

[kyzr]

The same way you get people to pay for other services that are deemed being for the societal good. Either by making it a law or by leveraging taxes. And people typically can't opt out of those. That's how it's funded in nearly every develop nation to a greater or lesser extent. To the satisfaction of nearly everybody involved.

OK, run on mandatory ACA deduction of $$$ a month and see who votes for it.

In fact, would you be in favor of making car insurance optional because people can't afford it?

Good argument. But some people don't need cars, so it is not "everyone" paying like for health insurance, some can avoid that cost.

 

[initforme]

Employers will have to be paying more for premiums as less people will be in the pool. Wait until they start complaning.