'My health insurance is going up to $800 a month with a $15k deductible and that's the CHEAPEST PLAN"

[BluesLegend]

Oh boo hoo the mooching sponges who want someone else to pay their health insurance bills are crying.

 

[toobfreak]

Yup. Obummercare was not as affordable as they claimed.

Was it ever /anything/ that they claimed?

 

[forkup]

If it was so "affordable" why do so many people need a government subsidy to afford it?

Because Republicans got rid of the individual mandate, which was the mechanism that kept premiums low by keeping healthy people in the pool.

 

[Dorian Mode]

LOL

You've been brainwashed to think gov't. has the answers.

Enjoy.

That is the real problem with these democraps. They think the government (and by government I mean only the democrap party) can fix issues. Name on issue the government has fixed rather than completely FUBAR'd. The government is in the business of creating and compounding problems. Even though I was slightly liberal my whole life up until the DNC rigged the primary against Sanders, I have to admit Reagan was absolutely right to try and get government off the backs of the people. Government is the problem in America, reducing the power and scope of the government is the answer.

 

[80zephyr]

Sorry, but that "free market" is one of the reasons we are in this position.

No. its not. Look at lasic eye surgery and chiropractic care as two examples. Keep government/insurance out, and the prices will go down.

 

[forkup]

That is the real problem with these democraps. They think the government (and by government I mean only the democrap party) can fix issues. Name on issue the government has fixed rather than completely FUBAR'd. The government is in the business of creating and compounding problems. Even though I was slightly liberal my whole life up until the DNC rigged the primary against Sanders, I have to admit Reagan was absolutely right to try and get government off the backs of the people. Government is the problem in America, reducing the power and scope of the government is the answer.

There are plenty of countries that have much more government inserted into their healthcare. In fact, ALL develop nations have. ALL are cheaper. In fact, before ACA (the government) got involved with making sure everyone had insurance millions of Americans didn't have ANY insurance.

So it's not like the "free market" hasn't been tried, tested and felt wanting in the past.

 

[forkup]

No. its not. Look at lasic eye surgery and chiropractic care as two examples. Keep government/insurance out, and the prices will go down.

You think so? By what mechanism?

 

[Dorian Mode]

There are plenty of countries that have much more government inserted into their healthcare. In fact, ALL develop nations have. ALL are cheaper. In fact, before ACA (the government) got involved with making sure everyone had insurance millions of Americans didn't have ANY insurance.

So it's not like the "free market" hasn't been tried, tested and felt wanting in the past.

If a country can afford UHC, then it can't be anyway near as corrupt as the US Government is. The truth is, we can have UHC care in America, but at the same time we can't make Somalians much richer than the average US citizen and we can't spend billions to house a couple hundred homeless people. We can't spend billions around the globe trying to get the entire world to become transsexual. And we can't make programs like Obamacare where the insurance lobbies and medical lobbies get rich beyond their wildest dreams. In short, clean up the corruption in America and we can have UHC, free college, free daycare, all with lower taxes. Unfortunately, most money spent by the democraps is only to make the democrap elite and the big donors richer, not the people.

 

[80zephyr]

You think so? By what mechanism?

A lot of lasic and chiropractor are not covered by insurance. One reason why the prices for these services continue to be low.

 

[forkup]

If a country can afford UHC, then it can't be anyway near as corrupt as the US Government is. The truth is, we can have UHC care in America, but at the same time we can't make Somalians much richer than the average US citizen and we can't spend billions to house a couple hundred homeless people. We can't spend billions around the globe trying to get the entire world to become transsexual. And we can't make programs like Obamacare where the insurance lobbies and medical lobbies get rich beyond their wildest dreams. In short, clean up the corruption in America and we can have UHC, free college, free daycare, all with lower taxes. Unfortunately, most money spent by the democraps is only to make the democrap elite and the big donors richer, not the people.

It's not about corruption perse. Although it doesn't help. Let me give you a comparative example. I'm Belgian my wife's American so I can speak at least somewhat to both systems.

First of it has to do with education. Specifically the cost of it. Becoming a doctor in the US is an expensive proposition. This also means of course in order to make the profession attractive the wages need to be high enough to cover the cost. Something that's compounded by the need for expensive malpractice insurance.

In Belgium you can become a doctor without going into debt. And the cost in general is reasonable (not free) And malpractice payous, although it exists is much much lower.

The next step is administrative cost. Government providing healthcare are simply more centralized and require less overhead. In practice this means medical information is more accessible and there's little confusion about what's covered and what isn't. More administration causes more costs.

Then there's the cost of medicine. In Belgium it's the government that negotiates prices. And because they represent the entire population they can get better prices then an insurance company.

Then there's the big one. For profit healthcare. This means the goal of the system is not providing healthcare but maximizing profits. And this from the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies, all of which need a cut of the profit.

None of which is helped by your solution of "taking the government out of it."

 

[forkup]

A lot of lasic and chiropractor are not covered by insurance. One reason why the prices for these services continue to be low.

That's not an explanation. Can you give a reason why those services are cheaper?

 

[Dorian Mode]

One thing that has also influenced the exorbitant rising costs of healthcare, beyond rampant corruption, is the fact that the American population has become ticking time bombs medically. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 300lb behemoth with type-2 diabetes, the entire democrap party is on multiple anti-psychotics (and they're not working) few in America could run a mile or do 10 pushups, most are addicted to something bad for them, and everyone seems to only be eating corporate food that has almost no nutritional value whatsoever. Keeping the average America healthy is a daunting task.

 

[80zephyr]

It's not about corruption perse. Although it doesn't help. Let me give you a comparative example. I'm Belgian my wife's American so I can speak at least somewhat to both systems.

First of it has to do with education. Specifically the cost of it. Becoming a doctor in the US is an expensive proposition. This also means of course in order to make the profession attractive the wages need to be high enough to cover the cost. Something that's compounded by the need for expensive malpractice insurance.

In Belgium you can become a doctor without going into debt. And the cost in general is reasonable (not free) And malpractice payous, although it exists is much much lower.

The next step is administrative cost. Government providing healthcare are simply more centralized and require less overhead. In practice this means medical information is more accessible and there's little confusion about what's covered and what isn't. More administration causes more costs.

Then there's the cost of medicine. In Belgium it's the government that negotiates prices. And because they represent the entire population they can get better prices then an insurance company.

Then there's the big one. For profit healthcare. This means the goal of the system is not providing healthcare but maximizing profits. And this from the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies, all of which need a cut of the profit.

None of which is helped by your solution of "taking the government out of it."

Then the government should run everything, right?

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Still waiting on fucktard Republicans to introduce their plan.

Do you still have the "outline" of a plan?

 

[80zephyr]

That's not an explanation. Can you give a reason why those services are cheaper?

Because if these services that are not covered by insurance are too expensive, people won't have them done.

 

[Mac1958]

It's not about corruption perse. Although it doesn't help. Let me give you a comparative example. I'm Belgian my wife's American so I can speak at least somewhat to both systems.

First of it has to do with education. Specifically the cost of it. Becoming a doctor in the US is an expensive proposition. This also means of course I'm order to make the profession attractive the wages need to be high enough to cover the cost. Something that's compounded by the need for expensive malpractice insurance.

In Belgium you can become a doctor without going into debt. And malpractice, although it exists is much much lower.

The next step is administrative cost. Government providing healthcare are simply more centralized and require less overhead. In practice this means medical information is more accessible and there's little confusion about what's covered and what isn't. More administration causes more costs.

Then there's the cost of medicine. In Belgium it's the government that negotiates prices. And because they represent the entire population they can get better prices then an insurance company.

Then there's the big one. For profit healthcare. This means the goal of the system is not providing healthcare but maximizing profits. And this from the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies, all of which need a cut of the profit.

None of which is helped by your solution of "taking the government out of it."

As with everything else, America's health care debate is completely poisoned by hyperpartisan, binary political ideology. And hidden amongst all the intellectual political dishonesty is that, by far, a major driver of American health care costs is the fact that Americans are so goddamn FAT.

As America continues to fade from being the world leader in so many things, I hope we can demonstrate to the world the profoundly destructive nature of partisan politics. It's killing us in real time. Maybe that will be the last valuable lesson we provide.

 

[forkup]

One thing that has also influenced the exorbitant rising costs of healthcare, beyond rampant corruption, is the fact that the American population has become ticking time bombs medically. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 300lb behemoth with type-2 diabetes, the entire democrap party is on multiple anti-psychotics (and they're not working) few in America could run a mile or do 10 pushups, most are addicted to something bad for them, and everyone sems to only be eating corporate food that has almost no nutritional value whatsoever. Keeping the average America healthy is a daunting task.

This "Democrap" BS, is just that BS.

Another thing I've experienced is the skewed nature of the cost of food.

It's simply cheaper in the US to eat crappy food. Meaning that for people on a lower income being fat is often not an actual choice.

That's not the fault of Democrats. It's the fault of the companies that overproduce certain foodstuffs. Foodstuffs that are then added to everything. Heightening caloric value and lowering nutritional value. I'm looking at you high fructose corn syrup.

 

[Dorian Mode]

It's not about corruption perse. Although it doesn't help. Let me give you a comparative example. I'm Belgian my wife's American so I can speak at least somewhat to both systems.

First of it has to do with education. Specifically the cost of it. Becoming a doctor in the US is an expensive proposition. This also means of course in order to make the profession attractive the wages need to be high enough to cover the cost. Something that's compounded by the need for expensive malpractice insurance.

In Belgium you can become a doctor without going into debt. And the cost in general is reasonable (not free) And malpractice payous, although it exists is much much lower.

The next step is administrative cost. Government providing healthcare are simply more centralized and require less overhead. In practice this means medical information is more accessible and there's little confusion about what's covered and what isn't. More administration causes more costs.

Then there's the cost of medicine. In Belgium it's the government that negotiates prices. And because they represent the entire population they can get better prices then an insurance company.

Then there's the big one. For profit healthcare. This means the goal of the system is not providing healthcare but maximizing profits. And this from the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies, all of which need a cut of the profit.

None of which is helped by your solution of "taking the government out of it."

You're comparing apples and nuclear bombs. In America nothing happens until it has passed through multiple layers of government and at least hundreds of people have gotten their kickbacks and the democrap party has benefitted/locked in more votes in some way. The American government is vastly different than many European governments. If you want a European style of government, you can't have an American style government. There is no way to afford the corruption. I'll make you a deal. The GOP can continue, unfettered, to rout out corruption in the democrap party. The democraps can rout out all the corruption in the GOP unfettered. When we have eliminated enough corruption and the American government starts to function for the benefit of We The People, I am all for creating UHC for basic/essential healthcare. Gender reassignment surgery and boob jobs are not included. Deal?

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

LOL

You've been brainwashed to think gov't. has the answers.

That's literally, their ******* job.

Enjoy.

Defiantly no one the Trump regime.

 

[Dorian Mode]

As with everything else, America's health care debate is completely poisoned by hyperpartisan, binary political ideology. And hidden amongst all the intellectual political dishonesty is that, by far, a major driver of American health care costs is the fact that Americans are so goddamn FAT.

As America continues to fade from being the world leader in so many things, I hope we can demonstrate to the world the profoundly destructive nature of partisan politics. It's killing us in real time. Maybe that will be the last valuable lesson we provide.

It seems to me that the era of hyper-partisanship arose when Hillary Clinton was campaigning against Trump and then lost. You democraps were at least semi-civil with GW Bush. Trump was the most centered candidate from the GOP ever and the chance to heal the divide was there, but instead you democraps decided to go apeshit with Trump Hate and then escalate the insanity every day. So, if you want to heal the divide, extend the olive branch. I dare you democraps. I won't hold my breath, because I know what you are really saying is the right should denounce Trump and embrace woke ideology if we want to end hyper-partisanship.