CDZ My choice or yours?

[task0778]

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

 

[BULLDOG]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

 

[JGalt]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

One capitalist crash, and how many socialist disasters have there been since 1929?

The Bush recession was due to socialism too, you know.

 

[danielpalos]

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

simply using the Term; Socialism, for dramatic effect a fallacy. socialism requires social morals for free to achieve a commune of Heaven on Earth.

you allege capital morals for a market friendly price, are "worth more".

 

[DGS49]

Why do Young Fukkers never seem to be aware of the classic "test cases" for socialism from recent history? Look at GERMANY and KOREA. In both cases, after a recent war, half the country went "socialist" and promptly went into the shitter, while the other half pursued freedom and capitalism ("western social democracy"), and thrived.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the one factor that destroyed East Germany and North Korea is SOCIALISM.

And yet we have Young Fukkers seriously suggesting that Socialism is the "way to go."

Un.

Fucking.

Believable.

 

[danielpalos]

Why do Young Fukkers never seem to be aware of the classic "test cases" for socialism from recent history? Look at GERMANY and KOREA. In both cases, after a recent war, half the country went "socialist" and promptly went into the shitter, while the other half pursued freedom and capitalism ("western social democracy"), and thrived.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the one factor that destroyed East Germany and North Korea is SOCIALISM.

And yet we have Young Fukkers seriously suggesting that Socialism is the "way to go."

Un.

Fucking.

Believable.

where does any true AnCap, function in the real world?

 

[task0778]

Ok Bulldog, let's go through your post, yours in italics and quotes, starting with:

"Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form"
Of course they don't, have you been to any socialist countries? That's what they do there, maybe they don't start out that way but that's pretty much how they end up - with your choices severely reduced if not eliminated. And your rights and freedoms.

"Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism."
I disagree, these are all volunteer organizations that promote (pay) based on mostly on merit. Nobody is forced to do these things, not in this country.

"You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out."
Wow, lots of stuff here to talk about. First, capitalism doesn't fail, but it does require competent governance. It is the governance that fails, not capitalism, which is nothing more than an economic model. Which BTW, has provided far more prosperity than anything else, not even close. And socialism never bailed anything out, socialism has failed every single time it has ever been tried. Look at the Great Depression in the 1930s, even after all those socialistic policies that FDR tried, the depression was still going strong right up to WWII. Yes, capitalism ran unchecked, but the fault was with the government for allowing so much borrowing leverage. If you think socialism had anything to do with digging us out of that or the 2007 Recession (which BTW was not Bush's fault) then you have a serious misunderstanding of history.

"Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?"
Missed your point here, private companies do indeed build and maintain the infrastructure. Are you under the impression that the infrastructure in socialist countries is better than ours? I am fairly certain that such is not the case.

People seem to forget that capitalism is about choices, the more the better. If someone makes a bad choice, that's on them not on capitalism for giving them the choice to make in the 1st place. Nobody limits your choices, you can't have this or that. And that is why capitalism is by far the best economic model ever devised.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

The topic fails as a false dilemma fallacy.

No one advocates for ‘socialism,’ America will not become ‘socialist,’ and the thread premise is yet another example of the ignorance of ‘socialism’ common to most on the right.

And if not ignorance, then it’s an example of the dishonesty and demagoguery common to most on the right, nothing but a ridiculous conservative lie.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Ok Bulldog, let's go through your post, yours in italics and quotes, starting with:

"Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form"
Of course they don't, have you been to any socialist countries? That's what they do there, maybe they don't start out that way but that's pretty much how they end up - with your choices severely reduced if not eliminated. And your rights and freedoms.

"Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism."
I disagree, these are all volunteer organizations that promote (pay) based on mostly on merit. Nobody is forced to do these things, not in this country.

"You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out."
Wow, lots of stuff here to talk about. First, capitalism doesn't fail, but it does require competent governance. It is the governance that fails, not capitalism, which is nothing more than an economic model. Which BTW, has provided far more prosperity than anything else, not even close. And socialism never bailed anything out, socialism has failed every single time it has ever been tried. Look at the Great Depression in the 1930s, even after all those socialistic policies that FDR tried, the depression was still going strong right up to WWII. Yes, capitalism ran unchecked, but the fault was with the government for allowing so much borrowing leverage. If you think socialism had anything to do with digging us out of that or the 2007 Recession (which BTW was not Bush's fault) then you have a serious misunderstanding of history.

"Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?"
Missed your point here, private companies do indeed build and maintain the infrastructure. Are you under the impression that the infrastructure in socialist countries is better than ours? I am fairly certain that such is not the case.

People seem to forget that capitalism is about choices, the more the better. If someone makes a bad choice, that's on them not on capitalism for giving them the choice to make in the 1st place. Nobody limits your choices, you can't have this or that. And that is why capitalism is by far the best economic model ever devised.

Much ado about nothing.

Clearly conservatives have latched onto the ‘socialism’ lie believing it will afford them some partisan advantage.

It won’t.

 

[oldsoul]

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

The topic fails as a false dilemma fallacy.

No one advocates for ‘socialism,’ America will not become ‘socialist,’ and the thread premise is yet another example of the ignorance of ‘socialism’ common to most on the right.

And if not ignorance, then it’s an example of the dishonesty and demagoguery common to most on the right, nothing but a ridiculous conservative lie.

Ok, you seem to believe that you know more about what socialism is, and what that would mean in practice. So, please, by all means, explain to us all how socialism works, so we can all understand at the same level as you do. I do not make this request with any sarcasm, snark, or other "gotcha" in mind. (Though I fear that it may seem that way because I do understand where socialism inevitably leads). Hey, maybe I could learn something about this though. Who knows.

 

[task0778]

I think oldsoul was talking to Clayton_Jones not me, but while CJ makes his reply I'm gonna offer my 2 cents. First, here is a link that spells it out quite nicely. Although it was written in 1981, the salient points are still valid and I invite anyone so inclined to check it out.

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/wp-content/files_mf/1433884078summer78heilbroner.pdf

I found it while researching how socialism curtails or denies individual rights and liberties, although that should be obvious. But 1st, let's address what socialism actually is. According to Merriam-Webster, it is:

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Further, it states:

It [socialism] refers to a system of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control.

Definition of SOCIALISM

You tell me, aren't most of the Democrats we hear from these days advocating for social [gov't] control of private property and the distribution of income? Maybe they haven't gotten to the point where they want the gov't to actually own and administer the means of production and distribution of goods, but damned if we ain't heading down that road, no? They want single payer, right? Run by the gov't. Free education, up through college, right? Run by the gov't. AOC wants UBI (Universal Basic Income), not only payable to anybody who can't work but also those who can but don't want to. Said it herself. Run by the gov't. You name it, they pretty much want to control it. Run by the gov't. Free this and free that, the gov't will decide what you need and how much.

Maybe that's not strictly gov't ownership. YET. But where does this lead to? If they don't own it per se, they control who does, and that is socialism. Some on the Left are calling for a wealth tax; not an income tax but a wealth tax on what you already paid taxes on. That is socialism, and I don't think it's that far away. Young people love the idea of socialism, we all share and share alike. Well guess what, the reality isn't like that. You think it's share and share alike in North Korea? Cuba? Venezuela? You show me a socialist country and I'll show you a shithole. You think Sweden, and Norway, and Denmark are socialist countries? They don't think so, in fact they vehemently deny it.

 

[TNHarley]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

Except any one that doesnt want socialism bitch about basic govt services.
You guys have turned that into a cliche

 

[danielpalos]

Ok Bulldog, let's go through your post, yours in italics and quotes, starting with:

"Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form"
Of course they don't, have you been to any socialist countries? That's what they do there, maybe they don't start out that way but that's pretty much how they end up - with your choices severely reduced if not eliminated. And your rights and freedoms.

"Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism."
I disagree, these are all volunteer organizations that promote (pay) based on mostly on merit. Nobody is forced to do these things, not in this country.

"You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out."
Wow, lots of stuff here to talk about. First, capitalism doesn't fail, but it does require competent governance. It is the governance that fails, not capitalism, which is nothing more than an economic model. Which BTW, has provided far more prosperity than anything else, not even close. And socialism never bailed anything out, socialism has failed every single time it has ever been tried. Look at the Great Depression in the 1930s, even after all those socialistic policies that FDR tried, the depression was still going strong right up to WWII. Yes, capitalism ran unchecked, but the fault was with the government for allowing so much borrowing leverage. If you think socialism had anything to do with digging us out of that or the 2007 Recession (which BTW was not Bush's fault) then you have a serious misunderstanding of history.

"Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?"
Missed your point here, private companies do indeed build and maintain the infrastructure. Are you under the impression that the infrastructure in socialist countries is better than ours? I am fairly certain that such is not the case.

People seem to forget that capitalism is about choices, the more the better. If someone makes a bad choice, that's on them not on capitalism for giving them the choice to make in the 1st place. Nobody limits your choices, you can't have this or that. And that is why capitalism is by far the best economic model ever devised.

Much ado about nothing.

Clearly conservatives have latched onto the ‘socialism’ lie believing it will afford them some partisan advantage.

It won’t.

nothing but fallacy is all the right wing prefers. Government is socialism. You cannot have socialism without government. The right wing appeals to emotion instead of quibbling the degree of socialism we should exert some constitutional fortitude for.

 

[BULLDOG]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

Except any one that doesnt want socialism bitch about basic govt services.
You guys have turned that into a cliche

I'm not sure what your point is. Sometimes government services do suck. You been to the DMV lately? That just means we need to improve how the DMV works. It doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose that helps us all. There are lots of things that can only be done by the government. No private company could or would do them. Only an idiot would say that is the same as government control of everything.

 

[TNHarley]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

Except any one that doesnt want socialism bitch about basic govt services.
You guys have turned that into a cliche

I'm not sure what your point is. Sometimes government services do suck. You been to the DMV lately? That just means we need to improve how the DMV works. It doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose that helps us all. There are lots of things that can only be done by the government. No private company could or would do them. Only an idiot would say that is the same as government control of everything.

But thats what im saying. The people that bitch about socialism arent bitching about basic govt service. Its a non sequiter is most cases

 

[task0778]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form. We currently have a mix of socialism and capitalism. Our police, fire departments, military, and infrastructure are all socialism. No private company could or would be able to provide those things for us in a purely capitalist system. You also seem to forget the times capitalism drastically failed and it took socialism to bail us out. The crash of 29 was the result of failed capitalism run unchecked. Only a substantial dose of socialism was able to dig us out of that. The Bush crash was not quite as bad, but only a socialist bail out could save us from total collapse. Why do you have a hard time understanding that no private company can build and maintain the infrastructure that all private corporations have to have to stay in business?

Except any one that doesnt want socialism bitch about basic govt services.
You guys have turned that into a cliche

I'm not sure what your point is. Sometimes government services do suck. You been to the DMV lately? That just means we need to improve how the DMV works. It doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose that helps us all. There are lots of things that can only be done by the government. No private company could or would do them. Only an idiot would say that is the same as government control of everything.

But thats what im saying. The people that bitch about socialism arent bitching about basic govt service. Its a non sequiter is most cases

I have no idea what you're saying. But I will say that as a person who doesn't want socialism, all I really want is basic gov't service. Which probably is not the same think that others may think it is or should be. I do not think the gov't needs to be involved with SS, healthcare, or education, or housing, or a bunch of other things that I think do not fall under the purview of basic gov't functions at the federal level. Beyond the basic stuff, I don't think we should provide it at the federal level unless we have the revenue to pay for it.

 

[dblack]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form.

Do you ever read? Check this out: What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

 

[dblack]

The topic fails as a false dilemma fallacy.

No one advocates for ‘socialism,’

This fails as a bald-faced lie.

 

[BULLDOG]

I hear all the complaints about socialism, and I agree that the picture you paint of it would be horrendous. Nobody I have ever met advocates socialism in that form.

Do you ever read? Check this out: What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Do you ever read your own links? Democratic Socialism is nothing like the government run totalitarian state you crazy right wingers portray. It sounds pretty damn good, even if you do hate and fear the word.

 

[Rando Caucasian]

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

I think most Americans like to make their own choices. They like the idea that they get to spend their money any way they want to. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right? Essentially, most of us like to decide for ourselves how we are going to go about pursuing whatever our idea of happiness is. I'm guessing that most of us also do not like somebody else telling us what our idea if happiness should be, and also setting limits on how much happiness we deserve.

Well that's what socialism is, somebody else making your decisions for you whether you like it or not. How's that for equality, hmm? Ok, maybe not ALL your decisions, at least not yet. But have you considered what the trend has been here in the US over the past century or so? Whether you realize it or not, your rights and liberties have been reduced and by more than you think.

Do you think that the best player on the team should be paid the same as the worst? How about the best actors, musicians, teachers, doctors, whatever? No doubt some will strive to be the best they can be anyway, but how many won't bother? How much poorer will that make us as a society?

What does socialism to do innovation if there's no incentive for the results? Whose going to bust ass to develop something new if there's no reward? Been to Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela lately?

Do you really think that under socialism there wouldn't still be a ruling class living like kings? What makes you think things will be any different from an equality and social justice point of view? Or any kind of justice, do you think you will get the same justice as the well-connected, or will they skate and you get screwed?

So you have a decision to make. Do you want to live in a country where no matter how hard you work, no matter what you do or how much you succeed, you simply won't improve your lot?

Do you want to benefit from your own success or would you prefer to let the government take over and use your benefit to pay everyone else?

In short, how much control do you want the gov't to have over your life? Do you want to make your own choices, or leave it to somebody else?

Do you want to live?
Pay the one who is holding a instrument of death at your head.
Simple as that. THAT IS ALL THAT REALITY IS