"Mummy my tummy hurts" - How guns keep you safe.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
I will pay you $1000 if you can provide me with a an address of a no go zone in Europe. GO!!!
I asked this the other day and I am still waiting for an answer.
There is history to this claim and it stems from Fox as usual.


Basically they had an "expert" telling their viewers how bad it was before agreeing that their expert had made it all up.

They also did the same with Paris and had to apologise.



So the damage had been done and the message stays in the mind of the dull and uneducated like your correspondent on this thread. No chance of an apology on here because it feels right to them.

Paris has areas that non Muslims are not welcome. SO do the main cities in Sweden, not sure on Germany.
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
I will pay you $1000 if you can provide me with a an address of a no go zone in Europe. GO!!!
I asked this the other day and I am still waiting for an answer.
There is history to this claim and it stems from Fox as usual.


Basically they had an "expert" telling their viewers how bad it was before agreeing that their expert had made it all up.

They also did the same with Paris and had to apologise.



So the damage had been done and the message stays in the mind of the dull and uneducated like your correspondent on this thread. No chance of an apology on here because it feels right to them.

Paris has areas that non Muslims are not welcome. SO do the main cities in Sweden, not sure on Germany.

So where are the no go areas ?
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
I will pay you $1000 if you can provide me with a an address of a no go zone in Europe. GO!!!
I asked this the other day and I am still waiting for an answer.
There is history to this claim and it stems from Fox as usual.


Basically they had an "expert" telling their viewers how bad it was before agreeing that their expert had made it all up.

They also did the same with Paris and had to apologise.



So the damage had been done and the message stays in the mind of the dull and uneducated like your correspondent on this thread. No chance of an apology on here because it feels right to them.

Paris has areas that non Muslims are not welcome. SO do the main cities in Sweden, not sure on Germany.

So where are the no go areas ?

I dont know the cities personally never been there I just know what has been reported and not by Fox.
 
Why is the UK so racist and full of gun violence ? Makes the USA look very safe.

Prominent London BLM activist in critical condition after she was shot in the head: reports
Sasha Johnson, one of the leading Black Lives Matter activists in the United Kingdom, is in critical condition in London after she was shot in the head early Sunday, in London according to reports.

Details of the shooting in London were not immediately provided by London’s Metropolitan Police Department. News outlets including the BBC and the Guardian reported that city police responded to a shooting just before 3 a.m. in southeast London. The victim was a 27-year-old woman and the shooting was near a house party in London. The Guardian, citing police, reported that there is no immediate evidence to suggest she was targeted.

The BBC reported that Johnson, 27, is also a leading member of the country’s Taking the Initiative Party, which the report said is considered Britain’s first "Black-led political party."

In the USA, we don't go around shooting black people because of their race
 
Last edited:
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.




And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.

2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.13 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,410; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12

why did you pick here if it is so much better elsewhere?...
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
We are not subject, like you.
Most developed countries have a better life quality than most Americans, more educated, healthier, higher life expectancy rates....less crimes and homicides. How did owning a gun make you better than them again ?


Well...you mean after World War 1 and World War 2...when we went over to Europe with guns to save them.......or after the Europeans gave up their guns, then the German socialists murdered 12 million unarmed men, women and children?

And now, as the United States protects Europe with our blood and money...our military keeps Russia from taking over the continent, and keeps German from invading it's neighbors.....so that Europeans can live in their welfare states as we protect them, and provide their advanced medical technology and all of their real technological innovation....

Do you mean that......?

If the Europeans actually had to pay their own way.....have their young men and women serve in their militaries, pay for their militaries.....and actually work for a living....maybe they wouldn't have time to feel superior to the U.S....


Meanwhile, our citizens use our legal guns to save lives every single year....1.1 million times a year our citizens use their legal guns to stop rape, robberies and murders...

And, shithead.......Europe is not the Europe it used to be....3rd world immigrant drug gangs are using fully automatic miltary rifles and grenades to enforce their drug trade....

So violence is coming to Europe.....
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.
Thr US ouldnt even defeat the poor Vietnamese you think thry could've defeated the Germans or the soviets solo?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries. What did the gun ownership do to make their lives better ?
They still get killed by the thousands, kids have to learn how to escape a mass shooting ? Fascinating isn't it ?


The ones getting murdered by guns in this country are criminals...over 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are criminals murdered by other criminals during criminal activity or being part of the criminal underworld...of the rest of the victims, the vast majority of them are friends, family or associates of the criminals caught in the attempted murder of the actual criminals......

Compared to that, however, normal Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year, or more, to stop rapes, robberies and murders.......

If you aren't a criminal, if you don't have a criminal in your family, if you don't associate with criminals and then, if you don't live in a democrat party town, city or voting district, the odds of you being murdered or even hurt by a gun are almost zero......
Blah blah...I've lived in a gun free country and living in the US for 2 decades both cities I've lived in are big cities. Thousands of deaths in here, from criminal activity, family disputes, school shootings, workplace homicides...where I grew up worst cases is someone getting stabbed or punched no dead bodies.

You have no clue about the rest of the world, you became numb and accustomed to hearing about people dying.
Don't really care about the rest of the world.
That's where ignorance stems from.
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.




And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.

2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.13 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,410; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12



See.......that link you have is bullshit....do you know why it is bullshit....?

This little bit right here....

fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.

At what point is a 15 year old gang member a regular child?

At what point is a 17,18,19 year old considered a "Child?"



They use the <20 because so few actual children die from accidental and gun murder....they have to use "under 20" so they can roll in the 15 year old gang members who are shooting each other on the orders of their gangs as part of that number.....you dumb asshole......

What is it with you gun grabbers...you always have to lie to push your agenda....

From Wisqars...the actual CDC data for children <1 to 14...I use this age range to exclude 15 year old gang members...of course, there are younger gang members shooting people, but this is a good start...

Out of 72 million children in the U.S....how many actual innocent children are murdered with guns?

For 2019....

269...

So tell us.....doofus....how does 269 out of 72 million children make guns a leading cause of death...?



Then we have accidental gun deaths of children by gun.....

51.


Again...how does 51 accidental gun deaths out of 72 million equal a leading cause of death...

You anti-gunners lie every time you post data because the actual data doesn't support anything you believe...

100 children a year die on their bicycles.........51 from gun accidents....

300 children die drowning......51 from gun accidents...

You are an idiot....
Lol thr whole entire US and thr world know that we have a gun issue, we thr ones that lived outside and the US tell you that, stats tell you that, the daily news tell you that but you are still in denial.

Just this past week along multiple mass shootings and dead people, criminals or not. Way too many dead people. .
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.




And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.

2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.13 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,410; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12

You have a 99.997% chance of NOT being murdered by a person using a gun.

Stop living in fear
0.1% is way too much, we could be like most if the world...where people don't have to get shot and killed in work places, family disputes, schools, concerts, synagogues....don't u think ?
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)


Shit head...none of the studies were by the NRA and in fact, when Dr. Lott did his research he was anti-gun, you dumb ****...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million


--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Ok I give you this round. However, what is the definition of “self-defense”?
If you’re gonna try and convince me that one out of 200 US adults use a firearm in self-defense each year, then I’m callin BS
It would be better to define "use a firearm". A gun does not need to be fired to be used in self-defense. Merely demonstrating that a potential victim is armed prevents a lot of assaults.
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
I will pay you $1000 if you can provide me with a an address of a no go zone in Europe. GO!!!
I asked this the other day and I am still waiting for an answer.
There is history to this claim and it stems from Fox as usual.


Basically they had an "expert" telling their viewers how bad it was before agreeing that their expert had made it all up.

They also did the same with Paris and had to apologise.



So the damage had been done and the message stays in the mind of the dull and uneducated like your correspondent on this thread. No chance of an apology on here because it feels right to them.

I live here as you know thr fox news crowd like most in these forums are the dumbest human beings you can come across. We all know how bad American education is, add to that all the list they feed them in churches and media and you have what you see. It is insane.
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
I will pay you $1000 if you can provide me with a an address of a no go zone in Europe. GO!!!
I asked this the other day and I am still waiting for an answer.
There is history to this claim and it stems from Fox as usual.


Basically they had an "expert" telling their viewers how bad it was before agreeing that their expert had made it all up.

They also did the same with Paris and had to apologise.



So the damage had been done and the message stays in the mind of the dull and uneducated like your correspondent on this thread. No chance of an apology on here because it feels right to them.

Paris has areas that non Muslims are not welcome. SO do the main cities in Sweden, not sure on Germany.

Pohahahahahahahaha give me addresses I know France like the back of my hand, always there and have a ton of family and friends all over. Let's go champ, provide me with an address to where those no go zones.
 
15th post
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.




And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.

2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.13 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,410; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12

why did you pick here if it is so much better elsewhere?...
Why not?
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:



https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.


Obama told his CDC to look at all gun research...this is what they found in 2013.....

you idiot..

Front Matter | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press


Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a),

-------

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.

The Centers For Disease Control...the research they hid...


SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.


CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,
are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).
Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:
The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.

This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.
Click to expand...


Also...the rest...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

You ******* idiot :lol: Loving states surveyed but still waiting on a precise definition. IOW - If I live on a hog farm in Montana, hear a bump in the middle of the night, grab ma shotgun n say “hey you pig thief - ya’d best run!!!” Does that count as one?

The following 15 states were surveyed: Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Montana, Ohio
A woman walking alone on a city sidewalk after dark who is grabbed by a rapist who then runs off after she pulls a handgun from her purse certainly counts as a defensive use. Basically, any time a potential victim shows they are armed and their attacker runs away, with or without the gun being fired counts as a defensive use.

Let's put it this way. A sneeze guard at a salad bar doesn't have to be covered in snot to be doing its job.
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.
Do you have anything beyond your emotional reaction to counter them?
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.




And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.

2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.13 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,410; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12



See.......that link you have is bullshit....do you know why it is bullshit....?

This little bit right here....

fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.

At what point is a 15 year old gang member a regular child?

At what point is a 17,18,19 year old considered a "Child?"



They use the <20 because so few actual children die from accidental and gun murder....they have to use "under 20" so they can roll in the 15 year old gang members who are shooting each other on the orders of their gangs as part of that number.....you dumb asshole......

What is it with you gun grabbers...you always have to lie to push your agenda....

From Wisqars...the actual CDC data for children <1 to 14...I use this age range to exclude 15 year old gang members...of course, there are younger gang members shooting people, but this is a good start...

Out of 72 million children in the U.S....how many actual innocent children are murdered with guns?

For 2019....

269...

So tell us.....doofus....how does 269 out of 72 million children make guns a leading cause of death...?



Then we have accidental gun deaths of children by gun.....

51.


Again...how does 51 accidental gun deaths out of 72 million equal a leading cause of death...

You anti-gunners lie every time you post data because the actual data doesn't support anything you believe...

100 children a year die on their bicycles.........51 from gun accidents....

300 children die drowning......51 from gun accidents...

You are an idiot....
Lol thr whole entire US and thr world know that we have a gun issue, we thr ones that lived outside and the US tell you that, stats tell you that, the daily news tell you that but you are still in denial.

Just this past week along multiple mass shootings and dead people, criminals or not. Way too many dead people. .


You don't know what you are talking about...our issue isn't guns....since our gun murder rate went down 49% and our gun crime rate went down 75% as more Americans bought, owned and carried guns...

What you assholes don't understand is that the democrat party and it's policies drive our gun murder rate...the democrat party judges and prosecutors keep releasing violent gun offenders.....you idiot.
 
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