JoeB131
Diamond Member
Actually, no, there aren't.
A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.
(Waiting for resident gun nuts to start screaming "KELLERMAN WAS THE DEVIL!!!!")
"Mummy my tummy hurts" - How guns keep you safe.
- Thread starter Tommy Tainant
- Start date
Actually, no, there aren't.
A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.
(Waiting for resident gun nuts to start screaming "KELLERMAN WAS THE DEVIL!!!!")
2aguy
Diamond Member
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You don't know better. You are accustomed to fear, guns, paranoia you have 0 clue about how safe it is without the culture of gun it is in most countries. Dude kids in preschools have to do drills about an active shooter And you blaming the democrats ? Seriously?Lol thr whole entire US and thr world know that we have a gun issue, we thr ones that lived outside and the US tell you that, stats tell you that, the daily news tell you that but you are still in denial.I'm so glad I didn't grow up as a kid in thr US, we had 0 fear of getting kidnapped, shot or molested unlike most American kids....you won't know what I'm talking about, you grew up in a very Hostile and tough environment, that you need a gun to feel safe.Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,
Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.
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Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.www.bing.com
Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.
Not like Cuba, eh?
Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.
So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?
Very happy population
Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51kYou probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,
Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.
video newsroom what is so good about america - Search Videos
Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.
Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.
Not like Cuba, eh?
Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.
So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?
Very happy population
Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k
Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...
Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.
Norway 51k
How much of their GDP is state owned oil?
Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.
Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?
How does square footage compare?
As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.
Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......
For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does
The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of guwww.politifact.com
And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....
As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....
You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
2015, there were 13 723 nonfatal and 2762 fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.1 Deaths from firearms now rank among the top 3 causes of death in the pediatric population.1–3 In previous research, it has been identified that male sex, nonwhite race, low median income, and older adolescent age are risk factors for sustaining both fatal and nonfatal firearm injuries2,4–10; these data, however, are largely driven by firearm assaults in urban settings. In 2 previous studies, it has been demonstrated that fatality rates due to firearms for urban and rural counties are essentially equivalent both in the overall population and specifically in children and adolescents.11,12 Rural and urban differences have been noted regarding the cause of injury or death, with suicide and unintentional firearm deaths occurring at a higher rate in rural counties and deaths from firearm homicide occurring at a higher rate in urban counties.11,12
Rural Versus Urban Hospitalizations for Firearm Injuries in Children and Adolescents
In this study, we compare rates of hospitalizations for firearm injuries in children and adolescents between rural and urban areas of the United States.pediatrics.aappublications.org
See.......that link you have is bullshit....do you know why it is bullshit....?
This little bit right here....
fatal firearm injuries in children and adolescents <20 years of age in the United States.
At what point is a 15 year old gang member a regular child?
At what point is a 17,18,19 year old considered a "Child?"
They use the <20 because so few actual children die from accidental and gun murder....they have to use "under 20" so they can roll in the 15 year old gang members who are shooting each other on the orders of their gangs as part of that number.....you dumb asshole......
What is it with you gun grabbers...you always have to lie to push your agenda....
From Wisqars...the actual CDC data for children <1 to 14...I use this age range to exclude 15 year old gang members...of course, there are younger gang members shooting people, but this is a good start...
Out of 72 million children in the U.S....how many actual innocent children are murdered with guns?
For 2019....
269...
So tell us.....doofus....how does 269 out of 72 million children make guns a leading cause of death...?
Then we have accidental gun deaths of children by gun.....
51.
Again...how does 51 accidental gun deaths out of 72 million equal a leading cause of death...
You anti-gunners lie every time you post data because the actual data doesn't support anything you believe...
100 children a year die on their bicycles.........51 from gun accidents....
300 children die drowning......51 from gun accidents...
You are an idiot....
Just this past week along multiple mass shootings and dead people, criminals or not. Way too many dead people. .
You don't know what you are talking about...our issue isn't guns....since our gun murder rate went down 49% and our gun crime rate went down 75% as more Americans bought, owned and carried guns...
What you assholes don't understand is that the democrat party and it's policies drive our gun murder rate...the democrat party judges and prosecutors keep releasing violent gun offenders.....you idiot.
No....kids don't have to do drills in our country, but people like you make them do drills to push your agenda......
And, shitbird, the European countries are experiencing more gun crime......in the 1960s the criminals in the U.S. went from knives to guns, in order to protect drug turf......today, criminals in Britain, and the rest of Europe are going from knives to guns...to protect the drug trade....and those criminals are 3rd world immigrants who do not fear or respect European culture, values or police.....
The BLM activist in Britain was shot in the head.....gun violence is coming to Europe in a big way......
2aguy
Diamond Member
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You just keep pushing that lie...
Kellerman who did the study that came up with the 43 times more likely myth, was forced to do the research over when other academics pointed out how flawed his methods were....he then changed the 43 times number to 2.7, but he was still using flawed data to get even that number.....
Below is the study where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7 and below that is the explanation as to why that number isn't even accurate.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7;
------------
Nine Myths Of Gun Control
Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"
To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.
The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count.
Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3]
Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold.
Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]
Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.
Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse .
From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes
Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.
-----
Public Health and Gun Control: A Review
Since at least the mid-1980s, Dr. Kellermann (and associates), whose work had been heavily-funded by the CDC, published a series of studies purporting to show that persons who keep guns in the home are more likely to be victims of homicide than those who don¹t.
In a 1986 NEJM paper, Dr. Kellermann and associates, for example, claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one¹s family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counter productive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."8
In a critical review and now classic article published in the March 1994 issue of the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (JMAG), Dr. Edgar Suter, Chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), found evidence of "methodologic and conceptual errors," such as prejudicially truncated data and the listing of "the correct methodology which was described but never used by the authors."5
Moreover, the gun control researchers failed to consider and underestimated the protective benefits of guns.
Dr. Suter writes: "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives and medical costs saved, the injuries prevented, and the property protected ‹ not the burglar or rapist body count.
Since only 0.1 - 0.2 percent of defensive uses of guns involve the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000."5
In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4 Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.
He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.
For example,
53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,
31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use, 32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight, and
17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.
Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.
In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.
Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home. One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.
All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5
It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.
Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Except, of course, we live in a society built around your gun fetish.
Militarized Police who are trigger happy, security cameras, security check points, active shooter drills, businesses having put in security doors because that one employee might go on a shooting rampage one day.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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The Devil? No...he is just an anti-gun extremists who lied with his research in order to push gun control.....and then admitted that he would own a gun to protect his own family....
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Yeah, guy, you've been saying that for years... and it never happens.
Meanwhile, gun violence in the US shot up in 2020.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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No...we have cities controlled by the democrat party...a party whose policies release violent criminals over and over again, whose policies demonize the police to the point the police don't want to stop criminals for fear of assholes like you destroying their lives. Without the democrat party releasing violent gun criminals over and over again our gun crime rate would drop 95%.......
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Then he admitted that he went to the Proletarian Areas and engaged in sex with prostitutes... oh, wait, that's in your fantasy world.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
We lock up 2 million people. If Guns and Prisons were the answer, we'd have the lowest rate of violence in the Free World, not the highest.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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Gun violence shot up, asshole because assholes like you attacked the police and forced them to stop doing their jobs.......you moron...up until you shitheads went after the police our gun murder rate went down 49%, and our gun crime rate went down 75% as more people, not less, went out and bought guns and started carrying them....
Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...
https://crimeresearch.org/2020/10/n...n-issuing-permits-because-of-the-coronavirus/
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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We lock them up and the democrat party lets them back out.....over and over again...and it is the ones they keep letting out doing almost all of our gun crime...
As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------
A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.
In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/
2aguy
Diamond Member
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Hey...shithead...
Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Okay, you can keep saying that, but it's still not true.
See, it's like a Pavlovian response from the Gun Nuts.
Most people are killed by people they know. Guns makes that easier. This isn't complicated, slick.
You keep fretting about that total stranger who is going to randomly commit crimes against you, but the real danger is that argument over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best going bad.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Uh, yeah, we let people out for minor crimes... hello.
So we can make room for the new people we lock up for minor crimes.
We spend $80 BILLION on prisons every year in this country to lock up 2 million people, most of them for NON-VIOLENT crimes.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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Moron.......you have been shown that "knowing" the shooter means the drug dealer killed by the other drug dealer, or the gang member who knows the rival gang member who shot him...you ******* doofus.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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The democrats aren't letting petty criminals out, they are letting the most violent criminals out...
You moron...
More than 90 Cook County defendants accused of murder are out on electronic monitoring. What’s going on?
Editorial: More than 90 Cook County defendants accused of murder are out on electronic monitoring. What’s going on?
There’s a list that Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot and top law enforcement officials in Cook County keep at their fingertips — the real-time numbers of defendants awaiting adjudication of…
www.chicagotribune.com
- Banned
- #397
Except, no it's not, and you're lying because you know that.
You're not mistaken, you are deliberately lying about this.
And liars like you are why we are keeping our guns; because letting people like you get your way will lead to a lot more carnage than a few accidents.
Tommy Tainant
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #398
It doesnt exit. The resident gun nut has a load of dubious reports from the last century to back up his bullshit but none of it can be verified.fer every single case like this there are a thousand cases where a gun saved children,,
Boy, 6, shot and killed after mum gave another driver the finger on school-run
Aiden Leos was sitting in the back of his family car when he was shot and killed as a result of what is believed to be a road rage attackwww.mirror.co.uk
Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
I'd like to see the evidence of that because I believe it doesn't exist.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Their job was to kill unarmed black people? I don't think that was their job. Point was, the National Rampage society flooded the streets with guns and now we are seeing the results.
Own it. Be proud of it.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Wrong in places like Chicago the judges let gun crime criminals go with light or no sentences even repeat offenders.
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