"Mummy my tummy hurts" - How guns keep you safe.


Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
That kid could have just as easily drank some Drano.

And it's not the gun's fault it's the fault of the idiot parents.

Maybe we should require licenses to have kids
His parents didnt kill him. America did.
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?

One person commits a crime and there's something wrong with every American?...lol
This wan't a crime it was an accident. A preventable one for sure but still an accident.
No, it was a crime. Getting flipped off doesn't rate the use of deadly force.
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
That kid could have just as easily drank some Drano.

And it's not the gun's fault it's the fault of the idiot parents.

Maybe we should require licenses to have kids
His parents didnt kill him. America did.
Only a retarded Brit would think that
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.
This is your country.


WTF are you people teaching kids??
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
That kid could have just as easily drank some Drano.

And it's not the gun's fault it's the fault of the idiot parents.

Maybe we should require licenses to have kids


My sons were raised in a house with a significant number of firearms.

They never shot themselves, each other or anybody else. The reason is because I took prudent safety precautions. No loaded firearm was ever left lying around. The boys did not have access to loaded firearms because the firearms were stored unloaded in a locked gun safe.

Even when they were teenagers and had learned to shoot and be safe I didn't give them the combination to the gun safe because I didn't want their friends having access to the firearms and doing something stupid.
My kids BOTH learned REALLY EARLY about safety. I let them see at a very young age what a firearm can do. They had healthy respect for the power.

I was able to leave loaded guns around the house because I knew they would not play with them. Now, my 18-year-old can circumcise a gnat at 300 yards with any rifle, and field strip it. And she just graduated cum laude YESTERDAY (in a school with a bunch of Indian immigrants no less)!!!
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
That kid could have just as easily drank some Drano.

And it's not the gun's fault it's the fault of the idiot parents.

Maybe we should require licenses to have kids
His parents didnt kill him. America did.
That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard...lol
 
The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.

The US was liberated by thr help of France. If they didn't enter world War 2 you would also be speaking German now.

The French were the difference between the Allies winning and losing?
The French entered WWII? On what date?

Dude I love this country and I would fight for it, but most Americans live worse than their counter parts in many industrial countries.

Cool story!
Can you show our median income vs. the median income of your "many industrial countries"?

Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.
We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.
We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.


Not entirely fair since income does not matter that much if you have things like free public heath care, reasonable housing, subsidized food, etc.

Unless the government is somehow creating those things out of thin air, you're paying for them out of your income via taxes.

We likely have more homelessness, unemployment, etc., than most countries.

Homelessness......maybe. Ending institutionalization wasn't such a good idea.
Unemployment...... what are you talking about?

We for sure have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

What are we supposed to do with our criminals?
Letting them run free wouldn't help most Americans live better.

We are not even very good at literacy, infant mortality, or life span.

Not like Cuba, eh?
You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France. Very happy population hardly any homeless, healthy individuals, great infrastructure, 5 to 6 weeks vacation a year, easy and cheaper access to higher education, no one goes bankrupt if they have to go to the hospital,

Dude the minute you exit the airport you see the contrast.

You probably haven't visited thr likes of Norway, Denmark, Germany, Japan and even France.

So what are their median incomes?
Maybe their after-tax incomes?

Very happy population

Smaller homes, fewer, smaller cars, lower standards of living.
Norway 51k
Denmark 43k
Germany 48k

Again it doesn't tell the whole story, most Europeans have better quality life than Americans. Thry rank better than Americans in education, health, happiness, life expectancy, etc...

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up. Houses in Tennessee and Ohio that go for 40 to 50k where most people live. As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Norway 51k

How much of their GDP is state owned oil?

Dude apart from some nice areas in big cities most homes in the US are old and beat up.

Lots of brand new homes in Norway, Denmark and Germany?

How does square footage compare?

As far as cars, you don't need it in Europe they have a good transportation systems.

Plus, gas is what, triple what we pay? More?
One of the biggest positives is that you can go to the shops without being shot and send your kids to school without them being slaughtered.

You focus on the material and that seems to be a conservative trait. Quality of life cannot be measured by just one metric.
Not in majority Muslim areas and remind us having your head hacked off is better then being shot.
Yes , the whole European experience can be summed up by one awful incident a decade ago. Can you dress yourself in the morning you fuckwit ?
one incident I guess all the attacks in France and Belgium and Germany never happened right? No no go zones in all European Countries right boob?
Name these no go zones ? I used to work in one that fox news described as such. The fact is that all of the countries you named are safer than the US. Stats dont lie but gun nuts do.


No, actually, they are not.......outside of democrat party controlled cities, the U.S. is as safe or safer than European countries, and the European countries are growing more and more dangerous each year.....as the 3rd world immigrants take control of organized crime.......

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.



And when you talk about gun violence, the majority of gun murder victims...over 70-80% of the victims, are not normal Americans.....they are criminals, murdered by other criminals in democrat party controlled cities.....and of the rest, the vast majority of gun murder victims are the friends and family...and sadly children, of career criminals and gang members murdered when they are caught in the murder attempt on the actual criminal....

As John Nolte puts it over at Breitbart....in MAGA country, we have guns, we just don't have gun crime....but in blue states and blue cities, they have almost all of the gun murder.....

You don't understand America Tommy, and you will understand gun violence, it is coming to Britain and the rest of Europe...
 
You have countries in Europe killing babies because they have Down Syndrome......

I think it was Iceland, a few years ago, about which I read an article about them boasting of almost completely eliminating Down Syndrome.

Of course, the way they achieved this was by murdering unborn children determined to have the condition.

That is how the Nazi Holocaust began—not with the massive death camps and gas chambers, but with smaller-scale operations to eliminate those determined to be substandard.
 

Its almost impossible to process this incident. What is wrong with you people ?
That kid could have just as easily drank some Drano.

And it's not the gun's fault it's the fault of the idiot parents.

Maybe we should require licenses to have kids
His parents didnt kill him. America did.


No.....a criminal using a gun illegally murdered him.

Meanwhile, the owners of the other 600 million guns in private hands and the over 19.4 million Americans who can legally carry guns for self defense did not shoot that child......

Can you see how big these numbers are and how small they show your opinion to be?
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.
 
You have countries in Europe killing babies because they have Down Syndrome......

I think it was Iceland, a few years ago, about which I read an article about them boasting of almost completely eliminating Down Syndrome.

Of course, the way they achieved this was by murdering unborn children determined to have the condition.

That is how the Nazi Holocaust began—not with the massive death camps and gas chambers, but with smaller-scale operations to eliminate those determined to be substandard.


Yep....in Europe, at the moment, they have criminal murder that is slowly increasing...but what they have had more of throughout history is government sponsored murder of innocent men, women and children.

In the U.S.....most of our murder is criminals murdering other criminals...

In Europe, most of their murder in history was government murdering innocent men, women and children.
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.
Make training mandatory in all high schools for EVERYONE!!!!

Or **** OFF!! We get machine guns.
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.


Yep...you are an anti-gun extremist....

And that 90% number is taken from uninformed Americans who you guys lie to about what you want.

Nothing you just posted addresses actual criminals who use guns illegally.

Everything you posted is just desired because it creates more legal red tape and legal peril for law abiding gun owners who, if they fail to cross the " T " and dot the " i " will have their lives destroyed for no reason.....
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.


The only reason you guys want universal background checks is so you can demand gun registration....

Universal Background Checks are the trojan horse you want to use to lie to uninformed Americans so you can fool them into giving you gun registration....

We already have mental health and domestic violence bans for gun ownership you idiot.....

Did you support poll taxes and literacy tests for voting too? Since any mandatory training or fee to own or carry a gun is no different from poll taxes and literacy tests for voting......
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.


The mandatory training and licensing...will they be free?
 
15th post
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.
No.

You can't have any of what you want, and none of what you claim is actually true.

YOU are the liar.


:auiqs.jpg:
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members

The only way you get those numbers is to lie to those taking the poll........but thanks for playing...

UPDATE: Michael Bloomberg put initiatives on the November 2016 ballots in Maine and Nevada to mandate background checks on the private transfer of guns. In Maine, the initiative lost by four percentage points despite Bloomberg outspending the opponents by a 6-to-1 margin. In Nevada, the initiative eeked out a 0.8 percentage point win, but because it didn’t include any funding, which was excluded to help it pass, the initiative never went into effect. Bloomberg outspent the initiative’s opponents by 3-to-1. An earlier initiative in Washington State passed more handily by a 59-to-41 percent margin, but supporters outspent opponents by a 50-to-1 margin.

Despite truly massive spending by gun control advocates to support these initiatives, none of them have come within 20 percentage points of the most conservative claims about polls for universal background checks.

Original Post (December 24, 2013): Earlier this year Nate Silver assured people that there were solid polls showing “Overwhelming majorities of 80 to 90 percent of the public say they favor background checks.” See also here. On Monday, soon to be former Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Shannon Watts (with Moms Demand Action) repeated the claim and make the related point that even among NRA members “74 percent support background checks for all gun sales” (this last poll number was paid for by Bloomberg). Indeed the notion that the NRA isn’t representing members of the NRA has become a common claim made by gun control organizations. But there were a couple major problems with these poll numbers: 1) People were really just being asked about whether they wanted to keep criminals from getting guns, not about a particular piece of legislation. 2) The surveys asked a vague question with no information on how the current system works.

Polls about specific proposals produce dramatically lower levels of support.

There was a poll in April by the PEW Research Center that gets at the first issue and I think is much more accurate. It asks people whether they are happy that the Senate gun control bill was stopped in April. Apparently, both Republicans and Independents are generally happy that it was stopped by 51-to-34 and 48-to-41 margins. My guess is that Republican Senators are paying a lot more attention to what Independents and Republicans wanted than Democrats who would never have voted for the Republicans anyway. It looks to me that Republicans voted the way that their constituents wanted. So Republicans shouldn’t really care that among all voters the poll showed support of 47 to 39 percent. If you want to explain why Republican Senators voted against the measure, you should look at the results by political affiliation.



 
Make training mandatory in all high schools for EVERYONE!!!!

When I was in high school, I took JROTC, Part of that course included proper and safe handling and use of firearms. It even included some hands-on use of fully-automatic arms, which most civilians never get the chance to handle, including the M16 rifle and M60 machine gun.

I think that such training ought to be a part of every standard high school curriculum.

This would obviate any need/excuse for training or licensing requirements as a condition of being allowed to exercise one's Second Amendment rights; as anyone who had graduated from High School would be presumed to have been appropriately trained in firearm safety.
 
A six-year-old boy was tragically shot and killed in a suspected road rage attack after his mother gave another driver the finger.


Shame on Mom for having road rage.

May her son RIP.

Valid point. Bad idea to flip people off.
Its something that we can do over here. And go home afterwards.

But you don't get to compensate for having a small penis by carrying a gun around with you.
Its a cross we have to bear. Being able to leave the house and come home afterwards is some compensation but there is still that gap in my life.


Except the women of London...right? Your muslim mayor in London stated that London is not safe for women or girls......

No big city is safe for unaccompanied women or girls after dark unless there are a lot of people out.


Wrong...we are told Britain is safer because they banned and confiscated guns.....

Women and girls are not safe in London....the capitol of this gun free paradise....

These American women were safer because they had guns....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.


There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

Waking up to an armed intruder in your house would be any home owner’s worst nightmare. If you’re a single mother with two young kids in the house, finding a man wielding a machete in your bedroom closet immediately kicks you into “momma bear” mode.

That’s what happened to a California woman who woke up to the sound of a man rummaging through her walk-in closet. The thief — Ocean Burger (his name, not a restaurant) — was armed with a number of knives and a machete when the un-named woman grabbed a handgun and confronted him.

From ksbw.com . . .


[Investigators] say Burger ignored orders to leave and when the homeowner fired several warning shots he allegedly advanced towards her, that’s when the mother fired at the accused burglar hitting him in the leg. And California law may be on her side.

Warning shots are never a good idea and could even put you in legal jeopardy in many jurisdictions. In this case, they not only wasted perfectly good (and expensive) ammunition, but probably led Burger to believe she wasn’t serious about actually shooting him.

After advancing on the woman, the round in his leg apparently convinced Burger that he was wrong.

The good news is California actually has a castle doctrine law on the books. The woman had no duty to retreat and was legally justified in using deadly force to defend herself and her children.

“There is a presumption that favors the homeowner they’re presumed that the person is in imminent fear of either death or great bodily injury,” said Ellen Campos, assistant district attorney for San Benito county. …

California Woman Shoots Machete-Wielding Burglar She Found in Her Closet - The Truth About Guns
=============
How did guns keep this child safe ?


At that moment, they didn't.......

How did guns keep 1.1 million Americans who used their legal guns to stop rape, robbery and murder, safe?

The question you don't ask, is why this individual chose to fire that weapon. There are 600 million guns in private hands in the U.S....over 19.5 million Americans can legally carry guns in public for self defense...

They did not shoot their guns at anyone....

The problem isn't having a gun, the problem is whatever created this individual.

We have the democrat party. When our police catch violent gun criminals, democrat party judges and prosecutors let them out of jail and prison over and ovre again...it is these individuals doing over 95% of our gun crime and gun murder...

The question should be, why are they releasing the criminals who actually do shootings like this instead of keeping them in jail.

Don't worry tommy...your country is entering this stage of crime....you will have to deal with it yourselves..

Link us to your 1.1 mil claim please - Studies by your beloved (and corrupt) NRA or other barrel stoker sites unacceptable ;)
so does he have to use your anti gun sites?...

Nope, just a source to prove he didn’t pull 1.1 million butt nuggets out of his prodigious ass.
You got one?
your the one who said that to him not me...apparently you dont have better source either do you?...

No one can disprove an ass nugget Harry my boy.
Up to him to back up those with FACTS.
1.1m? :lol:
to him he did back them up.....its up to you to disprove his "facts".....
Vagabond63 has debunked his figures many time on here Harry. he will be along at some point to do it again.


No, he hasn't....he says ..."I debunk thy numbers...." and then goes away.......I have shown the research from the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, two anti-gun government agencies....
Your figures are 50 years old in some cases and cant be verified anyway.I cant be arsed going over it with you.

The main research was done in the 90s by Gary Kleck, followed by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, under orders by bill clinton to disprove Kleck's research.......and they couldn't...

And at the time in the 90s there were 200 million guns in private hands and only 4.7 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...

Now?

There are 600 million guns and over 19.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense...so tell us how the defensive gun use numbers from the 90s went down as more Americans were able to protect themselves......go ahead, we'll be over here laughing at you...
Yes.....actual research, with obama telling the CDC to go through all gun research in 2013....and coming up with 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses...


You guys can't hide the research....

So somewhere between 500,000 and three million? :laughing0301:


Are you really this dumb...I gave you 17 studies...obama's CDC reviewed all of the gun research......you idiot.....

Cool, but you’ve yet to define an instance of “defensive use” ... You clown :laugh2:


And the Department of Justice research under bill clinton....conducted by two, rabid, anti-gunners...

The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate.

Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?"

Answers in the affirmative were followed with "How many different times did you use a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or property in the past 12 months?" Negative answers to the first DGU question were followed by "Have you ever used a gun to defend yourself or someone else?" (emphasis in original).


Each respondent who answered yes to either of these DGU questions was asked a sequence of 30 additional questions concerning the most recent defensive gun use in which the respondent was involved, including the respondent's actions with the gun, the location and other circumstances of the incident, and the respondent's relationship to the perpetrator. Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a person (exhibit 7).

Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

============

A somewhat more conservative NSPOF estimate is shown in the column of exhibit 7 that reflects the application of the criteria used by Kleck and Gertz to identify "genuine" defensive gun uses.

Respondents were excluded on the basis of the most recent DGU description for any of the following reasons: the respondent did not see a perpetrator; the respondent could not state a specific crime that was involved in the incident; or the respondent did not actually display the gun or mention it to the perpetrator.

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users.

This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error.

========

Some troubling comparisons.

If the DGU numbers are in the right ballpark, millions of attempted assaults, thefts, and break-ins were foiled by armed citizens during the 12- month period. According to these results, guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime. (Firearms were used by perpetrators in 1.07 million incidents of violent crime in 1994, according to NCVS data.)



Bla Bla ******* BLAAAAAH


You have been shown to be an idiot....I have backed up everything I posted, even as you hurt your back moving the goal posts every single time...

You are an idiot...you have no rational reason for anything you believe...

But thanks....I needed to consolidate some of this info. and your stupid posts gave me a reason to do it...

OR perhaps I’ve seen one too many of your 12,000 word cut n pastes?
Yes indeed - consolidate in order to have more barrel stoking c&p’s for immediate regurgitation!
One in 200 Americans thwarts a crime or defends themself with a gun each year? :lol:


Tommy made a challenge.....I posted a response that showed once again that he, like you and the other anti-gun extremists have no rational arguments for what you believe.

I’m a gun owner loony bird. This makes me an “anti-gun extremist” :confused-84:
You shot your street cred in the foot f’n YEARS ago.


Yeah......and anti-gun extremists want their own guns, but want to take guns away from everyone else.....you idiot...you are the classic example.

You have a vivid imagination but no, I want no such thing.


Yeah.....let's test that out...

Your thoughts on ...

--gun registration

--gun licenses

--universal background checks

--magazine limits

--AR-15 rifles...

That list should let us know a lot about your position on 2nd Amendment Rights...

Sure ...

100% universal BG checks including sales involving unlicensed sellers.
3 day waiting period and expansion of checks to include domestic violence and obvious mental health challenges.
4 hours mandatory classroom and range training.
Mandatory training & licensing on concealed carry.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members (not that this remains a badge of honor ;-)

YOU are the outlier.

Over 90% of the country want these things including over 70% of NRA members

The only way you get those numbers is to lie to those taking the poll........but thanks for playing...

UPDATE: Michael Bloomberg put initiatives on the November 2016 ballots in Maine and Nevada to mandate background checks on the private transfer of guns. In Maine, the initiative lost by four percentage points despite Bloomberg outspending the opponents by a 6-to-1 margin. In Nevada, the initiative eeked out a 0.8 percentage point win, but because it didn’t include any funding, which was excluded to help it pass, the initiative never went into effect. Bloomberg outspent the initiative’s opponents by 3-to-1. An earlier initiative in Washington State passed more handily by a 59-to-41 percent margin, but supporters outspent opponents by a 50-to-1 margin.

Despite truly massive spending by gun control advocates to support these initiatives, none of them have come within 20 percentage points of the most conservative claims about polls for universal background checks.

Original Post (December 24, 2013): Earlier this year Nate Silver assured people that there were solid polls showing “Overwhelming majorities of 80 to 90 percent of the public say they favor background checks.” See also here. On Monday, soon to be former Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Shannon Watts (with Moms Demand Action) repeated the claim and make the related point that even among NRA members “74 percent support background checks for all gun sales” (this last poll number was paid for by Bloomberg). Indeed the notion that the NRA isn’t representing members of the NRA has become a common claim made by gun control organizations. But there were a couple major problems with these poll numbers: 1) People were really just being asked about whether they wanted to keep criminals from getting guns, not about a particular piece of legislation. 2) The surveys asked a vague question with no information on how the current system works.

Polls about specific proposals produce dramatically lower levels of support.

There was a poll in April by the PEW Research Center that gets at the first issue and I think is much more accurate. It asks people whether they are happy that the Senate gun control bill was stopped in April. Apparently, both Republicans and Independents are generally happy that it was stopped by 51-to-34 and 48-to-41 margins. My guess is that Republican Senators are paying a lot more attention to what Independents and Republicans wanted than Democrats who would never have voted for the Republicans anyway. It looks to me that Republicans voted the way that their constituents wanted. So Republicans shouldn’t really care that among all voters the poll showed support of 47 to 39 percent. If you want to explain why Republican Senators voted against the measure, you should look at the results by political affiliation.




2a invokes his secret trove of cut-n-paste moonbattery :lol:
 
Back
Top Bottom