Movie Dialog and the Deterioration of Culture

[Modbert]

Interesting you mention the Horror Genre, and Saw I -VII.

Here is really a Story that Never Gets Old. Sure the special FX get more gore, but its still Snidley Whiplash Tieing Sweet Nell to the Tracks.

I was remarking more of the fact that Saw is torture porn. Meanwhile, Horror use to mean something. Even during the 80's with the monsters killing teenagers, Michael Myers was a great Horror character. You had Romero in his prime previously, Hitchcock as previously mentioned, etc.

Willing to bet you that most people have no idea who Conrad Veidt is. But if you ever seen The Man Who Laughs or read a Bob Kane interview on the Joker, you'd come to find out that he is the inspiration for the Joker character look.

Imagine seeing this in theaters in 1928? And it wasn't even intentional horror, The Man Who Laughs was originally a Victor Hugo novel.



Note: In summary, it's not the moviemakers fault even for the most part for the trend. It's the general public's fault. If a movie like Saw is going to make $100 million+ profit but a horror movie with an actual great plot only makes half that then which is going to be made?

 

[Samson]

Some of you may like to watch old movies.

What do I mean by "Old?"

If a man and woman kissed in an "old movie," then the next scene showed him putting on his tie, everyone knew what had happened without a freaking explicite scene designed to leave no confusion in the minds of the Bone-Headed.

The dialog was witty banter.

There was, not could there be, much reliance on technology to entertain the viewer: there had to be a STORY.

I wonder if writing good movies has become simply impossible, or has the public become so stupid that the market for well written dialog evaporated?

I voted for too stupid to write but I also feel people are more concerned with special effects than the storyline and acting.

Its a shame. Most new movies are just blah as far as plot and substance go.

In that regard, this is a fad too. Comics experienced this in the 90's... and in a way is STILL experiencing it because they got caught up in the art. Darn near wrecked Marvel. Well, it sure did their shared universe because the Kewl Fanboy Bait racked up so much initial dough. Then everyone did it and people got bored. Writers moved on and hacks replaced them. It's starting to reverse, but slowly. I remember a bit of advice I got at a comicon once when I was looking to get in the business...

"Art gets the first buy... story keeps them coming back."

So applicable to so many things.

Westerns.

IMHO there are still stories there....to me it is the most "realistic of Sci Fi....." when an advanced civilization encroaches on a tribal culture in a lawless environment....Iraq should produce many more interesting films.

 

[Samson]

Interesting you mention the Horror Genre, and Saw I -VII.

Here is really a Story that Never Gets Old. Sure the special FX get more gore, but its still Snidley Whiplash Tieing Sweet Nell to the Tracks.

I was remarking more of the fact that Saw is torture porn. Meanwhile, Horror use to mean something. Even during the 80's with the monsters killing teenagers, Michael Myers was a great Horror character. You had Romero in his prime previously, Hitchcock as previously mentioned, etc.

Willing to bet you that most people have no idea who Conrad Veidt is. But if you ever seen The Man Who Laughs or read a Bob Kane interview on the Joker, you'd come to find out that he is the inspiration for the Joker character look.

Imagine seeing this in theaters in 1928? And it wasn't even intentional horror, The Man Who Laughs was originally a Victor Hugo novel.

View attachment 9152

Note: In summary, it's not the moviemakers fault even for the most part for the trend. It's the general public's fault. If a movie like Saw is going to make $100 million+ profit but a horror movie with an actual great plot only makes half that then which is going to be made?

Since I'm at loss to find "a horror movie with an actual great plot" (e.g. Interview with a Vampire?) that would be popular among its traditional audience of Horny Teenagers (well before Michael Myers began slashing co-eds during Halloween...Frakenstein, etc.), I'm not sure I could comment.

I don't consider Hitchcock Horror as much as Suspense.

 

[xsited1]

Some of you may like to watch old movies.

What do I mean by "Old?"

If a man and woman kissed in an "old movie," then the next scene showed him putting on his tie, everyone knew what had happened without a freaking explicite scene designed to leave no confusion in the minds of the Bone-Headed.

The dialog was witty banter.

There was, not could there be, much reliance on technology to entertain the viewer: there had to be a STORY.

I wonder if writing good movies has become simply impossible, or has the public become so stupid that the market for well written dialog evaporated?

I know what you mean. There are a lot more gay and colored people in today's movies. The old movies didn't have that sort of filth.

Yes they did.

It wasn't obvious to the typical Bone-Head...

oops, sorry xsited....***someone peed in my cornflakes***

My, you're thick!

My wife and I are old movie addicts. We have a huge collection of the classics. There are also great movies made today. You just have to know how to pick them.

BTW, you sound like an old codger. I'll remind my kids not to play on your lawn.

 

[Samson]

I know what you mean. There are a lot more gay and colored people in today's movies. The old movies didn't have that sort of filth.

Yes they did.

It wasn't obvious to the typical Bone-Head...

oops, sorry xsited....***someone peed in my cornflakes***

My, you're thick!

My wife and I are old movie addicts. We have a huge collection of the classics. There are also great movies made today. You just have to know how to pick them.

BTW, you sound like an old codger. I'll remind my kids not to play on your lawn.

I've just been watching a lot of Turner Classic Movie Channel because there's no advertisements that blow out my eardrums.

 

[rightwinger]

What happened was it was easier to throw some T&A into the movie to draw a certain interest. Were old movies better? In some ways yes, but there were still a lot of stinkers just like today

 

[Samson]

What happened was it was easier to throw some T&A into the movie to draw a certain interest. Were old movies better? In some ways yes, but there were still a lot of stinkers just like today

No doubt there are good movies today.

My point is that the writing contains much less dialog, and what dialog there is certainly doesn't take much more than a 5th grade education to comprehend.

 

[Big Fitz]

I voted for too stupid to write but I also feel people are more concerned with special effects than the storyline and acting.

Its a shame. Most new movies are just blah as far as plot and substance go.

In that regard, this is a fad too. Comics experienced this in the 90's... and in a way is STILL experiencing it because they got caught up in the art. Darn near wrecked Marvel. Well, it sure did their shared universe because the Kewl Fanboy Bait racked up so much initial dough. Then everyone did it and people got bored. Writers moved on and hacks replaced them. It's starting to reverse, but slowly. I remember a bit of advice I got at a comicon once when I was looking to get in the business...

"Art gets the first buy... story keeps them coming back."

So applicable to so many things.

Westerns.

IMHO there are still stories there....to me it is the most "realistic of Sci Fi....." when an advanced civilization encroaches on a tribal culture in a lawless environment....Iraq should produce many more interesting films.

Ugh... that's the one thing I hate about SF movies is the all too often used blending of the two genres. It's why I really REALLY wanted to like Firefly, but I'm sorry, I just constantly flashed back to a critique of Star Trek that said "It's "Wagon Train"... only in space."

The movie Serendipity though was stellar, although the Shepard and Companion get short shrift. The movie backed off the twangy country music and made the 'western' feel blend more with more interesting cultural elements IMHO.

 

[Polk]

Then again, I really liked Reservoir Dogs, and laughed till I was in pain at The 40 Year Old Virgin, so I don't say there is no place for cussing, but cussing for the sake of cussing, or being real, is nothing for a filmmaker or screenwriter to aim for.

Exactly!

 

[Samson]

What happened was it was easier to throw some T&A into the movie to draw a certain interest. Were old movies better? In some ways yes, but there were still a lot of stinkers just like today

There seems to have been a revolt against "stilted" dialog?

A lot of the old movies used so much dialog, that it seems a little ridiculous today.....or did people actually speak that way in 1950's? I mean the long, monologs of run-on sentences?

Today, with communication reduced to text messages, I expect a "Bact to the Future:" Films will eventually become silent again, with only characters' text messages appearing on the screen.