Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

[kaz]

Hard to believe it is conservative Republicans who are defending the confederacy

Actually, it's not hard at all...it's evident in everything they do and say.

Marcheadshoveduphisass. If you support state rights and consent of the governed, you support slavery.

Bull, you're just a moron. Dude ... think. Your head is not just a place to put your glasses

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.

States rights to own human beings as slaves.

You didn't complete the sentence. I did it for you.

It was about slavery and nothing else.

Tell me what right did those states want that the federal government wanted to take from them beyond the right to own human beings a slaves.

We had the same issues with “States Rights” during the Civil Rights struggle.

States insisted on a right to treat citizens as lesser citizens

I was a child at the time and couldn't understand what the big problem was.

I will never understand


I know .

Girlymen Projecting an Excuse for Their Decadence

Confused and depressed Liberal weaklings are inferior in everything else. so, like Puritans, they need to make up a sin like "racism" in order to at least feel morally superior.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

No, the south had already seceded. They were fighting an invasion. The invasion was not to free the slaves, therefore the Civil War was not fought over slavery.

For some people it wasn't about slavery.
For some people it was.

It all came down to slavery and racism

For some it came down to loyalty to a State vs loyalty to a Federal Government.

Every College Graduate Can Be Replaced by Someone With a Higher IQ Who Didn't Graduate From College

Here is what Diploma Dumbos don't know about grammar and how changes in it change minds. Before the Civil War, the correct phrase was "The United States are." Postbellum, it became "The United States is."

When you have a heart attack or are in a car accident and need your life to be saved, the last place you should go is to a hospital for help or even to a paramedic or EMT. All of them graduated from college. Or if you find a hard lump in your body like your breast or leg etc, don't do anything about it. Just go to one of those higher IQ people who didn't graduate college to do all the proper tests on it then treat it to save your life.
aduates.

This is fun. You make it so easy to show all of cyberspace what a total fool you are. LOL. I'm having a great time.

Coolie College

College is work without pay. That is the worst form of slavery, slavery of the best. Slavery of vicious Low IQ African savages was not wrong at all. In this thread, we have all the proof any High IQ needs to show how dumb the Lincoln-loving Abolitionists here are.

Your post shows the Low IQ of those who defend educationist slavery. If someone says we need to recruit better policemen, does that mean he wants to fire all the present policemen and let the feral predatory races wreck the entire city? Your fake education is what makes it necessary to stretch what the other side says in order to think you've proved something.

Any intelligent person would see that I propose paying the few who belong in college (not the Diploma Dumbos produced under this system) a high student salary in order to get brains to go there instead of the worthless and economy-weakening bluebloods and brownnoses who graduate now. Escapist sissy nerds may have started out with HIgh IQs, but this slavery atrophies their mental abilities. They wind up spouting robotic gibberish, just like you.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Secession was about slavery. The Civil War wasnt about slavery. The Civil War was about secession.

A = B = C

The war was about slavery. Period.

Slavery was a symptom. The south was motivated by economics. Slavery was part of economics. You dont grasp root causes

The South was capable of paying its workforce. Cotton was a huge cash cow and plantation owners made fortunes. The workers who planted, maintained the crop, picked the crop and brought it to market received zero compensation.

The Aristocrats and Sweatshop Owners Get Off Scot-Free in This MInd-Controlled Thread

The Africans got room and board, protection from their own predators, medical services, and many other benefits they never got back in the jungle. Most Whites at the time lived in misery, with the Jews and Irish being treated worse than slaves. The most miserable lifestyle in the whole world was that of the Africans who got stuck back in the jungle. That is, if you don't consider selling their fellow Blacks into slavery as being high entertainment.

Your posting style is tedious

Your celebration of slavery is not worth reading

Every Liberal Is Motivated by a Secret Desire to Be Raped by Some Sweaty Beast

Your celebration of the unevolved races' crime, mooching, laziness, and Low IQs shows that your ilk belongs in the jungle in order to celebrate your Death Wish decadence, instead of preaching it to us.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Sumter was no longer within the US, the US had no right to maintain a garrison there.


.

It was Federal property not state property

S Carolina had no right to it

Sure they did, it was part of the area that was withdrawn from the union.


.

Winger seems to forget that the whole South with the exception of West Virginia withdrew from the Union.

They have no rights to Federal property

Well anything in the south belonged to the south. Once they seceded it belong to them.

And they did secede.

Diploma Dumbos Don't Even Understand the Concept of Similar Historical Circumstances

What happened to the Soviet Union's property in the republics that seceded from it in the 90s?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Not many Southerners owned slaves you idiot.

States Rights was the biggest concern.

Ok what right did those states have that the federal government was trying to take from them beyond owning human beings as slaves?

I've asked that question for decades yet not one conservative can answer it honestly or without deflection.

So I invite you to be the first conservative to honestly answer that question without any filibuster or deflection.

Oh slavery was a part of it but the Southern States didn't like the Fed telling them what they could couldn't do.

Slavery was barbaric and I'm glad it was one of the things that was changed because of the civil war but it still wasn't the main reason for that war.

So what was the federal government telling them to do that they didn't want to do?

The answer, the lazy people in the south didn't want to have to actually work for a living. They didn't want to stop owning human beings as slaves.

You can deny it all you want. I'm not here to get you to see reality and truth. However by denying truth you're giving me and others the opportunity to show all of cyberspace just how down right cowardly and dishonest you are. It's fun watching you make a fool of yourself and other posters make fools of you. Keep it up. I can't believe you like showing all of cyberspace how much you like to make a fool of yourself. You're great comic relief. LOL.

LOL...they didn't want to work for a living? Is that your version of the truth? Bringing that forward, evidently Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, and Howard Shultz are too fricken lazy to work for a living.

Oh really?

Then why were all those slaves doing all the work while the masters didn't?

Owners Aren't Earners


Why were the Northern wage-slaves doing all the work while the stockholders didn't?

 

[Pogo]

The only one celebrating slavery seems to be you.

No one on this board approved of slavery. It was barbaric and everyone on this board knows it. The op is about what caused the Civil War.

You think it was slavery. I and others think it was more about State Rights. Slavery was a part of it but not the main part. We have a difference of opinion. Period.

Hell the emancipation proclamation wasn't signed till 1863. That should tell anyone smarter than a rock that slavery wasn't the major cause of the civil war. If it had been that bill would have been signed three years earlier.

It wasn't a bill, it was an illegal proclamation made by Lincoln. Slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13th Amendment.


.

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Let me re-paste the title of my post while you explain to me why you keep typing all these words that don't disprove my point..

Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

Ok, continue.

You would have done just as well to make the title:

"Most conservatives believe the world is spherical."

Because, as has been demonstrated repeatedly, the cause of the WAR was secession. Slavery was the underlying issue, but no shots would have been fired had no one tried to stop states from leaving the union.

You have proved yourself to be a simpleton, incapable of acknowledging nuance. Congratulations.

No, what happened was you slavery apologists reflexively started making excuses for slave-holding states..and opine about how you wish the South won...

**** you and your lost cause confederate revisionism..

-- Science -- another thing next to history, that conservatives are often on the wrong side of

Abolitionists Were Rich Snobs Who Hated the White Working Class

Race traitors who don't believe in The Bell Curve are on the wrong side of science.

 

[Pogo]

Lincoln was a genocidal murderer.

Yes he was. He was a traitor who should have been hung in 1861, before he got his murderous unjust war going.

What for?

 

[Wyatt earp]

No, it was A issue, just because you view the expansion of government, tariffs on your main resource, and the erosion of state rights, as petty issues, it does not make them so, and as a matter of fact, the South's economy happens to have been a VERY large issue, right up next to the erosion of their rights, and those two together formed the primary issue, Slavery was a SUB-issue.t.

Not according to the Confederate states.

Hardly a mention about tariffs.

And the South's economy? That was largely built around slavery- and the single largest capital in the South- so when you say that the South was trying to protect their economy- you are saying that the South was trying to protect their right to own human property to advance their economy.

The Tariff of Abominations had been in place for decades, mentioning it at the point would have been a waste of time, and even if they had cited it as a reason, it wouldn't have mattered due to the fact that they were already opting out. They cited the most recent slight against them, and then chose to opt out..

Wow- so you really believe that the reason the South seceded- is just what you imagine it to be- rather than the actual words in which they declared the reasons that they seceded.

I am guessing you voted for Trump.

I added citations and quotes, as well as a link to the actual document text, which you ignored, because I had proven you wrong. Since you neglected to counter any of my points and citations, I'll accept your admission of defeat.

You provided a citation- and I am glad to quote from it
The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
And note it doesn't mention tariffs that I can find- but every one of them references slavery at least once- most multiple times.

Georgia:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Mississipi
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. T

South Carolina
In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

Texas:
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confedera

Virginia

and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

You're a aoxk of g5000

 

[OKTexas]

Ok what right did those states have that the federal government was trying to take from them beyond owning human beings as slaves?

I've asked that question for decades yet not one conservative can answer it honestly or without deflection.

So I invite you to be the first conservative to honestly answer that question without any filibuster or deflection.

Oh slavery was a part of it but the Southern States didn't like the Fed telling them what they could couldn't do.

Slavery was barbaric and I'm glad it was one of the things that was changed because of the civil war but it still wasn't the main reason for that war.

So what was the federal government telling them to do that they didn't want to do?

The answer, the lazy people in the south didn't want to have to actually work for a living. They didn't want to stop owning human beings as slaves.

You can deny it all you want. I'm not here to get you to see reality and truth. However by denying truth you're giving me and others the opportunity to show all of cyberspace just how down right cowardly and dishonest you are. It's fun watching you make a fool of yourself and other posters make fools of you. Keep it up. I can't believe you like showing all of cyberspace how much you like to make a fool of yourself. You're great comic relief. LOL.

LOL...they didn't want to work for a living? Is that your version of the truth? Bringing that forward, evidently Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, and Howard Shultz are too fricken lazy to work for a living.

Oh really?

Then why were all those slaves doing all the work while the masters didn't?

Owners Aren't Earners


Why were the Northern wage-slaves doing all the work while the stockholders didn't?

You obviously never owned a business. Owners supply the location, supervision, supplies and tools employees use to do their work. The more complicated the product, the more work it takes to have everything in place for a worker to even have a job.


.

 

[OKTexas]

The only one celebrating slavery seems to be you.

No one on this board approved of slavery. It was barbaric and everyone on this board knows it. The op is about what caused the Civil War.

You think it was slavery. I and others think it was more about State Rights. Slavery was a part of it but not the main part. We have a difference of opinion. Period.

Hell the emancipation proclamation wasn't signed till 1863. That should tell anyone smarter than a rock that slavery wasn't the major cause of the civil war. If it had been that bill would have been signed three years earlier.

It wasn't a bill, it was an illegal proclamation made by Lincoln. Slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13th Amendment.


.

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

Seems I said two posts up in this string, slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13 amendment.


.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Then I say, you don't understand tariffs! If we had two countries here and the economic powerhouse of the two was controlled by one policy always going to the North you'd see the hateful and vengeful economic edging out that happened. The South had 75% of the world's cotton, they expected to stop sending it would cause worldwide reaction, its at least expectable. The tariff or industrial protectionism used to spread Britain's industrial revolution to the united states industry, constantly and always is Thomas stonewall Jackson I assume others talking about the bankers, the factories, I'm sorry its not as sexy as you like it to be, but absolutely vital, to the country's understanding after the war another 100 years, good old Robert E. Lee's rocking chair and Ulysses Grant's leather meeting chair, and the morality of family unit and the immorality of non-union labor and factories. The tariff meant the south against its will was dragged into the North's closed little society and closed out of the international markets, wehre we could produce the cotton by ahem particular means competitively with the Entire world, the nation was Used to build the North's industrial capability.

Log-Cabin Republican

Stalin did that industrializartion-supremacy in Russia, and, percentage-wise, he killed fewer of his own nation's people than Lincoln did

 

[Pogo]

The only one celebrating slavery seems to be you.

No one on this board approved of slavery. It was barbaric and everyone on this board knows it. The op is about what caused the Civil War.

You think it was slavery. I and others think it was more about State Rights. Slavery was a part of it but not the main part. We have a difference of opinion. Period.

Hell the emancipation proclamation wasn't signed till 1863. That should tell anyone smarter than a rock that slavery wasn't the major cause of the civil war. If it had been that bill would have been signed three years earlier.

It wasn't a bill, it was an illegal proclamation made by Lincoln. Slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13th Amendment.


.

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

Seems I said two posts up in this string, slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13 amendment.

Dunno, but above you posted that Lincoln had no authority to proclaim slavery illegal.
Maybe you should, y'know, pick one.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

For the South it was about 'economics'- the economics of slavery.

Most of the South's capital was invested in slaves. Most fo their production was produced with slaves.

AND- slaves themselves were a commodity to them- a commodity that they 'farmed' just as much as any proud owner of a herd of cattle does- and that was what they were to the South- a very valuable herd of humans.

Slavery is not why the north fought. But slavery is why the South tried to secede- and they fought do defend their secession attempt.

I would only disagree with the bold part. What they were to white people (North and South). That seems to be the hang up in these discussions many times. All white people, North and South, (with the exception of very few) viewed blacks as lesser humans.

Otherwise, I don't disagree.

Yet those northern whites defended their country against racist terrorists, and kicked their inbred ass so hard that their descendents are now bitching from the safety of a keyboard about things “should” be, and reminiscing about the 50’s. They even elected a white nationalist as POTUS thinking their country will be white again.... LoL.

The supermajority of those northern whites were also racist, and plenty were terrorists about it.

your southern ideology has been shown to be not only racist, but intellectually retarded.

Catch a Whigger by the Toe

That slur indicates a typical Bell Curve denier's contradiction in attitude.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

Imprimatur et Imperemus

Your histwhorians are merely stenographers for the White-hating ruling-class Whites.

 

[Polishprince]

Catch a Whigger by the Toe

That slur indicates a typical Bell Curve denier's contradiction in attitude.

Whigger is a slur against white people, white boys who appropriate black culture by wearing their pants in the Afrocentric "sagging" mode.

Maybe its in bad taste, but whites should not appropriate African American cultural norms.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

You po black chile, ****** been mean to you?

Your horse broke down on the way to a cross burning or something?

I just cut a watermelon, c'mon over. Thank me, my ancestors helped free you.

No thanks, Trump also said he didn’t pay off a porn star, so just like him, you can’t be trusted.

Is it hard to chew with one tooth?

Liberal Girlyman Masochism

Why don't you let one of your pet African thugs mug you and find out?

 

[OKTexas]

It wasn't a bill, it was an illegal proclamation made by Lincoln. Slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13th Amendment.


.

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

Seems I said two posts up in this string, slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13 amendment.

Dunno, but above you posted that Lincoln had no authority to proclaim slavery illegal.
Maybe you should, y'know, pick one.

He didn't it was still legal in the US, the first two sentences of the Constitution tells you a president has no legislative authority. Even in the proclamation he referred to the States, if in fact he still considered them States, his authority was constitutionally restricted to unilaterally pass a law.


.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

why do the defenders of the traitorous confederacy have such trouble acknowledging reality?

Harvard's Haughty Harbor

The North's race treason was far worse than treason to the government it monopolized.