More than 1,400 millionaires paid no U.S. income taxes in 2009, according to the IRS

[The T]

How do you make that leap that I'm against taxes? Taxes are a necessary evil.. I get that. Good grief...

They are indeed necessary to fund the government...even the Founders knew it.

But they warned about the degree, and the balance. Right now? The balance is in favour of Government by a long shot...too large to the point it is choking off the citizen.

Really? Our tax burden is the lowest its been in generations. No one argues against that.

Unless YOU have a link? I will file this post under yaksqueeze.

 

[BillyV]

It makes no sense because you're choosing to not think about it.

Person A works in a factory. He works hard all year building products and at the end of the year he has earned $50,000.

Person B sits in front of his computer at home and moves money around in the stock market. One day he gets lucky and makes $50,000. He then decides he doesn't need to do anything more the rest of the year.

Under our current system, Person B is rewarded with a lower tax rate and Person A is punished with a higher one. Person A is punished for working hard all year and building products.

How long before Person A stops doing that?

Actually, in most cases where someone was relying on capital gains for income (if we assume Person B is trading often), both would pay the exact same rate;

Would you feel better if I said Person B earned income from qualified dividends? In that case, Person B wouldn't have to do anything productive all year and could earn more than a coal miner while paying less in taxes.

In that case (raising the rate on qualified dividends) Person B would likely shift his preference from dividend-paying stocks (mainly mature companies with slow growth but lots of employees) to stocks of companies that either keep their cash for further growth or are more likely to engage in stock repurchase arrangements to use up excess cash. Then Person B would simply sell shares when he needed funds and again be subject only to the capital gains tax. This would injure the very companies that provide the majority of jobs in the country. Those mature companies would be required to either raise their dividends to maintain shareholders interested in income (draining productive cash) or having their stock price suffer. You might be interested to know that Microsoft paid its first dividend shortly after the 2003 tax act reduced the rate on dividends to 15%. And by the way, the "double taxation" issue for dividends is much more clearly apparent, since a dividend is always a distribution of previously taxed corporate income.

 

[Dr Grump]

I had to stop reading when you said the world was not fooled. Many intelligence agencies around the world believed Saddam, and took him at his word.

There would be no point in continuing any discussion if you can not acknowledge that fact,.

Those in opposition were found to have profited from the BS for oil program.

You seem a bit slow just sayin................

The fact you won't address my other points speaks volumes of your mind set.

The world fell lock step behind the US because they believed YOUR intelligence. Some did not, including my govt. Including me.

Just because they profited from the oil program doesn't mean they believed Sadman had WMDs and were giving him a free pass. There are plenty of threads on other boards (some now closed like the old CNN one) where I, and plenty of others, didn't believe what was going down and pointed to reasons why.

If you fell for it, that is on you...

Let's see - I have said from Day 1 there were know WMD's. You naively believed there were. I was right, you were wrong. If I'm slow what does that make you? Lobotomised?

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

They are indeed necessary to fund the government...even the Founders knew it.

But they warned about the degree, and the balance. Right now? The balance is in favour of Government by a long shot...too large to the point it is choking off the citizen.

Really? Our tax burden is the lowest its been in generations. No one argues against that.

Unless YOU have a link? I will file this post under yaksqueeze.

is this what you're asking?



Year $10,001 $20,001 $60,001 $100,001 $250,001
1913 1% 2% 3% 5% 6%
1914 1% 2% 3% 5% 6%
1916 2% 3% 5% 7% 10%
1918 16% 21% 41% 64% 72%
1920 12% 17% 37% 60% 68%
1922 10% 16% 36% 56% 58%
1924 7% 11% 27% 43% 44%
1926 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1928 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1930 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1932 10% 16% 36% 56% 58%
1934 11% 19% 37% 56% 58%
1936 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1938 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1940 14% 28% 51% 62% 68%
1942 38% 55% 75% 85% 88%
1944 41% 59% 81% 92% 94%
1946 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1948 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1950 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1952 42% 62% 80% 90% 92%
1954 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1956 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1958 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1960 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1962 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1964 23% 34% 56% 66% 76%
1966 - 1976 22% 32% 53% 62% 70%
1980 18% 24% 54% 59% 70%
1982 16% 22% 49% 50% 50%
1984 14% 18% 42% 45% 50%
1986 14% 18% 38% 45% 50%
1988 15% 15% 28% 28% 28%
1990 15% 15% 28% 28% 28%
1992 15% 15% 28% 28% 31%
1994 15% 15% 28% 31% 39.6%
1996 15% 15% 28% 31% 36%
1998 15% 15% 28% 28% 36%
2000 15% 15% 28% 28% 36%
2002 10% 15% 27% 27% 35%
2004 10% 15% 25% 25% 33%
2006 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%
2008 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%
2010 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%

 

[DontBeStupid]

They are indeed necessary to fund the government...even the Founders knew it.

But they warned about the degree, and the balance. Right now? The balance is in favour of Government by a long shot...too large to the point it is choking off the citizen.

Really? Our tax burden is the lowest its been in generations. No one argues against that.

Unless YOU have a link? I will file this post under yaksqueeze.

Really?

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Federal Income Taxes on Middle-Income Families at Historically Low Levels — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Chart of the day: America’s small tax revenues | Felix Salmon

Low Federal Tax Rate Means Hundreds Of Billions Of Dollars Lost Annually, Bartlett Says

Tax surprise: Records show federal taxes at historically low point

Want me to keep going?

Honestly. Do you not read anything?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

Pretty much anytime an entrepreneur starts his own business.

Or when someone borrows 100,000 just to get the education they need for a job? Isn't the job thus the return on the investment? Shouldn't that job be taxed as low a capital gain made from any other 100,000 investment?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

Pretty much anytime an entrepreneur starts his own business.

Indeed...thus the axiom: Takes money to make money...and to further? Takes alot of risk...Hell? This Republic was built on one huge risk.

This country was built on the access to millions of acres of free land, often given away by the government.

 

[Big Fitz]

And whose taxes do you want to raise to replace the revenue you lose from that?

Your own?

Cut out unconstitutional spending and you don't need that money.

Problem solved.

Simple concept...but when is the left ever concerned with Article 1, Section 8?

Only when it benefits their efforts toward ENDING Article 1 Section 8. Alinsky plotted it out. "Force them to live 100% by their rules". So I paraphrased it. Essentially it's another huckster truism:

"Never give a sucker an even break."

 

[Big Fitz]

Cut out unconstitutional spending and you don't need that money.

Problem solved.

Simple concept...but when is the left ever concerned with Article 1, Section 8?

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Whose interpretation? Yours? Or an educated person's?

How about the founding father's interpretation instead of some 'educated' ivory tower socialist snob who's attitude towards the constitution is one of derision and disrespect?

 

[Big Fitz]

since i am actually a trader, and most in this thread probably aren't, does that mean my opinion means more?

Absolutely not. I'm glad to hear your input. Wish I could do your line of work, but I'm not skilled or funded in a way I can at this time of my life.

bummer. there are some topics here where certain people's opinion means more (since they worked in that field).

You can thank the global warming scientists for burning those bridges. So many educated shills poisoning expert opinion.

 

[Big Fitz]

And whose taxes do you want to raise to replace the revenue you lose from that?

Your own?

I pay more than enough already thank you. Let's get you and the forty-seven per centers to start coughing up some cash.. coupled with eliminating about 25% of the federal budget.

We'll be fine.

The Right's total argument against taxes, right there in a nut shell.

So how much extra of your income do you voluntarily pay? Do you 'pay enough'? Every tax day do you say "I didn't pay enough. I still have too much money left over. I should pay more because it's my patriotic duty to support deadbeats and the indigent.' I'm sure you call them the more lofty terms of 'unwed mothers' and 'the unemployed'.

So how high and mighty are you? Letting your virtue lead the way?

 

[Big Fitz]

Absolutely not. I'm glad to hear your input. Wish I could do your line of work, but I'm not skilled or funded in a way I can at this time of my life.

bummer. there are some topics here where certain people's opinion means more (since they worked in that field).

You're on the wrong board for that. It's actually the opposite here. For example, the handful of us who actually have degrees in Economics are openly insulted and ridiculed.

Here, you'll get more for your opinion if you DON'T know the subject.

You argue for failed keynsian economic policy and taxing the engines of job creation and you claim a degree in economics???

Little economic tip for you, get your money back. You've been cheated.

 

[Big Fitz]

Uh Stupid, we believe the capital gains tax should exist but not at the same level as income tax.

It's been proven if you raise the Capital Gains tax too high, then investment goes down and the economy gets worse.

You won't be able to convince any "conservatives" here of needed changes to the tax code. "Conservatives" incorrectly believe that taxes on capital gains are double taxation, that that money was earned first and they refuse to acknowledge capital loss.

They simply don't understand what's going on.

Capital is mobile and can leave the country. There is no way to stop this without impinging on profit in this nation. That said, you should tax it like income. Then again, you must keep in mind that you are competing with foreign economies and that limits how high you can raise what you tax on the upper end as well as how low you can bring it to keep SOME money coming in. The laffer curve still works.

 

[initforme]

Dont worry the middle class will pick up the tab. They ALWAYS do. You know, the ones that make the millionaires their money.

 

[Big Fitz]

Dont worry the middle class will pick up the tab. They ALWAYS do. You know, the ones that make the millionaires their money.

Profit does not always mean someone else got robbed.

 

[merrill]

Tons of wealthy pay no taxes yet they never stop whining.....

Hearts will never bleed for them so I say they should ante up...

 

[Jarhead]

Dont worry the middle class will pick up the tab. They ALWAYS do. You know, the ones that make the millionaires their money.

If this statement were true then I must wonder why the middle class doesnt simply make the money for itself.

You guys just dont get it. Pathetically jealous.

 

[Big Fitz]

Tons of wealthy pay no taxes yet they never stop whining.....

Hearts will never bleed for them so I say they should ante up...

Simple solution. Flat tax with no loopholes. Don't forget, liberals made LOTS of loopholes for their friends, just like Republicans did. Abuse of the tax code for politics is a bi-partisan effort. Hence the need to end it all regardless of wealth or its source.

 

[Jarhead]

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

Pretty much anytime an entrepreneur starts his own business.

Or when someone borrows 100,000 just to get the education they need for a job? Isn't the job thus the return on the investment? Shouldn't that job be taxed as low a capital gain made from any other 100,000 investment?

your mistake is you see an education as an investment for a job.

It is not.

The true value of an education is it helps one develop a mind that has the capacity to continue learning.

In esseence, it teaches you to learn and apply.

I now understand why you see "academics" as the end all. They are not. Those that take their academic experience and apply their ability to learn in the real world are the ones that can acheive success.

 

[Big Fitz]

Tons of wealthy pay no taxes yet they never stop whining.....

Hearts will never bleed for them so I say they should ante up...

Or another solution would be to end 'second christmas' on April 15th for 47% of the populace who gets all their money back and more. Don't have to take more from them, just no more returning what you took. That'd lessen the tax burden AND increase revenues. What a concept!