TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
And you are getting that bovine excrement from where, exactly?
More Children Die From the COVID Shot Than From COVID
- Thread starter Lastamender
- Start date
Rigby5
Diamond Member
What part do you question?
There is no question fewer than 900 under the age of 18 have died after contracting covid, compared to over 900,000 over 18 who have died.
And clearly the mRNA injections can not work at all as a vaccine because all they do is cause our own cells to start growing spike proteins, and that can't be any sort of immunity. Spike proteins can't be remembered or triggered on. Our own exosomes use these same spike proteins in the same way, to access cell ACE2 receptors.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
You said that NO kids died and now you admit that is not true. Sure, 900 is a small percentage but that is little comfort to their families. In addition, there is no reason to believe that they could not determine the cause of death. If anything, it would be easier to determine why kids died because they are less likely to have any underlying risk factors or co-morbid issues
As far as the vaccine goes, your claim that the mRNA vaxx does not produce immunity is just plain wrong. That is exactly what it does and it is in fact effective in children.
Three exposures to SARS-CoV-2 spike protein can induce robust neutralizing antibodies against variants
In a new study, scientists revealed that three consecutive exposures SARS-CoV-2 spike protein through infection, vaccination, or both can induce strong neutralizing antibodies against a wide variety of viral variants, including omicron.
www.news-medical.net
Rigby5
Diamond Member
You said that NO kids died and now you admit that is not true. Sure, 900 is a small percentage but that is little comfort to their families. In addition, there is no reason to believe that they could not determine the cause of death. If anything, it would be easier to determine why kids died because they are less likely to have any underlying risk factors or co-morbid issues
As far as the vaccine goes, your claim that the mRNA vaxx does not produce immunity is just plain wrong. That is exactly what it does and it is in fact effective in children.
Three exposures to SARS-CoV-2 spike protein can induce robust neutralizing antibodies against variants
In a new study, scientists revealed that three consecutive exposures SARS-CoV-2 spike protein through infection, vaccination, or both can induce strong neutralizing antibodies against a wide variety of viral variants, including omicron.
Wrong.
I said that essentially no kid has died from covid.
The 900 that died is such a small number that still essentially no kid died, and even those 900 who did die were not killed by covid.
They were killed by the hospitals failing to treat them properly to prevent suffocation from the lungs filling with fluid from an immune system over reaction.
And anyone claiming the mRNA could possibly produce any immune system memory, is lying.
The mRNA can't work like a vaccine at all because all it does is start our own cells to grow spike proteins, and spike proteins, are not a pathogen, can not be remembered, and can not be attacked because our own exosomes have to use the exact same spike proteins.
"Robust neutralizing antibodies" is NOT long term immunity in T-cell memory.
That is just a temporary treatment.
Antibodies can not live more than 6 months.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
You're just repeating the same crap as before . No one said that the vax provides long term immunity , but it does work
Rigby5
Diamond Member
If it does not provide any T-cell, long term immunity, then it is not a vaccine and does not work.
Since it only stimulates a short period of antibodies, it is no better than monoclonal antibody injections.
And by not granting immunity, and just temporarily reducing symptoms, these mRNA injections are preventing herd immunity, thus ensuring the epidemic can never end.
It takes real immunity before the epidemic can end.
And since the mRNA can't do that, recovery immunity then is the only way.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
Interesting how you keep posting that without any documentation. I haveto wonder where you get your information. The fact is that you are mistaken:
T-Cells & COVID-19: Penn Study Shows Robust T-Cell Response to Vaccine
Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.
www.pennmedicine.org
As far as herd immunity goes, to achieve natural herd immunity with out a vaccine, many more people would need to be infected and that means that many more would be dead. And even natural immunity is not forever, so people would have to be reinfected periodically to maintain immunity
Rigby5
Diamond Member
Interesting how you keep posting that without any documentation. I haveto wonder where you get your information. The fact is that you are mistaken:
T-Cells & COVID-19: Penn Study Shows Robust T-Cell Response to Vaccine
Messenger-RNA (mRNA) vaccines against the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 provoke a swift and strong response by the immune system’s T cells—the heavy armor of the immune system—according to a study from researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.www.pennmedicine.org
As far as herd immunity goes, to achieve natural herd immunity with out a vaccine, many more people would need to be infected and that means that many more would be dead. And even natural immunity is not forever, so people would have to be reinfected periodically to maintain immunity
Well it was an excellent article, written by a person who knows more than I do.
There are 3 reasons I am skeptical, however.
One is that as much as this claimed T-cell memory after the 2nd shot, real world evidence is indicating that it is not working to last, even after the 3rd shot.
Second is that I do not understand how getting our cells to grow spike proteins can created any T-cell memory, because our own exosomes have to use the same spike proteins in order to get into our cells? Spike proteins simply can NOT get a label as being bad. They have to work in the same ACE2 receptor lock,
Third is that T-cell memory is very hard to study. They may have goofed and done something like pick people who already had recovery immunity and did not know it?
As far as herd immunity, yes many more would have to be infected and recover, but if only those likely to survive would volunteer, then it could be ended so quickly that the death toll would be much less than 5% what it is now already.
Right now we are trying to minimize infection, but then making it last much longer, and that killed over 20 times more people already, and may keep killing forever.
And no, natural recovery immunity is estimated to be more than 30 year duration. Very few immune responses are not life long.
I should also add that no one has ever really been successful in making any vaccine with mRNA technology, and most epidemiologists do not believe it is even possible at all.
However we do not really know that much about how the immune system works.
Since T-cells do not live 30 years like immunity does, then somehow immunity information has to become appended to the T-cell DNA so that it replicates along with the cell. We have no idea how that works.
Last edited:
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
Well I can't really argue any of that. You seem to be more fluid in the technical language than I am. I would still like to see your source. I might then have more confidence in what your saying
Meanwhile I will go with what I know. While I can't explain how it works, it is clear that those who are vaccinated are far less likely to end up with serious illness or dead. As for immunity, there is a lot of conflicting information about how long it last from exposure vs. the vaccine, and they are still learning about it
Regarding herd immunity through exposure, you are actually suggesting we deliberately expose people to Covid? That raises serious ethical questions to say the least. Even healthy people could die, and there is the issue of long term Covid that can affect people, even those who only had a mild case of it. And I just do not buy the notion that the vaxx will prolong the pandemic. That sould like propaganda to me. Get vaxxed!
Rigby5
Diamond Member
YES! Deliberate exposure ends it the quickest, so kills the smallest number of people possible.
And since those under 40 are 400 times less likely to die, that is not a high risk.
That is how most epidemics are ended, since vaccines have only existed for 200 years are take too long.
Like Washington to the Continental Army in 1777.
How Crude Smallpox Inoculations Helped George Washington Win the War | HISTORY
As commander of the Continental Army, Washington faced dual enemies: the British and smallpox. So he made a risky call.
Washington also knew that his American-born soldiers were far more susceptible to the disease than the European enemy. That’s because smallpox was endemic in England, meaning that a high percentage of British troops had already contracted the disease as children and now carried lifelong immunity.
In contrast, relatively few New Englanders and Southerners had ever been exposed to the virus. For example, only 23 percent of North Carolina soldiers who enlisted in 1777 had ever had smallpox.
Armed only with a primitive understanding of contagion and immunity, Washington had to decide between several anti-smallpox schemes, each with its own significant risks.
“It comes down to herd immunity,” says Fenn. “You either have to let people be exposed to the disease and naturally acquire immunity, which could be devastating for his troops and have devastating consequences for the war. Or somehow quarantine your troops, which means they’re not going to be able to fight. Or immunize them.”
...
The best inoculation technique at Washington’s disposal during the Revolutionary War was a nasty and sometimes fatal method called “variolation.”
“An inoculation doctor would cut an incision in the flesh of the person being inoculated and implant a thread laced with live pustular matter into the wound,” explains Fenn. “The hope and intent was for the person to come down with smallpox. When smallpox was conveyed in that fashion, it was usually a milder case than it was when it was contracted in the natural way.”
Variolization still had a case fatality rate of 5 to 10 percent. And even if all went well, inoculated patients still needed a month to recover. The procedure was not only risky for the individual patient, but for the surrounding population. An inoculee with a mild case might feel well enough to walk around town, infecting countless others with potentially more serious infections.
...
“The small pox has made such Head in every Quarter that I find it impossible to keep it from spreading thro’ the whole Army in the natural way. I have therefore determined, not only to innoculate all the Troops now here, that have not had it, but shall order Docr. Shippen to innoculate the Recruits as fast as they come in to Philadelphia.”
Fenn says that inoculating all troops without natural smallpox immunity was a daunting task. First, medical personnel had to examine each individual to determine if they had contracted the disease in the past, then they conducted the risky variolation procedure, followed by a month-long recovery process attended by teams of nurses.
Meanwhile, this entire process—the first of its kind and scale—had to be conducted in total secrecy. If the British caught wind that large numbers of American soldiers were laid up in bed with smallpox, it could be the end.
...}
Colin norris
Platinum Member
- Apr 25, 2021
- 10,427
- 4,110
- 928
- Banned
- #71
Why would some whacky republicans run with it as if it is gospel?
Mercola - Bias and Credibility
CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence.mediabiasfactcheck.com
Why would a whacky conspiracy site post that, I wonder?
They love cherry picking articles to score points even if stupidity is a result.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
Just because something is posted at a site that has a bad history, that does not discredit what is posted.
It just gains nothing from the site.
But it does not lose any credibility either.
And clearly everyone has always said that children essentially are NOT at all at any significant risk from covid.
Many places like Japan, Korea, Sweden, etc., never closed their schools at all.
Yet the mRNA vaccines do have a much higher risk than any other vaccine ever given before.
And the mRNA vaccines seem to have such a short efficacy span, that they then are not worth it for children.
Colin norris
Platinum Member
- Apr 25, 2021
- 10,427
- 4,110
- 928
- Banned
- #73
None of that matters. You You live in America and you are governed by it. Move overseas if you like.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
The point is that these other countries are much less political and more based on logic, reason, and science.
They are good examples to look at as to what is right, logical, and accurate.
And in the US, we are NOT supposed to be governed by anyone else.
The people are supposed to BE the government, or at least control it.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
Sorry. Not convinced. It seems reckless and dangerous. The US population with widely varied demographics and health issues is not Washingtons Army of strong young men. Discouraging the vaccine is irresponsible and dangerousYES! Deliberate exposure ends it the quickest, so kills the smallest number of people possible.
And since those under 40 are 400 times less likely to die, that is not a high risk.
That is how most epidemics are ended, since vaccines have only existed for 200 years are take too long.
Like Washington to the Continental Army in 1777.
{...How Crude Smallpox Inoculations Helped George Washington Win the War | HISTORY
As commander of the Continental Army, Washington faced dual enemies: the British and smallpox. So he made a risky call.www.history.com
Washington also knew that his American-born soldiers were far more susceptible to the disease than the European enemy. That’s because smallpox was endemic in England, meaning that a high percentage of British troops had already contracted the disease as children and now carried lifelong immunity.
In contrast, relatively few New Englanders and Southerners had ever been exposed to the virus. For example, only 23 percent of North Carolina soldiers who enlisted in 1777 had ever had smallpox.
Armed only with a primitive understanding of contagion and immunity, Washington had to decide between several anti-smallpox schemes, each with its own significant risks.
“It comes down to herd immunity,” says Fenn. “You either have to let people be exposed to the disease and naturally acquire immunity, which could be devastating for his troops and have devastating consequences for the war. Or somehow quarantine your troops, which means they’re not going to be able to fight. Or immunize them.”
...
The best inoculation technique at Washington’s disposal during the Revolutionary War was a nasty and sometimes fatal method called “variolation.”
“An inoculation doctor would cut an incision in the flesh of the person being inoculated and implant a thread laced with live pustular matter into the wound,” explains Fenn. “The hope and intent was for the person to come down with smallpox. When smallpox was conveyed in that fashion, it was usually a milder case than it was when it was contracted in the natural way.”
Variolization still had a case fatality rate of 5 to 10 percent. And even if all went well, inoculated patients still needed a month to recover. The procedure was not only risky for the individual patient, but for the surrounding population. An inoculee with a mild case might feel well enough to walk around town, infecting countless others with potentially more serious infections.
...
“The small pox has made such Head in every Quarter that I find it impossible to keep it from spreading thro’ the whole Army in the natural way. I have therefore determined, not only to innoculate all the Troops now here, that have not had it, but shall order Docr. Shippen to innoculate the Recruits as fast as they come in to Philadelphia.”
Fenn says that inoculating all troops without natural smallpox immunity was a daunting task. First, medical personnel had to examine each individual to determine if they had contracted the disease in the past, then they conducted the risky variolation procedure, followed by a month-long recovery process attended by teams of nurses.
Meanwhile, this entire process—the first of its kind and scale—had to be conducted in total secrecy. If the British caught wind that large numbers of American soldiers were laid up in bed with smallpox, it could be the end.
...}
Debunking the Myth of Non-Vaccine Herd Immunity in COVID-19 | Coronavirus
coronavirus.utah.gov
ome have proposed removing restrictions and letting the disease run its course. What would that look like?
Deliberately infecting people would be worse, and unethical since we have other means of fighting the disease
Rigby5
Diamond Member
Sorry. Not convinced. It seems reckless and dangerous. The US population with widely varied demographics and health issues is not Washingtons Army of strong young men. Discouraging the vaccine is irresponsible and dangerous
Debunking the Myth of Non-Vaccine Herd Immunity in COVID-19 | Coronavirus
ome have proposed removing restrictions and letting the disease run its course. What would that look like?
Deliberately infecting people would be worse, and unethical since we have other means of fighting the disease
WRONG!
No one was suggesting we just let the virus run its course.
Just like with Washington, you only deliberately infect young, healthy volunteers, and you know when to isolate them from the vulnerable.
You need 70% for herd immunity, out of 300 million, so that is about 210 million who need to be deliberately infected, (minus the number who already had recovery immunity), so lets say 200 million.
The original lethality estimates were about 1%, but that was because most infected people did not know it and were not counted.
Since treatment is better now, and we know the majority are asymptomatic, we now know the lethality is more like 0.1%.
That would still be 200,000 dead. But that is still too high if we remember that those under 40 are 400 times less likely to die.
So as long as we keep volunteers under 40, not overweight, and not vaping, we can divide by 400.
That leaves a death toll from deliberate infection, of only 500 people.
And we could have done that in the first month.
Since our "other means" of fighting covid have failed and allowed it to go on for years, with over 900,000 deaths, then deliberately clearly killing only 500 people the first month, would have been vastly more ethical.
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
Stop right there . How do you do that ? Especially when you have so many "patriots" whining against lock downs. You are not suggesting that we let it run its course. You are suggesting that we speed it up. We infect the young and healthy( but at what cost?- you are ignoring the effects of long covid) but how do others achieve immunity ?
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
Seriously? Are there 200M people who are young, healthy and free of underlying risk factors to experiment on?? And you are still ignoring the devastating effects of long Covid which can effect up to 20% of those who "recover" from even a mild case.
Last edited:
TheProgressivePatriot
Platinum Member
None of this is making a lick of sense to me. Our efforts have not failed entirely buy have been thwarted to a great extent by vaccine misinformation and lies resulting in a large segment of the population being left vulnerable.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
When you deliberately infect, then you know who to temporarily isolate, so then it will not spread.
Others do NOT need immunity.
The whole point of "herd immunity" is that once 70% are immune, the epidemic dies out from the odds of finding a new host every 12 days to be too low to be viable.
And there is no such thing as "long covid".
What happens to some people is that the over reaction to the virus harms the lungs, and that sends blood clots through out the body.
But the length of time it takes for those blood clots to be processed is not relevant.
The immune system will take care of them eventually.
Covid can not survive in the blood and therefore can not effect any organ in the body except the lungs.
Similar threads
New Topics
-
Krugman Puts His Finger On Why Trump Is Killing Renewable Energy- Started by skews13
- Replies: 0
-
-
When philosophers tried to do science. Hilarity ensued.
- Started by GuyOnInternet
- Replies: 2
-
