MN man, guilty or not guilty

[Againsheila]

the jury came to the right conclusion

guilty life without parole

Byron Smith gets life sentence for murdering two Little Falls teens | Star Tribune

They may have come to the only conclusion they could, given the evidence they were presented, but I'm still not convinced it was "justice."

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

 

[BDBoop]

They may have come to the only conclusion they could, given the evidence they were presented, but I'm still not convinced it was "justice."

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

It's a valid question.

 

[BDBoop]

I have been reading these stories since it happened and the media is going overboard to paint this guy as a whacko and these two as a young couple who just made a little mistake that all young people do. Really? All young people break into homes and rob people?

No, most people do not break into homes and steal. People who do are criminals. To me that is not a "little mistake".

The media painted this guy as a "whacko" because he is a psychotic killer. Normal people do not commit stone-cold execution style slayings and make tapes of the kill shot as a souvenir.

Okay, so how do you factor in his life as a law-abiding citizen?

 

[Pop23]

I have been reading these stories since it happened and the media is going overboard to paint this guy as a whacko and these two as a young couple who just made a little mistake that all young people do. Really? All young people break into homes and rob people?

No, most people do not break into homes and steal. People who do are criminals. To me that is not a "little mistake".

The media painted this guy as a "whacko" because he is a psychotic killer. Normal people do not commit stone-cold execution style slayings and make tapes of the kill shot as a souvenir.

Okay, so how do you factor in his life as a law-abiding citizen?

I've said it before, fear makes people do odd things, but the truth is still the truth.....

None of this happens if the two had not violated the sanctuary of another. There are some simple truths that many ignore, this is one.

When law enforcement fails it's duties the courts should have been sentencing the Chief, not a scared old man

No winners here, just losers

The biggest loser will be the next person, killed in bed by a whacked out, empowered teen, thinking they get a get out of jail free card.

Pitiful

 

[jon_berzerk]

They may have come to the only conclusion they could, given the evidence they were presented, but I'm still not convinced it was "justice."

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

 

[Pop23]

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

John, with all due respect, and coming from someone who had a shotgun pressed to my head while trying to open a safe ( try that sometime ), you do strange things when you live in fear.

If someone would have broken into my home within a few years after that, God help em.

No wonder I never get jury duty

 

[Againsheila]

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

 

[Cowman]

I don't know how someone can listen to that tape and think he wasn't getting a kick out of it, not someone who feared for his life, and not someone who simply had enough courage to defend himself. This man was oozing enthusiasm from the sounds of the audio clip.

Like I said, I wouldn't doubt it for a second if that man was trying to lure people into breaking into his house.

Well, I didn't listen to the tape. My hearing isn't all that good anyway. To me, it doesn't matter what he did, they still broke into HIS home. He didn't go looking for them, they came to him. You don't find it interesting that the judge refused to allow the kids records in the trial? This was not their first time. It may not have even been their first time breaking into HIS has. They knew there was a camera and they still broke into his house. These kids weren't afraid of anything. I think the parents who are crying about their "potential" are self delusional. The kids only potential that I can see was to be life long criminals.

I'm still thinking temporary insanity. I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. It probably would have been a hung jury as I can't get past the fact that they broke into HIS home. IMO, when you break into someone's home, you've given up any rights you have as you are set on taking away someone else's rights.

You're doing yourself a disservice then if you don't listen to the tape, despite others, like me, telling you that it is pretty horrific.

In a distraught victim to Hannibal Lecter scale... this guy was edging closely to Hannibal Lecter in his level of creepiness.

I think that counts for something. I think it gives insight into his character, and that should matter to you.

DETAILS MATTER PEOPLE. You can let a lot of tragic shit slide if you don't care about the details.

 

[Pop23]

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

Absolutely correct. I'm arguing with you on one thread and on your side on this one. How strange is that


Here's the problem. Most criminals are actually very stupid, you have to make rules very simple so it's easy for them to understand. This is easy, break in and you may die and the home owner will walk away.

Crime falls dramatically.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't know how someone can listen to that tape and think he wasn't getting a kick out of it, not someone who feared for his life, and not someone who simply had enough courage to defend himself. This man was oozing enthusiasm from the sounds of the audio clip.

Like I said, I wouldn't doubt it for a second if that man was trying to lure people into breaking into his house.

Well, I didn't listen to the tape. My hearing isn't all that good anyway. To me, it doesn't matter what he did, they still broke into HIS home. He didn't go looking for them, they came to him. You don't find it interesting that the judge refused to allow the kids records in the trial? This was not their first time. It may not have even been their first time breaking into HIS has. They knew there was a camera and they still broke into his house. These kids weren't afraid of anything. I think the parents who are crying about their "potential" are self delusional. The kids only potential that I can see was to be life long criminals.

I'm still thinking temporary insanity. I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. It probably would have been a hung jury as I can't get past the fact that they broke into HIS home. IMO, when you break into someone's home, you've given up any rights you have as you are set on taking away someone else's rights.

You're doing yourself a disservice then if you don't listen to the tape, despite others, like me, telling you that it is pretty horrific.

In a distraught victim to Hannibal Lecter scale... this guy was edging closely to Hannibal Lecter in his level of creepiness.

I think that counts for something. I think it gives insight into his character, and that should matter to you.

DETAILS MATTER PEOPLE. You can let a lot of tragic shit slide if you don't care about the details.

It would matter to me if I were on the jury. I'm not so I don't have to listen to it. All I have is my opinion such as it is. It may be right, it may be wrong, but it's my opinion and unless I'm on the jury I don't see the need to put myself through that. I went through almost the entire Zimmerman trial and it was tough. I'm not putting that much energy into something again for a long time, unless I have to.

 

[Cowman]

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

What if the final culmination of them breaking into your home, after all your prepping, was to do something like add them to your trophy collection?

So much in nature revolves around luring prey to kill them. Humans are often no different.

At what point are you a victim, and at what point are you a predator?

Is the manmade construct of a home an ultimate defense, no matter if you're a predator? The home of many predators is also their hunting ground.


This man sounded like he was hunting.

 

[Againsheila]

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

Absolutely correct. I'm arguing with you on one thread and on your side on this one. How strange is that


Here's the problem. Most criminals are actually very stupid, you have to make rules very simple so it's easy for them to understand. This is easy, break in and you may die and the home owner will walk away.

Crime falls dramatically.

Well, you can't be right all the time.

 

[Againsheila]

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

What if the final culmination of them breaking into your home, after all your prepping, was to do something like add them to your trophy collection?

So much in nature revolves around luring prey to kill them. Humans can be no different.

At what point are you a victim, and at what point are you a predator?

Doesn't matter, still can't erase the fact that they broke into his home. Your home is your castle and you have the right to protect it. This man's home had been broken into several times before. These kids also broke in and they paid the price. Too bad he's also going to end up paying the price.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

exactly i am a believer in keep your hands off of other peoples property

however the use of deadly force is always ALWAYS premised on necessity

preparing a killing zone then waiting ever so patiently until the prey enters that zone

then after taking one out dragging the body out of view

then waiting an additional 10 minutes instead of calling the cops

for the other to arrive then pump a bunch of rounds into the next one

and then walking up to that one for an executions style shot

to me does not sound like necessity

 

[Againsheila]

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

exactly i am a believer in keep your hands off of other peoples property

however the use of deadly force is always ALWAYS premised on necessity

preparing a killing zone then waiting ever so patiently until the prey enters that zone

then after taking one out dragging the body out of view

then waiting an additional 10 minutes instead of calling the cops

for the other to arrive then pump a bunch of rounds into the next one

and then walking up to that one for an executions style shot

to me does not sound like necessity

Doesn't sound to me like a necessity either. However, I'm still left with the fact that they broke into his home. They would not be dead if they'd stayed away, and he'd probably not be in jail. As I understand it, if this had happened in California and he'd killed the girl but not the boy, they'd both be on trial for the murder. Why? Because if there is a death during a crime the people who perpetrate the crime are guilty of murder. They may have even put the boy on trial instead of the man.

 

[jon_berzerk]

You can't escape the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the kids didn't break into his home. I could be sitting in my basement with all my prepping supplies and my guns and drinking my beer and if someone breaks into my home, why am I not justified in shooting their ass?

The kill shots bother me, but I keep coming back to the fact that they broke into his home and this wasn't the first time. If they weren't doing the crime, they wouldn't be dead.

exactly i am a believer in keep your hands off of other peoples property

however the use of deadly force is always ALWAYS premised on necessity

preparing a killing zone then waiting ever so patiently until the prey enters that zone

then after taking one out dragging the body out of view

then waiting an additional 10 minutes instead of calling the cops

for the other to arrive then pump a bunch of rounds into the next one

and then walking up to that one for an executions style shot

to me does not sound like necessity

Doesn't sound to me like a necessity either. However, I'm still left with the fact that they broke into his home. They would not be dead if they'd stayed away, and he'd probably not be in jail. As I understand it, if this had happened in California and he'd killed the girl but not the boy, they'd both be on trial for the murder. Why? Because if there is a death during a crime the people who perpetrate the crime are guilty of murder. They may have even put the boy on trial instead of the man.

im sure he got tired of repeated break ins

actually i would not have had too much of a problem with it

had he shot them both at the same time

and did not conduct execution style shots

and called the police in a timely fashion

 

[jon_berzerk]

compressed for time

warning graphic

warning graphic

graphic audio

WARNING GRAPHIC: Audio of Byron Smith Executing Teen Intruders

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvweUXvVmU#t=36[/ame]

 

[BDBoop]

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

John, with all due respect, and coming from someone who had a shotgun pressed to my head while trying to open a safe ( try that sometime ), you do strange things when you live in fear.

If someone would have broken into my home within a few years after that, God help em.

No wonder I never get jury duty

One of the companies we manage claims for - they have to call in when they're robbed. Every employee in the place has to file a work comp.

I'll never forget the young woman who sobbed her way through the call - third robbery in as many weeks. She has three kids to support, and this job is the best job she can find. She just figures she'll lose her mind if she goes through this again. I asked if she thought she was going to lose any time because of this incident, and I wound up talking to her supervisor because she just couldn't deal anymore.

 

[Cowman]

Well, I didn't listen to the tape. My hearing isn't all that good anyway. To me, it doesn't matter what he did, they still broke into HIS home. He didn't go looking for them, they came to him. You don't find it interesting that the judge refused to allow the kids records in the trial? This was not their first time. It may not have even been their first time breaking into HIS has. They knew there was a camera and they still broke into his house. These kids weren't afraid of anything. I think the parents who are crying about their "potential" are self delusional. The kids only potential that I can see was to be life long criminals.

I'm still thinking temporary insanity. I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. It probably would have been a hung jury as I can't get past the fact that they broke into HIS home. IMO, when you break into someone's home, you've given up any rights you have as you are set on taking away someone else's rights.

You're doing yourself a disservice then if you don't listen to the tape, despite others, like me, telling you that it is pretty horrific.

In a distraught victim to Hannibal Lecter scale... this guy was edging closely to Hannibal Lecter in his level of creepiness.

I think that counts for something. I think it gives insight into his character, and that should matter to you.

DETAILS MATTER PEOPLE. You can let a lot of tragic shit slide if you don't care about the details.

It would matter to me if I were on the jury. I'm not so I don't have to listen to it. All I have is my opinion such as it is. It may be right, it may be wrong, but it's my opinion and unless I'm on the jury I don't see the need to put myself through that. I went through almost the entire Zimmerman trial and it was tough. I'm not putting that much energy into something again for a long time, unless I have to.

I guess I just like to have all the facts in front of me before I really commit to an opinion.

And trust me, that audio and his behavior, the way he executed those teens regardless of whether they were criminals or not, is certainly a fact I take into consideration.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If your house has been broken into several times and the cops do nothing, what do you do about it?

i certainly would not lay and wait

i certainly would not shoot them first with a rifle

then finish them off execution style

several minutes apart

i would not have a tarps layed out to catch the mess

If any of this sounds like reasonable self-defense

then there is nothing i could post to change your mind

to me

it sounds like

deliberate and premeditated murder

John, with all due respect, and coming from someone who had a shotgun pressed to my head while trying to open a safe ( try that sometime ), you do strange things when you live in fear.

If someone would have broken into my home within a few years after that, God help em.

No wonder I never get jury duty

John, with all due respect, and coming from someone who had a shotgun pressed to my head

sorry to hear that

i did actually have a bad guy point s sawed off shotgun at me once

my testimony helped get him convicted

however this is not what happened in this case