MN man, guilty or not guilty

[Againsheila]

Interesting, to me, is that cell phone jammers are illegal to sell or possess with the only exception being federal law enforcement. His having one is a huge step towards premeditation and clear thinking.

Did you hear about the recordings. Talking to his dead brother is a dead giveaway that he's not all there. I'm curious about the jammer. Where did it come from? Did he put it there, or did the kids with the intention of driving him crazy? Or did the government for some reason? Why didn't they enter it into evidence??? Why bring it up if you don't enter it into evidence? Something's fishy there.

 

[R.D.]

Interesting, to me, is that cell phone jammers are illegal to sell or possess with the only exception being federal law enforcement. His having one is a huge step towards premeditation and clear thinking.

Did you hear about the recordings. Talking to his dead brother is a dead giveaway that he's not all there. I'm curious about the jammer. Where did it come from? Did he put it there, or did the kids with the intention of driving him crazy? Or did the government for some reason? Why didn't they enter it into evidence??? Why bring it up if you don't enter it into evidence? Something's fishy there.

I did hear them, Bruce isn't dead, am I missing something? Smith's brother, Bruce, walked past reporters afterward without comment..

The jammer was introduced into the trial, by the prosecution with photos and an agent. He was clearly talking on the hone, so the jammer was in case the kids had cell hones. I'm not sure the tape is fluid either, it's his attempt to sway people.

 

[emilynghiem]

If this case could be compared to what Officers would be excused for,
or allowed or not allowed to do, it would likely fall under excessive use of force.
It is justified to defend oneself and one's house,
but some of this went over the line and was emotionally charged retaliation without due process.

An Officer would likely get reprimanded for that.

If he wants consideration of his mitigating circumstances
the same could be said of the two teenagers.

I would consider some other charges, like assault with a deadly weapon,
or attempted assault? I'm not sure what would apply and be fair.

As with Zimmerman and Martin, I would hold both sides accountable for
getting into a violent situation. The teenagers already got the death penalty
for their part in the break in and unwarranted confrontation that put the
homeowner on defense. (And if the parents are held indirectly responsible for not supervising
their kids to prevent this, they have forever lost their children as the consequence.)

His excess violence or aggression towards them deserves to be considered separately,
but I would consider the mitigating circumstances and try to work out
something that is fair to both sides I see equally responsible for the deaths.

My sympathies to all people and their families and the community affected by this case.
This is truly sad, and I see it as a sign of failure on our society where, like these teens,
we have such great potential yet if we do not use our resources wisely, we all lose.

We don't need any more Trayvon Martin's and George Zimmerman's to go through this.

So I hope to see greater promotion of civilian training, assistance and AGREEMENT to abide by laws and police procedures of law enforcement to reduce such preventable tragedies.

 

[Againsheila]

Interesting, to me, is that cell phone jammers are illegal to sell or possess with the only exception being federal law enforcement. His having one is a huge step towards premeditation and clear thinking.

Did you hear about the recordings. Talking to his dead brother is a dead giveaway that he's not all there. I'm curious about the jammer. Where did it come from? Did he put it there, or did the kids with the intention of driving him crazy? Or did the government for some reason? Why didn't they enter it into evidence??? Why bring it up if you don't enter it into evidence? Something's fishy there.

I did hear them, Bruce isn't dead, am I missing something? Smith's brother, Bruce, walked past reporters afterward without comment..

The jammer was introduced into the trial, by the prosecution with photos and an agent. He was clearly talking on the hone, so the jammer was in case the kids had cell hones. I'm not sure the tape is fluid either, it's his attempt to sway people.

Okay, so why did I read that he was dead? Maybe today isn't the day to stop drinking coffee?

 

[emilynghiem]

On point 2 more and more states are enacting shield laws to prevent perpetrators of crimes from suing their would be victims. In any event a family could sue you for a dead skell anyway, unless of course the laws are written to prevent that.

That's a good thing because I don't believe an intruder should get a dime for breaking the law. Nevertheless, it still may be best to put him out of everyone else's misery.

You don't have the right to make that decision. You are not judge, jury and executioner. If you take on that role, you will go to prison.

Very good point.

Yes, that's the problem, when people feel forced into this situation.

However, why wait until AFTER such crimes and botched reactions happen to start teaching people the laws, due process, and police procedures for apprehending?

Couldn't more lives be saved, and crimes prevented,
by teaching citizens in advance, such as upon turning legal at 18,
what the policies are, what the procedures and COSTS are if violations occur?

Why not train all citizens to uphold standard law and enforcement procedures (or sign citizenship contracts agreeing to be financially and legally responsible for costs of debts and damages incurred by premeditated criminal acts and abuses)? Wouldn't that promote greater respect and responsibility for law, and more aware and secure communities.

 

[oldfart]

I would consider some other charges, like assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted assault? I'm not sure what would apply and be fair.

My feelings are very similar to yours, but I can't see a plausible legal justification for any charge other than first degree murder with these facts. I wish there were another way to charge it.

When the killer squeezed off the kill shots, he was in absolutely no danger from anyone, so self-defense is not available. Insanity is a pretty hard sell in this case. So the main two affirmative defenses are gone.

Of course there are a lot of lesser included charges, like aggrevated assault, but are they appropriate for the execution slaying of a wounded target? I'd say no. But a jury looking at the case charged as murder one could decide the penalty should be scalable and vote a lesser crime. The danger is that most of the lesser charges can carry very light sentences. In my state, Florida, a judge has a range from probation to life with possibility of parole in twenty years as sentencing options for the most likely ones.

Probably the best hope for justice here is a civil claim of wrongful death. He might not do any jail time, but his pension and all assets would go the kid's families.

If I were on the jury I would vote for murder one, and if available, death eligibility. If one of the parents shot him on the courthouse steps, I would probably vote to acquit on the basis of temporary insanity.

Better a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over loosing a child than a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over a B & E.

 

[Againsheila]

I would consider some other charges, like assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted assault? I'm not sure what would apply and be fair.

My feelings are very similar to yours, but I can't see a plausible legal justification for any charge other than first degree murder with these facts. I wish there were another way to charge it.

When the killer squeezed off the kill shots, he was in absolutely no danger from anyone, so self-defense is not available. Insanity is a pretty hard sell in this case. So the main two affirmative defenses are gone.

Of course there are a lot of lesser included charges, like aggrevated assault, but are they appropriate for the execution slaying of a wounded target? I'd say no. But a jury looking at the case charged as murder one could decide the penalty should be scalable and vote a lesser crime. The danger is that most of the lesser charges can carry very light sentences. In my state, Florida, a judge has a range from probation to life with possibility of parole in twenty years as sentencing options for the most likely ones.

Probably the best hope for justice here is a civil claim of wrongful death. He might not do any jail time, but his pension and all assets would go the kid's families.

If I were on the jury I would vote for murder one, and if available, death eligibility. If one of the parents shot him on the courthouse steps, I would probably vote to acquit on the basis of temporary insanity.

Better a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over loosing a child than a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over a B & E.

Sorry, I can't buy that when the kid is a repeat offender. One time, sure, it was a mistake, but repeatedly? The guy had been burgled several times and the cops did NOTHING!!! I would probably fly off the handle too. I know a woman that was burgled many times and the cops would do nothing. She practically lost her mind. She definitely lost every material possession she ever cared about including her family heirlooms. From talking to her, yeah, I'd say she was suffering from PTSD.

I still say temporary insanity. I don't blame him in the least and it's not like he went looking for these kids to kill them, they came to him. He shot them IN his house and it wasn't the first time he'd been burgled. How would you react if someone repeatedly stole your stuff?

Oh, and the woman I was talking about? She didn't have insurance. She lived in a mobile home and she couldn't afford insurance working as a waitress in a pancake house. Now you know how hard she had to work for what little she had, for people to take what she'd saved up to get is not only criminal, it's unforgivable.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the jury came to the right conclusion

guilty life without parole

Byron Smith gets life sentence for murdering two Little Falls teens | Star Tribune

 

[Againsheila]

the jury came to the right conclusion

guilty life without parole

Byron Smith gets life sentence for murdering two Little Falls teens | Star Tribune

They may have come to the only conclusion they could, given the evidence they were presented, but I'm still not convinced it was "justice."

 

[Cowman]

Jesus Christ.

I just listened to the audio. Horrifying.

Dude sounds like he was itching for a double homicide via home invasion. Like he planned for it and enjoyed it while it was happening.

The way he basically approached everything calmly, sardonically. He knew he had full control of the situation, and executed them needlessly... and even took pleasure in it, especially given his monologue about them being trash and shit, and doing his civic duty.

I swear, it sounds like the sorts of scenarios I've heard from some conservatives, when they talk about what they'll do to someone who breaks into their home.

That dude was ******* PSYCHOTIC. That was a pre-planned execution. He envisioned it. He planned it. He SAVORED every moment of it. All he had to do, was wait for someone to break into his home, which I wouldn't be surprised if he made more enticing so his moment would come.

Jury saw as much too.

 

[BDBoop]

Jesus Christ.

I just listened to the audio. Horrifying.

Dude sounds like he was itching for a double homicide via home invasion. Like he planned for it and enjoyed it while it was happening.

The way he basically approached everything calmly, sardonically. He knew he had full control of the situation, and executed them needlessly... and even took pleasure in it, especially given his monologue about them being trash and shit.

I swear, it sounds like the sorts of scenarios I've heard from some conservatives, when they talk about what they'll do to someone who breaks into their home.

That dude was ******* PSYCHOTIC. That was a pre-planned execution. He envisioned it. He planned it. He SAVORED every moment of it.

Jury saw as much too.

Why would he not dispose of the tape?

I'm starting to feel like he was having trouble making ends meet, so thought he'd get four hots and a cot or whatever they say.

 

[Smilebong]

I'm kind of surprised he's even being tried. They were IN his HOUSE.

The jurors heard the dramatic audio recordings Tuesday involving the homeowner who said he feared for his life after several previous break-ins.

Byron Smith, 65, is charged with first-degree premeditated murder in the slayings of cousins Nick Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, on Thanksgiving Day 2012. The retired State Department security engineer told police that, after the repeated break-ins, he was so fearful that he installed recording devices in his house.

Glass breaking and footsteps could be heard on the recordings. According to Pam Louwagie, a reporter with the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the tapes captured the moments of the fatal shootings.

“The first couple of gunshots you hear are just two loud bangs, and then you hear Nick Brady groaning,” Louwagie said.

After another bang, Smith’s voice could be heard.

“You’re dead,” he said.

“And soon after that, you can hear a tarp rustling, and it sounds like he’s dragging Nick Brady across the carpet,” Louwagie said.

Minutes later, when Kifer went into the basement, perhaps looking for Brady, Smith apparently shot her too, then quickly said, “Oh, sorry about that.”

But, prosecutors said, he didn’t stop there, firing amid Kifer’s screams.

And how can it possibly be premedited?? He didn't know there would be another break-in; how could he? Wouldn't the prosecution have to prove that he knew they would be breaking in?

'You're Dead,' Minn. Man Said After Shooting Teen Intruder - ABC News

I have been reading these stories since it happened and the media is going overboard to paint this guy as a whacko and these two as a young couple who just made a little mistake that all young people do. Really? All young people break into homes and rob people?

 

[Cowman]

I don't know how someone can listen to that tape and think he wasn't getting a kick out of it, not someone who feared for his life, and not someone who simply had enough courage to defend himself. This man was oozing enthusiasm from the sounds of the audio clip.

Like I said, I wouldn't doubt it for a second if that man was trying to lure people into breaking into his house.

 

[oldfart]

I would consider some other charges, like assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted assault? I'm not sure what would apply and be fair.

My feelings are very similar to yours, but I can't see a plausible legal justification for any charge other than first degree murder with these facts. I wish there were another way to charge it.

When the killer squeezed off the kill shots, he was in absolutely no danger from anyone, so self-defense is not available. Insanity is a pretty hard sell in this case. So the main two affirmative defenses are gone.

Of course there are a lot of lesser included charges, like aggrevated assault, but are they appropriate for the execution slaying of a wounded target? I'd say no. But a jury looking at the case charged as murder one could decide the penalty should be scalable and vote a lesser crime. The danger is that most of the lesser charges can carry very light sentences. In my state, Florida, a judge has a range from probation to life with possibility of parole in twenty years as sentencing options for the most likely ones.

Probably the best hope for justice here is a civil claim of wrongful death. He might not do any jail time, but his pension and all assets would go the kid's families.

If I were on the jury I would vote for murder one, and if available, death eligibility. If one of the parents shot him on the courthouse steps, I would probably vote to acquit on the basis of temporary insanity.

Better a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over loosing a child than a society that lets you off for killing for being pissed over a B & E.

Sorry, I can't buy that when the kid is a repeat offender. One time, sure, it was a mistake, but repeatedly? The guy had been burgled several times and the cops did NOTHING!!! I would probably fly off the handle too. I know a woman that was burgled many times and the cops would do nothing. She practically lost her mind. She definitely lost every material possession she ever cared about including her family heirlooms. From talking to her, yeah, I'd say she was suffering from PTSD.

OK so you believe killing is appropriate for B & E. I do not. I refuse to value a human life as less than property, regardless of sentimental value. You do. We disagree.

I still say temporary insanity. I don't blame him in the least and it's not like he went looking for these kids to kill them, they came to him. He shot them IN his house and it wasn't the first time he'd been burgled. How would you react if someone repeatedly stole your stuff?

I'd be pissed but I wouldn't kill anybody over it, period. Would you?

Oh, and the woman I was talking about? She didn't have insurance. She lived in a mobile home and she couldn't afford insurance working as a waitress in a pancake house. Now you know how hard she had to work for what little she had, for people to take what she'd saved up to get is not only criminal, it's unforgivable.

I'm very sorry about what happened to that lady. Anyone who did that to her was despicable. I've known a lot of people like her. I've been known to try to help out. I haven't met a victim of a burglary who wished anyone dead as a result. Would she have felt better if someone killed the perpetrator?

 

[oldfart]

Why would he not dispose of the tape?

I'm starting to feel like he was having trouble making ends meet, so thought he'd get four hots and a cot or whatever they say.

No, serial killers always take a trophy. The tape was his trophy. He wanted the world to know what he had done; he was very proud of it.

 

[oldfart]

I have been reading these stories since it happened and the media is going overboard to paint this guy as a whacko and these two as a young couple who just made a little mistake that all young people do. Really? All young people break into homes and rob people?

No, most people do not break into homes and steal. People who do are criminals. To me that is not a "little mistake".

The media painted this guy as a "whacko" because he is a psychotic killer. Normal people do not commit stone-cold execution style slayings and make tapes of the kill shot as a souvenir.

 

[Cowman]

I have been reading these stories since it happened and the media is going overboard to paint this guy as a whacko and these two as a young couple who just made a little mistake that all young people do. Really? All young people break into homes and rob people?

No, most people do not break into homes and steal. People who do are criminals. To me that is not a "little mistake".

The media painted this guy as a "whacko" because he is a psychotic killer. Normal people do not commit stone-cold execution style slayings and make tapes of the kill shot as a souvenir.

And then go on a long monologue à la Taxi Driver.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the jury came to the right conclusion

guilty life without parole

Byron Smith gets life sentence for murdering two Little Falls teens | Star Tribune

They may have come to the only conclusion they could, given the evidence they were presented, but I'm still not convinced it was "justice."

ambush is not self defense

it is premeditation

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jesus Christ.

I just listened to the audio. Horrifying.

Dude sounds like he was itching for a double homicide via home invasion. Like he planned for it and enjoyed it while it was happening.

The way he basically approached everything calmly, sardonically. He knew he had full control of the situation, and executed them needlessly... and even took pleasure in it, especially given his monologue about them being trash and shit, and doing his civic duty.

I swear, it sounds like the sorts of scenarios I've heard from some conservatives, when they talk about what they'll do to someone who breaks into their home.

That dude was ******* PSYCHOTIC. That was a pre-planned execution. He envisioned it. He planned it. He SAVORED every moment of it. All he had to do, was wait for someone to break into his home, which I wouldn't be surprised if he made more enticing so his moment would come.

Jury saw as much too.

Like he planned for it

not "like" he planned for it

he did plan it

-he prepared comfortable position to hide

-had snacks and water

-a book to read while he waited

-had tarps prepared for the "mess"

 

[Againsheila]

I don't know how someone can listen to that tape and think he wasn't getting a kick out of it, not someone who feared for his life, and not someone who simply had enough courage to defend himself. This man was oozing enthusiasm from the sounds of the audio clip.

Like I said, I wouldn't doubt it for a second if that man was trying to lure people into breaking into his house.

Well, I didn't listen to the tape. My hearing isn't all that good anyway. To me, it doesn't matter what he did, they still broke into HIS home. He didn't go looking for them, they came to him. You don't find it interesting that the judge refused to allow the kids records in the trial? This was not their first time. It may not have even been their first time breaking into HIS has. They knew there was a camera and they still broke into his house. These kids weren't afraid of anything. I think the parents who are crying about their "potential" are self delusional. The kids only potential that I can see was to be life long criminals.

I'm still thinking temporary insanity. I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. It probably would have been a hung jury as I can't get past the fact that they broke into HIS home. IMO, when you break into someone's home, you've given up any rights you have as you are set on taking away someone else's rights.